Just for approval from villains?: Your Approval Fills Me With Shame

I was wondering about this trope, because though the description implies that it's about shame for approval from villains, this wouldn't be the only trope whose description was more specific about moral status of characters involved than the concept was; "The Reason You Suck" Speech and Now If You Will Excuse Me I Have A Noun To Verb come to mind.

Is this limited to good guys being ashamed of compliments from bad guys, is this open to anyone ashamed of anyone else's approval, or is it in between the two, and if the latter, where along the line is it?

I don't see why this should be exclusive to villains - there's plenty of other reasons why someone might be insulted by someone else's approval.

I agree that the concept extends beyond Hero/Villain interactions. There are already quite a few examples on the page (most of the Live Action TV category) that aren't Hero-Villain, just 2 people with substantially different outlooks/moral stances.

I'd say it's close enough. For the most part, it's hero-villain, but even the tropenamer is a hero-antihero kind of thing. So long as it fits the spirit of the trope, it should be fine.

Agree that it doesn't need to be hero-villain.

If someone YKTTW'd a trope about the non-villain version, I would call it out for Tropes Are Flexible and tell them to expand this trope instead.

I'm not aware of any such YKTTW.

In any case, I guess that suggest we may as well expand this one then. Any proposals for new descriptions? (I could probably come up with one myself, but it's late at night where I live. I might try tomorrow morning.)

He said "if." :) (I'm sure that's a trope too, somewhere...)

More about unlikeable characters than villains, obviously. Especially seeing as the trope namer / poster child isn't a villain.

edited 16th May '11 1:19:23 AM by Aminatep

He IS a Heroic Sociopath, though, so he is evil in a way.

I was wondering if this may as well be expanded to indignation at approval from character X for reasons other than character X actually being evil, for anything from character X being mistaken for being evil by some Knight Templar, to perhaps just someone else being so fanatical about some kind of loyalty (politics, sports, etc.) that approval from character X who has a different such loyalty would be shameful.

In any case, the current description is not fitting to such forms of it.

Original author here. I didn't intend the trope to be Hero-Villain to the exclusion of any other examples. I did write the description along the Hero-Villain line, however, since my own experience had led me to believe that the significant majority of examples involved a hero and a villain, often taking the form of Not So Different or In Love with Your Carnage. I did note in the description that it can occur in other forms, such as Hero-Anti-Hero, but I suppose it's mostly a footnote in a description that otherwise predominantly assumes Hero-Villain.

If the consensus is that the current description is too slanted in that direction, I would have no objection to it being rewritten to be more all-encompassing. I'd also be willing to do it myself if no one is up for it.

edited 8th Jul '11 2:37:13 PM by arimnaes

"If the consensus is that the current description is too slanted in that direction, I would have objection to it being rewritten to be more all-encompassing." - arimnaes

Even though the rest of your post seemed to be arguing otherwise?

Edited. You forget one little "no" and the entire meaning of your sentence changes.

In my opinion is clear enough that the trope applies whenever it's someone the Hero detests the one showing admiration for whatever the Hero has just done, be it a Villain, a nasty Anti-Hero or even the maths professor that always grounded him for petty things. Also Belkar would fit in the Villain category more than any other, he's just a Villain Co-Protagonist that kills people just for kicks, he isn't more evil because the Order keep him in check, not because he doesn't want. He was more than ready to betray Haley when they were in La Résistance in Azure City, he didn't do so because he didn't realize he could.

But even then there are examples where it's an Anti-Hero instead of a Villain the one praising the hero, so I don't see a reason for the trope being repaired.

edited 19th Jul '11 5:52:57 AM by DrMcNinja

Bump

So... is this trope in need of fixing or not? I don't think so, but do people think the same?

It looks to have been a minor point of confusion that was fixed.

Resolved, locking.