Trope Decay: The Woobie

Going through some of the pages, it seems like there are franchises where basically every major character is listed as one (Harry Potter, Star Wars ... I mean, seriously? Chewbacca?). Couldn't we change the description to give it tighter criteria?

Good luck. This is just one of those tropes now I consider wholly lost to gushing - it's pretty much the essence of subjectivity, and I honestly don't think tightening the criteria would do any real good.

And, while I wouldn't agree with it, in theory I can see how someone might make a case that Chewbacca, at least in the Expanded Universe, is a Stoic Woobie. Which is kind of the point - there aren't a lot of characters you can't fanwank into this trope if you try hard enough.

edited 10th Jun '11 12:04:54 AM by nrjxll

It's listed as YMMV anyways.

Well The Woobie can be anyone in a series who has a sad moment which is pretty sad in of itself.

Personally I always wanted to transform this into the serious non-YMMV form of Butt-Monkey. (The Butt-Monkey trope does allow for serious examples but actual examples appearing on the pages are rare to non-existent as The Woobie is also used for that on the wiki.)

edited 10th Jun '11 5:40:49 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

I always figured the Woobie was a character who has something bad happen to them and they are affected negatively by it, but now it seems to have changed to a character who just has something bad happen to them.

Creator of the planet Vexus and DSBT Insani T.

I'm totally with Raso on this one. Don't know if it's too late or not, though. But there are a whole heck of a lot of associated/related tropes to take into consideration here.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

If we don't do something this is going to turn into People Sit On Chairs. We need a tighter definition. A woobie can't simply be defined as a character who suffers. Otherwise tropes like The Pollyanna are the same thing.

Hey, if you don't know the EU for Star Wars about Chewie's family, step off. At least a few of the things being commented on here are the simple result of Long-Runners; everyone gets a turn.

Nous restons ici.

Again, I always thought it was someone who has bad things happen to them and is affected negatively by it, not just someone who has bad stuff happen to them.

Creator of the planet Vexus and DSBT Insani T.

Is there anything new that needs to be said about this, or can we close it?

The Woobie was never "someone has something bad happen to them, and is affected negatively by it". That's just the (admittedly frequent) misuse - when it's not simply "character I feel sorry for". The Woobie is a character who plays on your nurturing and protective instincts, similarly to Moe characters (although bad things don't necessarily happen to Moe characters; those run on cuteness instead).

Then people started adding their favorite characters and competing over whose (that is, what character's) life sucked more. That was years ago. If we're going to get rid of the misuse, I think we have to just axe all the examples.

I mean, the nature of fiction is for every major character, at least on the heroic end of the equation, to have a low point in whatever arc they're undertaking. Hence, there's probably a moment where they're pretty sad, and in that case, you're supposed to sympathize or empathize with them.

This feels like it fits the definition, even still. Perhaps a narrowing of "invokes protective instincts constantly"?

edited 23rd Sep '11 10:21:05 PM by wattage

That's not a narrowing, that's the current definition. "A story with The Woobie allows the audience to vicariously experience relief from some pain by fantasizing about relieving The Woobie's pain." If it doesn't make you think "aw, I wish he were here (or I were there) so I could make him feel better", then it doesn't fit the definition of The Woobie.

Really, probably just needs an example cleanup because it's a popular trope and people like to fit their favorite examples into everything.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

This is a subjective YMMV trope. I don't think we should get to concerned over whether every example fits the definition as well as we think it should. I say leave it alone and close the thread.

edited 24th Sep '11 3:56:53 PM by Auxdarastrix

In the case of Chewbacca, it depends on how much you've read of the Expanded Universe (which is so big and with such a diversifying lot of writers that everyone ends up dragged across every trope eventually). In the films, not really.

I think this is one of those tropes that should, in an ideal world, be objective, but ends up subjective because of the non-idealness of the world.

We already have an objective version of this trope: Break the Cutie. If this we're made objective, it would be horribly redundant.

I say leave it alone. It's not being misused, it's just really subjective.

I feel basically the same way.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

This attitude is one reason I hate the YMMV ghetto.

There's no point arguing about things in YMMV. Subjective is subjective. I actually feel kinda stupid for writing this and joining the arguement. My own argument is, after all, subjective like everyone else's.

A subjective trope can(and should) have an objective definition.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

This. Otherwise, anything and everything can (and will) be listed as an example, until the trope is everything and means nothing.

edited 9th Oct '11 10:35:30 AM by Antheia

I still think it just needs an example cleanup. There's nothing wrong with the trope itself, it just collects bad examples because people like to shoehorn their favorite character/series into everything.

edited 9th Oct '11 11:26:33 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

This thread's been dead for a while now, and from what's been said so far I fail to see a problem with the trope. Can someone can prove that this is being misused in some way?

I believe the argument is that misuse is difficult to prove because the definition needs to be clarified.

Personally, I don't really care and think we're basically done here.

I can see working on this trope at some point, but not right now. When it does need work, one troper will have to spearhead the effort.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.