(Troper Project) Dystropia

I believe in game theory, the only way to defeat a perfect player is to act like a dumbass and make moves that are incredibly fucking retarded.

Would this be applicable here?

x4 MY CREYS

I'm dying.

edited 24th Aug '11 1:19:08 PM by Tre

I'd sorta like to see Tre's dude become our game's obligatory Schrödinger Fu user. The one with the really weird, half-improvised moveset, you know? Could be fun.

Is there anything else Tre could do?

...Throw various Mall based objects at the enemy?

...Summon secuirty, maybe?

Wicksburg is initially an all-rounder character, having nothing terribly unique about his attacks. He has a crudely-fashioned bonesaw with three different attacks (one being quick but weak, one being the opposite, and one that's a balance between the other two) and a tranquilizer crossbow that causes a somewhat prolonged stun if it hits. When his Super Meter is full, he can inject himself with crazy steroids that turn him into a Glass Cannon, making him and his attacks faster while decreasing his already lower-than-average Defense.

Sounds fitting.

Aah, so we're discarding MUGEN for the engine? I'm guiltily relieved, as I'm still pretty much a complete nubcakes in that regard, though it kinda sucks that most of the burden's now on you, Blackmoon. What kind of graphics etc. programs are compatible with Python, anyway?

*shrug* Graphics are compatible with Python. Though I think when we get a sprite artist to work on things here, I'm going to set up a style guide for them and request they work in .PNG format, but I have to see how well that works out first.

Alright, peeps, let's discuss some game mechanics.

First off: controls. I'm going to be working under the assumption of an eight-button controller + directional buttons; the reason for this is it's compact, but diverse on a keyboard, and it'll serve as a good exercise to see if I can port controls to a joystick, which I plan to use my USB SNES controller to test. So, we can assume the buttons will be D-Pad, Select, Start, X, Y, B, A, and the L/R shoulder buttons.◊ On the keyboard, I'm thinking those would be arrow keys, spacebar, Enter, WASD, and Q/E respectively. I'll also see if I can't go about setting an option for users to remap those keys to their liking in-game, so don't fuss over the particulars, but I'll be using the XABY/LR config just for example purposes.

The way I see it is that we've got two big configuration options to work with, broadly speaking. The first:

And the second:

Now, keep in mind, these are just placeholder names— "Strong Punch" is basically shorthand for "a stronger, slower upper-body attack", for instance. I'm also open to other control configurations, since some of those buttons might be redundant. The purpose of the "Special" buttons segues into my next point, though.

Game mechanics. We already know there'll be really basic fighting game stuff— health meters, super meters for characters that need/can use them, combo strings, and special attacks done through button combinations (I demand someone, possibly Tre, have a generic "Hadouken"-style attack with the QCF+Punch input). What we don't know, and haven't discussed in-depth, is whether we want there to be anything special for this. For instance, the Last Blade series had one of their buttons assigned to "Deflect", which would parry most basic sword attacks and leave the enemy open; Guilty Gear had the Dust button, which was a universal command that set someone up for an aerial combo string; BlazBlue had the Drive button, being another attack button that did something character-specific, like ICE CARZ or a counterattack.

What I'm thinking— and bear in mind, this is just a suggestion— would be that we go with the first button layout I demonstrated up above, with Special 1 linked to something like a parry attack, something defensive like that, and Special 2 linked to a Guilty Gear-esque universal combo-starter (which would be hilariously redundant for Siegfried, but maybe we could make it work.)

Now, I'm open to suggestions and practically begging for open discussion... but I'm a little concerned I just spewed a whole bunch of fucking gibberish, so please, if you have any questions, ask me and I'll try to clarify my thoughts.

edited 26th Aug '11 8:51:53 PM by Blackmoon

I think I like the first one better, but the second one also sounds good for more special attacks and might make more sense on a PC.

I'm liking the second button map more, if only because it more closely resembles Blaz Blue. I think the characters are too diverse to separate attacks by punch/kick separations, given that so few of them are purely unarmed. Most of them have weapons or something supernatural at their disposal, so I prefer a more highly abstracted concept behind the attack keys. Weak/Medium/Strong/Special is good, methinks.

I'd probably do it like so:

Special 1 — Common combo finisher for stronger moves and generally the go-to button for power gauge abilities.

Special 2 — Block. Timed correctly, auto-counter? I like the idea of combining the bind for block and counter in any case. In terms of general gameplay, it means attacks can be more easily retreated from, but such actions leave you open.

Special 3 — Activate Trope power?

What should we make the special functions, anyway? I do sort of like the idea of having a combined block/parry button; I was originally going to go by fighting game standard and make holding the "back" button your default block, but this would, I suppose, open us up to the possibility of having a moving block, not to mention adding in the use of a directional button for a parry of some sort, Soul Calibur style.

The idea of putting one of the buttons as a universal combo component is also appealing, though I'm divided as to whether it should go at the beginning or end. On the one hand, if we use it as the combo starter, à la Guilty Gear's Dust button, we could make it, say, have a quick, easy-to-block attack assigned to it that can link into longer strings with more variance depending on which attack buttons you press. On the other, if we use it as a finisher, maybe it could be just a character-specific "flavor" attack that ends combos, like a string-oriented Drive button. It would link to Siegfried's Master Strikes, or set off Furiko's Witch Time Kairos mode, or one of Milos' gun attacks or something. Using the button to end your combo would be strictly optional, but there would be some sort of benefit to doing it occasionally, like increased knockback or using a special attack if you have enough super meter.

What else can we assign to a button?

Whether it begins or ends a combo could be character-specific, perhaps? Depending on their needs. Siegfried, for instance, would use it at the end of combos to initiate the Master Strike components. Seino might use it at the beginning of a sequence after generating gauge power to slow time. And so on and so forth.

As for the parry thing-versus-block thing, it would be good because it's another source of character variance. What if your dude had a more generous amount of parry time after clicking the block button and could start combos from the parry where everyone else only gets the initial counter? Other characters might get more or less parry time as well, depending on how they work.

We need a button for the active Trope powers, if we choose to use them.

Ah! I totally forgot about those. We talked about them so long ago. I forget, was everyone on board with that idea? Did we decide?

I thiiiink there was general agreement on the subject.

I just remember there being some vague discussion, which was quickly stemmed off by, "Whoa, hold your horses, we don't even know if we can do that yet."

... I think we should roll with it. <_<

I'm inclined to think so too, but... well, on two conditions.

1) We work out a system in which it would be interesting and flavorful to use, and not feel just sorta tacked-on.

2) Nobody thinks of anything better we could do.

At least for story mode, we could have the Trope context-specific for the current moment in the plot, with free-selection options at other times.

Hmm. Make it sorta like a combination of Cutscene Power to the Max as far as fights in story mode are concerned, with a bit of Crisis Core's "Heightened emotions have affected the DMW!"? That might be something.

We'd have to work out what tropes we'd want, and pare the selection down so that it's enough for some variety, but not enough to totally bog someone down.

My two personal goals for this game, from a design standpoint, are to make things diverse and interesting enough, in a Smash Bros-y sorta way, to avoid Complacent Gaming Syndrome, and to make things simple enough for people who've never played a game like this to get into it but rich enough that experienced gamers don't deride it for being a cheap hack job.

Yeah, one thing that could risk it becoming prone to Complacent Gamer Syndrome is diversity. I know it happens with Blaz Blue, for instance. Sometimes, a game is actually too much for its players. As for hack job, I think we're already avoiding that nicely in core game design... primarily through the potential diversity.

... I sense a problem brewing. xD

We want it diverse, but not too diverse. Enough variety for things to not get stale and keep people from falling into a rut; not so much variety that people just get overwhelmed and never move out of their comfort zone. We're not gonna be able to put an exact cap on that when it's just theoretical, like, "Okay, people aren't going to want more than [x] characters with [y] moves and [z] stages, so we'll top it off there." It's gonna be one of those things we'll have to feel out carefully and try and reach a consensus on. Intuition, you know?

Yeah, which is why I like the second control scheme better. It allows for more narrative abstraction in terms of how the individual fighters battle, but allowing us to keep common factors between the inputs.

One thing I almost certainly wanna avoid is to make design and programming space for a mechanic that's too arcane for most people to ever actually use. I've never fucking used a Roman cancel in Guilty Gear; I never bothered using a Soul Crush or Critical Finish in Soul Calibur 4; wavedashing was a little too complex for me to give a shit about using while playing Melee casually.

So we'll just sidestep all that sorta stuff if possible, I think.

Out of all of those, I think all I ever used was wave-dashing (it was awesome).

But yeah, let's avoid doing straight-up weird shit like that.