Too many threads about trivial details.

Greets, Writer's Block.

I notice that there a lot of threads about really shallow sorts of things, like the details of a character's appearance or the system by which magic works or the make of a character's weapon. Stuff like that.

While I agree that all those things are delicious, they're like the icing on a cake. Too many young writers here seem to think they're the extremely important details and so we leave each other with concepts that look cool in our heads without knowing much about plot, character development or themes.

Those are the really important, interesting parts of any book. They're also the most difficult. But if you don't put effort into those things, you end up with the sort of material that would at best rival a lame action movie.

Remember: in any great work of narrative, the action exists to provide tension. That only happens when the writer has given us something to emotionally invest in to begin with.

Sincere apologies if this sound condescending, but I've noticed way too much emphasis on shallow elements on this forum and it's doing no-one any good whatsoever.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

I believe that I'm the guiltiest one. Sorry...

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

I believe it is time to suggest putting new subsections for us writers. And put notices (like in OTC, Yack Fest) what this section is all about.

This might sound arrogant, but it's those trivial details that give me the most trouble. I have complete confidence in the big picture, it's the brand of gun X should be using that I have no clue about.

Read my stories!

I feel as though little questions like those belong in one of our two general help threads rather than in their own thread.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

We should probably also do more to distinguish between this forum and writers block, and enforce those differences. Many people post threads in Writer's Block that should be in world building deliberately since this place gets more attention.

This is a signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

I'm probably the most guilty of this.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.

<Mod Hat ON>

Look, the purpose of this section is to have a place for folks who are writing something to ask questions , get feedback and talk about writing. The same overall rules apy here as anywhere else on the forums: If you aren't interested in what a thread is about, you don't have to read it and you don't have to post in it, and if you post in it simply to state that you don't see the point, you can expect to be warned not to do so again.

If you aren't interested in threads about what you consider "trivial details", don't bother to read them. You should be able to tell from the OP, (if you can't tell from the thread title) whether it's going to be about something that you don't consider worth your time to read and respond to.

It's really that simple.

And no, there are no plans to subdivide the Writer's Block and World-building forums into smaller, more precise areas.

<Mod Hat OFF>

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I don't think subdividing the existing forums would be useful, since neither of them move fast enough to warrant it. If we cut them up into even smaller pieces, then those new forums would all slow to a crawl.

Nemo enim fere saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit Deviantart.

I've noticed people start to question the quality of thread creations here, starting with Leradny's Guide to Getting Feedback, and continuing on with Differentiating Between Writer's Block and World Building. This thread included, I imagine you may notice a trend of some dissatisfaction with this forum.

Writer's Block, as a forum, has much a diversity of threads in relation to OTC (part of Realish Stuff), or with Role-Playing and the Media threads. We have threads ranging from the conceptual like "How Chaotic Neutral should this character be?" and Post your Idea for a Villain and A New Mythos (this one I feel would fit more with World Building) to character role-playing, to writing itself, to finished works like AFGNCAPP's serial. It is like a jumbled mix of soup — of some of which ingredients have been randomly picked under a blindfold. What is commonplace will influence what people decide to do/post. (A principle learned from Sociology 101.)

From these descriptions taken from About the Forums — "Feeling Creative?" does not tell us what World Building helps tropers with. I think you mean to help create aspects of their imaginary world, whether a Fantasyland, futureworld, or for a Speculative piece in general. Questions in Writer's Block, like Powers for a Magical Girl Detective and How do I shot laser beams? would find better answers over there.

Likewise, from the description of Writer's Block — "Where writers join and chat. You'll find tips, suggestions and feedback for your own writings." It seems people have taken liberties as to what this means.

In addition, Writer's Block and World Building lack pinned guidelines and important utility threads (Critiques, anyone?) whereas the other forums do.

So with what I've mentioned already, I think there is little doubt as to why some cry out dissatisfaction. The anomie of the Creative Writing forums, where people have little idea what they can do here. And why threads exist in need of feedback (You'll find tips, suggestions and feedback for your own writings.) — such as when people do post a finished excerpt of their writings, and they receive no meaningful response whatsoever.

edited 3rd Apr '11 5:20:26 PM by QQQQQ

Maddy, I think you're missing the point.

This isn't me bitching out. I do tend to ignore threads I don't want to post in. At the same time, though, it's difficult to ignore the frequency with which these threads pop up, which says a lot about the attitude towards writing in this forum.

In brief, this isn't "Stop it guys, this is annoying", it's "Your priorities are wrong and it's going to harm your writing".

But can you tell me why the brand of gun matters? If it doesn't carry any significance, you may as well pull it from a hat or just choose your favourite.

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:53:14 PM by MadassAlex

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

By what I could get, this isn't the place to ask if I should take a certain direction in my writing, but... Well, it isn't as specific as asking about a certain brand or something.

Still, it makes me feel as if I were one of the people (to put it bluntly)making useless threads. So an area for minor details would be nice, I guess.

The issue isn't exactly querying about minor details — it's the emphasis put on them.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

It is not your place to police the writers of this forum.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

Hum... Then maybe, a thread for minor details? And would topics like "how would one react to ________" count as such topics?

I kind of have trouble understanding how people think and feel, so I kind of need these topics, and I don't think I'm the only one.

^^ This. You write the way you write. You're in no position to tell other people that they're doing it wrong, just because they're working differently than you do. Yes, there are more than a few threads that I've looked at and simply shaken my head in dismay. But I don't have to read those threads, and I don't have to read what the people who make those threads write, either.

Megathreads have their place, but very few people are going to read through a 20- or 50- or 500-page megathread on "Little details" looking to see if theirs has been asked already.

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:54:17 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Questions about the big picture fall under this. Questions about details also fall under it. They can coexist.

How does one cold read a writer's priorities from seeing them ask a question about the make of a sword? I don't see how it can be done. Maybe they're like AHR and have the big stuff all worked out already, but they're just not talking about it because it's not the issue.

A person's approach to writing is their own business. You concentrate on improving your own, and other people can do it their own way or not at all if they want to—why care what they do when it has nothing to do with your own writing? Their mistakes bring down no one but themselves.

edited 3rd Apr '11 8:06:35 PM by SPACETRAVEL

whoever wrote this shit needs to step on a rake in a comedic fashion

@risingdreams

Your best bet would be to think of a handful of questions you have and put them in the same thread. That also helps contextualise the questions.

@Others

There is such a thing as poor technique and structure. Different mediums have different standards for this kind of thing, but absolutely every art has its guidelines. All of them argue against focus on trivialities; a guitarist soloing for too long or without consideration for the harmony of the song, a filmmaker spending too long on superfluous effects shots, a martial artist practising flashy but nonfunctional moves and a writer fretting over the minor details of exciting elements are all essentially the same thing. They're wasted effort on non-contributive elements. Just look at My Immortal, where we get paragraphs of trivial detail about character appearance and the like. The same basic issue is at work here.

I'm not arrogant enough to tell people how they should write. I haven't done that, either. What I've done is explained how it shouldn't be done. Just like there are ways not to draw a picture, make a movie or write a song, there are methods that are poorly conductive to good writing.

But I'm not here to "police" people's writing. I don't have the time nor inclination to commit myself to that — which is why I created a thread bringing up a common issue I've observed across the forum. In any case, I get the feeling that you dislike my tone rather than my advice. If I'm wrong in that, though, you're probably better off discussing with me where the flaws are in my thinking than anything else.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

I'm not sure how you expect us to read "I've noticed way too much emphasis on shallow elements on this forum and it's doing no-one any good whatsoever." as anything except "You're doing it wrong!" Your OP is full of negatively loaded words, like "shallow" and "trivial"; and a presumption that because people aren't asking here about other things that they aren't concerned with them.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I created the General Writer's Block Thread for stuff like that, little details that I didn't want to create new threads for. Doesn't seem to be very active though.

A similar one: Random Questions

There's also Quickie Questions in Yack Fest.

We can try pinning the General Writer's Block thread, as well as the critique thread(s) here.

I'm still curious about why one ought to care about the writing approaches of other people if one is not reading their work or willingly working with them.

whoever wrote this shit needs to step on a rake in a comedic fashion

@Maddy

I'll apologise for my tone, but not my opinion. In fact, I forsaw that and apologised in the OP. So if you've got further criticisms, please aim them at the school of thought I present.

For the record, I love going through trivial details in my head. But I recognise how trivial they are, and how little an audience will care about them. The issue at hand is one of relevance, and one of the most important elements of any narrative is how the author delivers information.

And ultimately, I can only comment on what I can directly observe, so that's all I do. Not once have I insulted a writing style at large or any individual troper; I've just criticised the emphasis on some types of information. That in no way means that I have a narrow perspective on what consitutes good writing — I just know what doesn't tend to work when writing for an audience. All rules can be broken, but an author has to understand the purpose of those rules in the first place.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

I think I know where you're getting at.. that people seem to focus on the micro, more than the macro. They care more about the world and little tidbits more than what drives their story. We're not criticizing the quality of other people's works or their threads, but that this seems to be an unhealthy trend going on recently. I feel this especially for young, new writers trying this gig for the first time.

edited 3rd Apr '11 9:29:07 PM by QQQQQ

^

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch