What IS this?: Megaphone Hanging

There appear to be two problems with the article "Megaphone Hanging".

The first is the name. Take a wild guess as to what it means, and you'd probably be wrong. The name appears to be a snowclone of Lampshade Hanging, but I'm not sure why because the trope has little to do with lampshading.

The second is the content. Basically, the article means "a Shout-Out that's so subtle that most people wouldn't know that it is one". That doesn't strike me as a trope, but instead as an arbitrary and subjective variation on Shout-Out.

I'd say some merging is in order, what do other people think?

The Megaphone Hanging is a little Shout-Out that Hangs A Lampshade on the borrowing of some themes or tropes or the underlying cinematic connection with a previous work.

And the title was chosen by the TRS earlier, when it was renamed from Pink Bunny Slippers.

edited 12th May '11 9:47:56 AM by EternalSeptember

Being renamed once doesn't necessarily grant exemption from future discussion/renames.

For one, how exactly does a "megaphone" correlate with something "subtle"? Megaphones are about as subtle as dropping an anvil.

edited 12th May '11 10:02:01 AM by Stratadrake

So it's a Homage Shot with a Lampshading to a similarly themed work?

That... seems like a legitimate trope. I.. am going to go on record and say I am not a fan of the name Megaphone Hanging, but since I am FAIR TO ALL, I say we give it the benefit of the doubt and run it through the Trope Renaming Guidelines before I start campaigning for the much more reasonable and parsable Homage Lampshade. :P

I'm gathering that Megaphone Hanging is a title that was come up with here on the wiki and not a preexisting term, so really the thing to prove here is 'is the title broken'.

Megaphone Hanging found in: 27 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 27 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

Seems like it could go either way. I am not really in a position to check the wicks to see if there's misuse. How long has this page been around? 27 could be a pretty terrible count if it's been on the wiki for a while.

edited 12th May '11 10:15:35 AM by savage

It was renamed how long ago? And it still only has 27 wicks and inbounds? Huh, that's pretty weak.

I agree that Pink Bunny Slippers is a worse name, but that doesn't mean that this is a good name. Indeed, associating "subtle" with "megaphone" doesn't work well.

Also: Lampshading basically means to point out the use of a trope. Asking a character to take either the Red Pill or the Blue Pill is a Shout-Out to The Matrix, and a Lampshade Hanging would be to point that out (such as here). On the other hand, subtly referencing the Matrix again (e.g. by calling the character Anderson), which is what this article refers to, is not actually lampshading.

I don't think 'Megaphone' was supposed to evoke subtlety, I think someone tried to make a 'clever' title that had a reference to Lampshade Hanging and Shout-Out, associating megaphones with shouting and being somewhat lampshade-shaped, and I think got too caught up in their own cleverness to realize that what they'd come up with was still opaque as hell.

This trope would be more like if there was a work that had similar 'what is reality' themes to The Matrix and a character made an offhand remark about spoon-bending, or had a scene which was a Shout-Out to The Matrix (like having a character reflected in another's sunglasses). Basically, a Shout-Out that points out an inspiration for the work.

I would also like to know how long ago this was renamed and when it was first launched. I'm sure there's a way to look that up but uh... I don't know it. -.-

edited 12th May '11 11:18:37 AM by savage

The name was changed in June of 2010 from Pink Bunny Slippers. The thread is gone, but the Alternative Names crowner is still here. and it's a whopping one vote in favor and none in opposition. and only one name was suggested at all. The Page Action Crowner is a little bit better: it's here, and the winning option ("Rename to Megaphone Hanging (it's Hanging A Lampshade on a Shout Out)") was at 6 in favor to 2 opposed. Not very strong support there either, but technically a 3:1 ratio of approval to disapproval.

edited 12th May '11 12:50:59 PM by Madrugada

Well, if nothing else at least the Page Action crowner explains the logic behind the name: "Megaphone" as in "shout out".

Too bad for no previous thread, we can't calculate a rate of increase in # wicks or inbounds since then.

edited 12th May '11 12:56:00 PM by Stratadrake

Well, the redirect was made new at that time, so all of the inbounds for Megaphone Hanging are new. Pink Bunny Slippers only has 8 inbounds.

The wicks are fuzzier, because wicks may (and almost certainly were) have been changed; Pink Bunny Slippers only has two; one on the Megaphone Hanging page and one on the troper page for the guy who made it. That, to me indicates that wicks were switched over when the redirect was made.

Okay, is there a rule against proposing a rename of a page that was previously renamed eleven months ago?

No. If the name still isn't working, it still needs to be fixed.

Right. Then Megaphone Hanging has 27 - 8, or 19 inbounds to call its own. A rather average-low number. Google gives it an even lower score, <1,000 results for the exact phrase (obviously dominated by TV Tropes pages, including this very thread).

BTW, is it just me or does Megaphone Hanging read like "Shout-Out But More Subtle"?

edited 12th May '11 2:06:31 PM by Stratadrake

Okay, I think I need to say something about this here. I think the stuff about it being subtle needs to go. Subtlety isn't the core of this trope, and I DO see what this trope is supposed to be (I think) but that is obscuring it for at least some people in this THREAD so it probably needs a rewrite too.

This is the trope: Work X is an established work from the past. Work Y is a newer work with similar themes. The people who made Work Y want to acknowledge Work X as an inspiration (and, from a more cynical point of view, maybe defuse people who might call it a ripoff). They put a reference to Work X in Work Y, using a Shout-Out to lampshade the similarities between their work and the older work.

This doesn't have to be subtle at all, and I have the feeling that may be a bit of a myopic view of the trope. You don't have to do this with subtlety any more than any other Shout-Out has to be subtle.

The trope name is bad, the description is a little obtuse, but the examples themselves seem fairly solid. Note the Watchmen example under comics, it's a fairly perfect example of the trope in action.

edited 12th May '11 2:40:51 PM by savage

Agree 100%.

That part isn't even supposed to be part of the core definition, it's just casually mentioned in the second paragraph that these are "usually less obvious than a Shout-Out".

It was only the thread OP who misinterpreted it and put too much emphasis on that.

BTW, according to the Wick page, 27 wicks are "Healthy".

edited 12th May '11 2:43:16 PM by EternalSeptember

27 is not healthy for a trope that's been around for a year, especially since I could think of plenty of examples of this trope, probably without even trying.

Here, let's brainstorm a few:

Bubblegum Crisis has several (rather blatant, since let's just keep on trashing on the 'doesn't have to be subtle' theme :P) references to Blade Runner, it is also a cyberpunk story about rogue A.I.s on Earth and the people who hunt them.

Indiana Jones' iconic costume is more or less straight lifted from Stewart Granger's depiction of Allan Quatermain in the version of King Solomons Mines he played in link◊

There's quite a few of these in Dragon Ball, if you know Journey To The West, which it was based upon.

This also happens a -lot- with anything that touches on Biblical stories.

That's just off the top of my head. This page should be a -lot- more jumping than it is.

edited 12th May '11 2:56:12 PM by savage

I don't yet get how what makes this different from an ordinary Shout-Out.

If it's Shout-Out + Lampshade Hanging... okay, but how it can be "subtle" at all if it's lampshaded, i.e. got a big glowing sign with arrow attached to it?

edited 12th May '11 7:04:17 PM by TBeholder

I thought it was a Shout-Out to another work that was in some way an inspiration or predecessor to the work doing the Megaphone Hanging. (So, a subtrope of Shout-Out.)

A Lampshade Hanging doesn't have to be obvious. It certainly doesn't have to be "a big glowing neon sign". It simply is an acknowledgment within the work.

And the fact that Indiana Jones' outfit is inspired by Alan Quatermains's isn't lampshaded at all. It's a shout-out, and a Genius Bonus for the audience, but there's no point at which anyone in the work comments on it or does anything to indicate that they know it's a shout out to Quatermain.

His outfit is directly copied from the one worn by Stewart Grainger in King Solomon's Mines: Shout-Out

Some one says to him, "Geez, you dress like some pulp hero-adventurer." Lampshade Hanging

Some one comments "I saw that same outfit in King Solomon's Mines." Lampshade Hanging on a Shout-Out.

edited 12th May '11 7:50:05 PM by Madrugada

Except that doesn't fit the given trope definition at all.

"[...]as it's usually just a choice of name and/or props. Only those familiar with the original "borrowing" are likely to notice the Megaphone Hanging, or at least realize the significance."

Following that is an example given of Lucas using background chatter from another movie that was an inspiration for Star Wars -in- Star Wars. By the above definition Indiana Jones dressing like Granger's Quatermain counts (and given the writer was George Lucas, was probably an attempt to do the same thing again).

The work itself doesn't have to loudly lampshade the fact that Indy is dressed like Quatermain to make it this trope (because... the only major examples of doing THAT I can think of are Seltzer And Friedberg movies... "I'm Dressed like Allan Quatermain! Get it?"). The important thing is that it's a nod to the original work placed in the later work -to acknowledge the similarities- between the works, or to -tip their hat to an inspiration-.

It's a specific subtrope of Shout-Out to draw a line between two works for people who've seen both. The similarity to Lampshade Hanging is in that it's acknowledging something about the media they're emulating.

It's not a Lampshaded Shout-Out, it's a Shout-Out which IS a Lampshade.

edited 13th May '11 7:25:29 AM by savage

Tropes Are Flexible. Expand the description.

...The example Madrugada gave was a lot more limited than the one I'm giving. Did you read anything but the first sentence I wrote?

Yes, I did. You were complaining that the trope description does not cover what she said, and cited the offending part of the description. I said that you should expand the description, rather than exile what could be a good example.

@Fox and @Savage: Come to think of it, I have only ever heard Lampshade Hanging used in humorous/parodic contexts. Let me check...

Hmm, the current definition of Lampshade Hanging actually does require the writer to make it obvious, i.e. make the audience explicitly aware of its presence. If it's something subtle that only studious audience members will ever notice, that's not the definition, it's not a hanging.

edited 13th May '11 8:50:43 AM by Stratadrake