The ethics of 'therapeutic' elective surgery

Not too long ago in the state of victoria a judge allow a 12 year old girl to have a sex change. Despite her age and it being against her father's wishes the judge ruled that as she had been stressed and anxious at the prospect of starting her period and had threatened self-harm there was medical justification for surgery.

while it's easy to simply go You Go, Girl! (Um... boy) on her him getting recondition at being able to live the life that she chooses for her his self. The trend of depression being used to give a green light to otherwise restricted surgery is some what unsettling. Such as in the case where at doctor amputated perfectly health limbs at his patients request.

edited 18th Mar '11 3:09:11 AM by joeyjojo

A state government observer, an endocrinologist, a psychiatrist, a family counsellor and a lawyer acting on the child's behalf all supported the plan.

All the proof I need that the surgery was a good idea.

This seems like a fine grey area i guess.
I don't find it disturbing, just a bit unormal and against "commone sense". Since I do not care for common sense, I guess i do not find it that disturbing.

I must admit even I find it strange that someone so young would be so committed to such a lifechanging decision. But again, if such an array of medical professionals felt strongly enough about this case to give sufficiently compelling testimony to the court then I guess it must have been an unusual situation.

Precedent is often set in weird cases.

Didn't it say in the article that they weren't giving her the actual operation, just hormone therapy? They're not allowed to do anything more till she's 18.

Still but, 'mental distress' seems like blatant Loophole Abuse

Mental Distress can be a crippling issue so much so that it can effect ones ability to even get out of bed. If something will make someone feel better and it isn't a life threatening addiction than let them do it.

Lets says something bite me and there is a 50/50 change whatever venom it holds will get to my heart within the hour, now there is an antidote on the way but it could take up to two hours to get to where I am, if the venom reaches my heart I'm dead but it's still only a 50/50 chance right, what if I decide I don't want to risk and and rather remove the arm, you may say that example is too extreme (or you may not.) but that is what it's like for a lot of these people.

Mental distress. If you can't fix the mind, fix the body to eliminate the distress (with consent of patient). Seriously. Where is the problem?

And hormone therapy isn't surgery, and what he did is no different than a male undergoing puberty, albeit with the aid of supplemental hormones.

Do you consider having a cleft palette fixed to be elective surgery? No. This is medically necessitated hormone therapy. It's correcting a birth defect. Not a big deal.

"Elective surgery: Surgery that is subject to choice (election). The choice may be made by the patient or doctor.

For example, the time when a surgical procedure is performed may be elective. The procedure is beneficial to the patient but does not need be done at a particular time.

As opposed to urgent or emergency surgery."

This does seem to be elective, but I don't see the problem.

While most of us can agreed with a the girl's decision, there is an highly understandable distain for people choosing to become amputees.

Why should we have disdain for them? According to your link, they feel this way because of a psychological disorder.

"Symptoms of BIID sufferers are often keenly felt. The sufferer feels incomplete with four limbs, but is confident amputation will fix this. The sufferer knows exactly what part of which limb should be amputated to relieve the suffering. The most common request is an above-the-knee amputation of the left leg. The sufferer has intense feelings of envy toward amputees. They often pretend, both in private and in public, that they are an amputee. The sufferer recognizes the above symptoms as being strange and unnatural. They feel alone in having these thoughts, and don't believe anyone could ever understand their urges. They may try to injure themselves to require the amputation of that limb. They generally are ashamed of their thoughts and try to hide them from others, including therapists and health care professionals."

Yes, that makes me feel sorry for them.

Maybe we shouldn't, most people would be horrified by the prospect of some one hack off their own arm and a doctor would help them do it.

edited 18th Mar '11 4:05:11 PM by joeyjojo

I don't know, I don't really understand the disdain toward people who wanted to get amputations. I mean, they had a pretty serious mental disorder, therapy obviously wasn't helping, and they made the decision to amputate of their own free will. How is that any different from someone wanting a sex-change operation?

how indeed O_O

edited 18th Mar '11 4:07:13 PM by joeyjojo

"How is that any different from someone wanting a sex-change operation?"

Well, sex-change operations are kind of 'normalizing', whereas this is definitively not. Not that that is important to me.

I think your original post places the young person's situation in a false light and treats it as worthy of mockery and humor rather than taking it seriously. The normal safeguards appear to have been in place against this being a rash or ill-thought-out decision, as witnessed by the number of experts that testified.

In both cases, someone is feeling extremely uncomfortable with some aspect of their body, to the point where it takes over their life and can be very well classified as a mental disorder. Surgery fixes this. So no, still not seeing how it's different.

Amputations are a bit different then a sex change operation. Sex change operations don't make you lose a limb, for one. How widespread is this illness?

I can do both can't I?

edited 18th Mar '11 4:14:23 PM by joeyjojo

Good for him and good for the people who supported him.

I'd have problems with this if it were against the girl's will, but it's not.

Well, if you consider a penis a limb...

Mockery and humor come across as an attempt to prejudice others against taking the subject's concerns and interests seriously.

"In both cases, someone is feeling extremely uncomfortable with some aspect of their body, to the point where it takes over their life and can be very well classified as a mental disorder. Surgery fixes this."

I agree with this, I don't have a problem with either.

"So no, still not seeing how it's different."

But being a man or woman is perfectly normal, while being an amputee is not. Quite the opposite. It's normally seen in a negative light.