Desperately needs cleanup: Shout Out

The Shout-Out pages and entries need some cleanup and regulation. The problem is Fan Myopia-affected editors adding entries that are more "this has similarities to my favorite show" and less "the show actively made a reference to it."

An example, drawn from the Blazblue shout out page:

Having a character with vague similarities to another video game character is not a shout out.

The problem is ambiguity. It's possible that a subtle Shout-Out could be less obvious to the viewer than an unintentional similarity.

You've just stated the problem.

If you know the work making the supposed reference, it shouldn't be hard to figure out whether or not it's legit. If it's bogus, zap it.

I was gonna create a thread about this!

I have to agree there is a problem with the Fan Myopia, to fix it really needs the input of lots of tropers who know the medium to make sure each shout out listed for a certain work is intentional.

Also mentioning the ambiguity problem, but I'd err on the side of removal unless it is a completely clear shout out, not just Fan Myopia seizing on a similarity.

I love shout outs, but I agree. They have to be clear and concise. Not generic or require multiple hoops to jump through.

I'm gradually going through the main page of shout outs, removing ones I know are wrong, but there are a lot I have no idea (mainly manga/western animations).

We all do what we can.

I keep a watch on Digimon Xros Wars if it helps.

Do we have a page for Retelling a complete story? Such as Children Of Hurin being a retelling of the tale of Kullervo from The Kalevala? Or Hood Winked of Little Red Riding Hood?

On a sidenote, I'd like to see Shout-Out pages listing the references TO a work, (as in, as opposed to shout-outs made BY a work as it currently seems to be organized) not unlike the "references in popular culture" sections on some Wikipedia pages.

edited 18th May '11 2:07:15 PM by neoYTPism

Setting Update? Whole-Plot Reference?

Really, we should have distinctions for this. Off the top of my head:

• First there's "pop-culture reference". Not even worth listing as a Shout-Out. We shouldn't have to record every Cutaway Gag that Family Guy makes.
• Shout-Out: A reference to another work, but a subtle one, not one that entire audience is supposed to get. You should have to be paying attention to get a Shout-Out.
• Homage: More than a Shout-Out, when the work resembles another work so that it proudly shows the influence on it.
• Whole-Plot Reference: When a work, usually a comedic parody, goes beyond referencing another work and follows its plot with its own characters.

edited 18th May '11 2:13:44 PM by Treblain

It seems that anything that involves a drill is immediately a shout-out to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

edited 22nd May '11 6:59:34 PM by Anomalocaris20

Additionally, a Shout-Out must be deliberately made (or failing that, confirmed) by the creators. Merely coincidental similarities are not Shout Outs.

edited 22nd May '11 7:10:35 PM by Stratadrake

Even earlier works with drills are automatically homaging Gurren Lagann; as mentioned above, typical Fan Myopia.

Don't forget that the problem isn't limited to that page — I've seen it used for really questionable things all over the place (the ones that most often catch my eye are supposed Shout-Outs to niche anime in mainstream Western TV shows.) Aside from putting a big warning on the Shout-Out page itself (which, honestly, nobody will read), I'm not sure what can be done about it...

I think a generally good guideline is that if you have to list all the similarities in an effort to convince us, it's probably not a real shout-out — I've usually noticed that it's the ones that do that that are the most clearly out of place.

edited 24th Jun '11 5:39:54 PM by Aquillion

bump.

Not always some if not most shoutouts are kept pretty hidden and are usually a DVD Freeze Frame Bonus or get out the magnifying glass [1]◊. Or something to that effect.

Some you got to explain... however those barely "Kinda" ones need word of god approval to get on the page IMO.

edited 28th Jun '11 7:11:42 AM by Raso

Personally, I think that every single example that uses the words "might", "could be", or similar should be excised. If its not a definite, then its not an example. Pretty simple.

Agreeing with above post. If it's not OBVIOUSLY a shout-out, then it shouldn't belong.

I feel like this: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Template:Notareference is relevant.

Basically, the TFWiki deals with this a lot, and our own attempt to keep sanity has consisted of zapping on sight anything that isn't either Word of God or incredibly blatant. IMHO, might not be a bad idea to adopt such a policy here as well...

edited 3rd Sep '11 11:01:23 PM by Jeysie

Bump.

Also, If 24 appears in any from of media ever, its a shout out to The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy

edited 28th Sep '11 1:28:18 PM by crazydrman

{{19}}seconded. This is my instance to any use of said words in non-YMMV tropes, actually.Really, this policy sounds excellent.

edited 26th Sep '11 5:06:24 PM by MagBas

bump

bump