Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

Why are we discussing a troper who is no longer posting, seemingly with no context? Switching the discussion from a topic to a person is against the rules.

edited 25th Jan '15 3:27:42 AM by Achaemenid

It's certainly not likely to be productive, so best dropped. Let's have new discussions, not rehash old ones.

I'm sorry, everyone.

No problems

Apologies.

For a new topic, I find it very disturbing that my elder sister used to advise me that I should not get too close to friends of other races because as much as you get close to them, they will not be as close as they are to me. Then she says in lines of "barriers between races can never be crossed". I'd say this is racist because it is our own fault that we are unwilling to cross the barrier, if that is said barrier really exist. I'd say it is a subtle racism on one's own mentality. What's your take on this?

That does seem like a damaging mentality. Race barriers can be overcome, although how easily depends on the local culture. Still, even if it is hard, the mentality that it can not ever be overcome will certainly only worsen the problem.

Also, this can lead to very dickish behaviors. An anecdote my sister told me: during her time as a exchange student in the US she noticed how divided by race the student cliques were. She noticed another, tanned, Brazilian girl made friends with an African-American group, only to be shunned away by said group once her tan wore off. That girl had friends when she was perceived as 'black', but was turned down once she became "white". That is really fucked up. No mentality that supports this kind of thing can be healthy.

Yeah, racial separatism is pretty terrible.

It's understandable that people might not want to be friends with racist, insensitive people. Many black people or Asian people in America, for instance, might not want to be friends with someone who says "diet racist" type things or enable white privilege.

But separation isn't a good idea. And people of all "races" can definitely be as good as many others. And more, it's important that people of all groups do come closer together, because it spreads empathy.

Like for instance, the whole "I'm not racist, I have black friends" excuse doesn't work. You can still be racist and have friends of other "races". But it does help empathy to have friends of other races.

And people are individuals. Who have all sorts of different opinions on race and culture, even if most people tend to internalize some racists beliefs.

Racial feelings and cultural feelings can cause conflict, but they shouldn't cause separatism. A lot of those same feelings and beliefs can cause conflict with people in your own race. Like for instance, many black American men have racial preferences in dating. Some black men prefer dating black women, and some black men prefer dating white women. And it's a huge controversy for those that do. Among other black men and women, and everyone. And of course, many black men don't have racial preferences in dating.

But for those that do, it can be really controversial and make and lose friends, both in and outside of their race.

I've noticed this separation but the way it manifests, at least in my experience, is a bit odd. Now keep in mind this stuff is just what I personally have experienced.

The area I grew up in didn't have a lot of minorities but with a few exceptions the people there seemed to be fine with the minority students we did have. Outside of a few assholes they were just treated like ordinary students by everybody else.

Things changed when I went to college. I moved into a significantly more diverse area. One odd thing I noticed was that the white people that grew up in areas with more minorities, especially blacks and Latinos, seem to be more likely to be racist against them. For the most part the black and Latino people don't seem to care what race their friends are. Obviously this isn't going to be true of everyone but I do find it unusual.

The way Asian people are treated also depends a lot on where they come from. Asian Americans are treated the same as white people but for some reason it's considered acceptable to make fun of Asian International Students. Even Asian Americans will do this. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't seem to interact much with people that aren't Asian unless it's necessary but I still find the casual way they're made fun of weird.

People from the Middle East and India mostly stick with people from their country but they seem more willing to interact with non-International students. Don't ask me why. They just do.

I know my mom during her occasional lectures will remind me that while I still have my good friends I have to always keep in mind that they're white and therefore I should not fully trust them and that when the chips are down white people will stick to one another and leave me in the dust.

It's not exactly a very encouraging mindset. It almost makes me wonder sometimes if it's some subtle jab at the idea that I need to make black friends or something.

What situation does she think you'll wind up in where that will actually happen?

That's kind of sad.

I would tell them that true friendship is more important than anything else. Or at least that's what I believe.

Your friends are the people who will stick by you, not your race or any other group.

@Kostya, Hell if I know. She's the one who's been black in this country for like 50 years, she probably has a slightly better (albeit still prejudiced and narrow) grasp of this sort of thing than me.

I mean the obvious answer would be something to do with the law or something, or maybe in one of those "it's who you know" situations where in which connections matter and white people are more likely to offer spontaneous favors to other white people to help them professionally rather than their black friends?

Of course this is just conjecture at this point.

I never really got her point in full due to my lack of solidarity with the American black community. I feel more connection to people who share my hobbies and interests than anyone whose only connection to me is as flimsy as shared skin tone

edited 25th Jan '15 9:43:00 PM by MousaThe14

When I was young, a black male friend was told by his momma that he couldn't talk to me anymore because he would get in trouble. White girls were nothing but trouble.

I understand now that it wasn't me per say that had her scared, but what society could do to him. My dad was a cop. We still have lynchings here occasionally. At this time gangs violence was a problem.

I could have said something completely innocent but that doesn't mean it would be innocent for him.

So while I don't like it, I get it. I don't know any way to fix it except to continue to educate myself about African American issues, be a supportive ally for progressive actions, and keep myself available for friendship to those who may want it.

‘Irish slaves’: the convenient myth: "The conflation of indentured servitude with chattel slavery in the ‘Irish slaves’ narrative whitewashes history in the service of Irish nationalist and white supremacist causes. Its resurgence in the wake of Ferguson reflects many Americans’ denial of the entrenched racism still prevalent in their society."

"We survivors do not want our past to become our children's future."

In commemoration of the 70 years' liberation of Auschwitz, the ever dwindling number of veterans that attend to it have spoken their fears specially those regarding the latest events in France.

"Once again young Jewish boys are afraid to wear yarmulkes [skullcaps] on the streets of Paris, Budapest, London and even Berlin." said one of the survivors, Roman Kent.

The comments on that article...

Enjoyed the read though. Useful corrective.

RE Discriminate and Switch: Yeah, it feels like my friend was trying to be the straight version of Discriminate and Switch, and then he ended up subverting it because I reacted so badly.

And apparently, the professor had a gut feeling that it wouldn't end well—when he started with the various slurs, the prof said he was thinking "Oh, Crap!, you had better be going somewhere and this had better be a fucking GOOD JOKE." And then I went "NONONO" and left the room, so he called off the routine.

RE racial separatism: A lot of Americans find it okay to joke about Asian(-American)s. At least, "more okay than making fun of other minorities (like blacks or Native Americans)." There's actually been a couple of times where my friends will make mild-ish Asian jokes, and then realize that I'm still in the room. Granted, nowhere near on the level of the Asian Driver joke, but if this is what I have to put up with from friends I've known for years in a very diverse area, I'm not feeling too good about being out in the wild of theater, where people don't know me and there's a notable LACK of diversity in general.

edited 27th Jan '15 2:20:44 PM by Sharysa

Since that the thread is sort of idling, here's another issue of mine. It might not be that relevant in the Western world, though.

I find it very disturbing that Malaysian entertainment scene is racially divided. People mostly watch entertainment made by or catered to the people of the same race and the folks in the entertainment industry (aside from Shila Amzah and a few Chinese film makers who direct Malay films) does nothing to rectify this. Worse, in a very ironic twist, entertainment that unites us are of foreign origin: anime, k-pop and western films. What are your take on this?

edited 30th Jan '15 3:56:04 AM by murazrai

Yeah, for some reason a lot of people in America seem to think that it's okay to make fun of and say racist things about Asians. ... even many people who aren't okay with making fun of black people like that.. Maybe it has to do with the whole "model minority" thing. Or that some people seem to see Asians as always foreign and never American.

And Hollywood is very, very racist. Despite there being a whole lot of people who are Latino or Hispanic in America, there are almost no Hispanic people working in Hollywood. And Hollywood discriminates against Asians so much, that many Asian Americans look to work in South Korean entertainment, because Hollywood won't hire them.

Hollywood has very bad racist problems that we need to raise awareness for.

edited 30th Jan '15 6:36:39 AM by RobotPrincess

I reckon that this may have to do with the target audiences of the media in question, like say, the target audience of one movie may like "hormedies" (the comedy is not always intentional) with religious leaders being the Marty Stu who saves the day, the target audience of another movie may like a feel-good movie with an All-Star Cast, yet another target audience may like movies with extremely elaborate song and dance numbers. Unfortunately, the target audiences can all be pigeonholed into certain racial groups, and the lack of quality of these productions tends to leave them with little crossover appeal.

edited 30th Jan '15 6:20:18 AM by Krieger22

Hollywood is almost too easy a target at this point what with The Last Airbender movie, the Khan incident I never forgave them for in Star Trek Into Darkness, and the upcoming Exodus film. They're not even trying to hide that it's a prejudiced system these days.

Exodus came out before Christmas. It wasn't very good.

...but I'm guessing similar things happen outside Hollywood. Especially examples of the Token Minority.

Harpers Ferry Job Corps is a media desert. I pretty much am only able to get any news from TVT because it's one of the few places unblocked so I didn't know. Point still stands though.

That is also true and if I had more experience with the film industry of other countries I would be better able to comment on it. As such, I can only say that you are most likely very correct because hey, it's just humans.