General Mario Thread

@Edits: But how can they move on? As much as I prefer the exploration-based style of 3D Mario, the series has been versatile enough to move between exploration and linearity and still achieve critical, commercial, and public success.

But how do you do something like that for 2D Mario? It has always been "make precise jumps to get to end" from the days of SMB1 to now. Making a Metroidvania? That would just be making a Metroid game without a gun.

There are lots of 2D platformers out there. From Nintendo we have the exploration focused Yoshi series and the best-em up Kirby franchise. Nintendo could figure out something if they tried. Alternatively they could create some sort of central gimmick like they sometimes do with Zelda. Gravity manipulation is one example, albeit already done by Galaxy.

Waxing: You didn't read the part where I said that the gameplay can stay the same. They could make a Mario game that plays like almost any other 2D game, but instead of taking place in the Mushroom Kingdom, it could take place in, say, for example, I dunno, Conflagration Violent. The lineup of worlds could be grassland-mining-candyland-circus-Wutai-wacklyland-military, there could be some new enemies and maybe bringing back those that are rarely present even in the spin-offs (like Flurries or Pansers). There could be new powerups, like a Seal (to swim underwater), a Lighning (to shoot electricity) or a Potato (to hide underground from large enemies).

Of course, having one or two Metroidvania levels would be interesting as Gimmick Levels. The fact that there have already been levels like this in the Yoshi games provides a potential frame of reference.

Being a sequel doesn't mean being tied to the same setting or gimmick...at worst it just means keeping an aesthetic and game-play.

The Galaxy games are a bad example because the title is tied to the gimmick, so you actually can't change it.

NSMB has an established formula...so it can't be retooled now. New 2D series it is.

Well, New Super Luigi U did change things up some with the brisker levels and such. Of course that was DLC, so it couldn't deviate too much.

It also suffers from the frankly kinda dull look of NSMB.

"Being a sequel doesn't mean being tied to the same setting or gimmick...at worst it just means keeping an aesthetic and game-play."

Except the NSMB game have been tied to the same setting and gimmicks. How is it that SMB 2 was set in Subcon, SMB 3 in multiple kingdoms, SML in Sarasaland, SMW in Dinosaur Land and SML 2 in Mario Land, yet all NSMB games have been set in Mushroom Kingdom?

The Galaxy games are a bad example because the title is tied to the gimmick, so you actually can't change it.

All games have been tied to some sort of specific concept or gimmick. In SM 64, you explore worlds through magical paintings while using powerups in the form of magical hats; in SMS, you're exploring a tropical island (and its worlds reflect this in one way or another; note that you have levels based on a touristic hotel, an amusement park, a harbor, a mountain village, etc.) and you're using a water device known as FLUDD; in SMG (like you said) you're in outer space and have to deal with the effects of gravity in each level; in 3DL, you're playing 2D-style levels in a 3D environment. Note how each of these games, despite sharing the core essence of the franchise, approach it in its own way. And also note that only 64 and 3D Land take place in the Mushroom Kingdom, so in the other games you're elsewhere. And so will Odyssey.

"NSMB has an established formula...so it can't be retooled now. New 2D series it is."

Yeah, no, I disagree with this. I don't want to live in a future where, despite the 3D games renewing their skin from time to time, the 2D ones are nothing but retreads of the NSMB style.

edited 22nd Jan '17 5:32:45 PM by MyFinalEdits

There are fans of 2D Mario, there are fans of 64-style 3D Mario, and then there's me, who thinks the more linear 3D Mario games like Galaxy and 3D World are the best of the bunch. It's a lonely life, because nearly all other Mario fans on the internet agree that the series needs to move away from that exact style.

I think you misunderstood that last point...unfortunate, that's the downside of the 2D Mario games having "New" in the title.

I meant a whole new series of 2D Mario games...

Actually I think you misunderstood all my points, but I've already only addressed the last one.

edited 22nd Jan '17 6:16:32 PM by randomness4

I think you mean new 2D Mario games that aren't necessarily part of a series. Games that are no more related to one another than Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and Yoshi's Island.

Recent 2D Mario games. They're connected alright, via aesthetic, collectables, World progression, and level tropes...

I indeed got the wrong context of the word "New" in your post. My apologies.

But Mario's the type of series where gameplay is everything, as opposed to being a AAA mix of gameplay, aesthetics, and story.

So if the gameplay will stay the same, what's the point of making another 2D Mario series if it will just be NSMB in all but name?

The focus may be on gameplay but that doesn't mean the other things don't matter at all. Some aesthetic variety would be nice.

edited 22nd Jan '17 6:39:38 PM by Perseus

Same as when they made Super Mario World after raising the bar with Super Mario Bros. 3. It had many of the things seen in the former without feeling like its equivalent of Lost Levels, because it actually bothered to shown its own novelties. In turn, Super Mario Land 2 was in many ways a handheld amalgamation of Super Mario Bros. 3 and World'', but also added a more open-ended approach to the overworld map (you only needed to clear the first level first, and from there you could tackle the different parts of Mario Land in any order), as well as settings that up until there hadn't been seen yet. And while it didn't need to do it at all, it also had the bonus of having a Final Boss other than Bowser.

Certainly, a game that plays similar to the existing games while shaking up the rest is, at the very least, a more decent effort at keeping the 2D style fresh than a series of games that play, look and sound similar to each other. So even if it's "NSMB in all but the name", it's less blatant than having yet another rehash of a game that openly admits it's nothing new in any sort of way (unless you think the coinfest gimmick of NSMB 2 can be considered a sufficient difference....).

Exactly.

edited 22nd Jan '17 6:45:52 PM by MyFinalEdits

I think Nabbit and the slightly more secret exit filled NSMBU is more of a difference.

Maybe NSMBU and NSMB2 should've been a joint project after all, they had some ideas that could've made a single game fresh enough.

edited 22nd Jan '17 6:50:06 PM by randomness4

I don't remember if I've said this before, but a dynamic camera like the one from Kirby 64 would be nice.

But that would mean making actual 3D ground and obstacles...

Is that a problem? Nintendo has the budget and the talent. Look at something like Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, or The Subspace Emissary if you want a more low-key example. 2D gameplay in a lush 3D setting.

That should've been the case to begin with...but the NSMB games just uses flat pre-rendered objects.

That's some cheap blabel.

I'd be fine with it if the use of color wasn't so uncharacteristically reserved.

Seriously, a NSMB with more creative level design and bold use of color would be amazing.

A 2D Mario game with background hazards like in DKCR would be amazing.

I honestly don't think the new games are any less colorful than the old...

The New Super Mario Bros games, while not anywhere near Real Is Brown territory, aren't nearly as saturated as the rest of the series is, and I think that's a shame- A 2D game with an aesthetic as bright as the Super 3D games would be nifty.

Seeing how incredibly adorbs Returns and Tropical Freeze looked, I too would approve a more natural portrayal of the Marioverse in a 2D-style game.

On a different subject, it's hinted that the Shine Thief mode from Double Dash!! will return in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. That mode was incredibly fun, so i'd love to see it back.