General Writer's Block thread

I had an idea where Tomes would need to be equipped to passively gain EXP. Tomes would also usually come partially filled, or even completely filled. I wouldn't really say it's a game without side content more than collect-a-thons don't have side content if you don't count the collectables that aren't needed to reach the end. I also have a hard time understanding why somebody would skip side content (such as not getting every Plot Coupon in a Collect-A-Thon) unless it was bad. If I made a collect-a-thon, I wish I could make getting every plot coupon mandatory to truly finish the game. Of course that's a terrible idea so I wouldn't do it, but I would love for it to be an optional difficulty modifyer.

Edit: Thinking about the EXP idea, it would probably make the Tomes a case of forced grinding. I still want a way to make it so you cannot immediately use perks books you have found so you can't stack them early game.

Going back to the main quest, the story would tackle ableism, more specifically the lasting consequences of ableist attitudes towards children with mental illness/disorders. I don't know how much fiction tackles the message of how we need to genuinely treat neurodivergant people with more empathy. And not in the still implicitly ableist way of saying that neurodivergent (or generally disabled) people can be normal too.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 20th 2024 at 4:40:23 AM

This could work, I do think.

How it would be received would, of course, vary from player-to-player (and I daresay with the rate of XP gain). I know that I'm not a huge fan of such mechanics, myself—but others may very much like it.

I mean, if you don't count the non-required collectibles, then what side-content is there?

Side-content, by definition, is content that the player needn't go through in order to beat the game. If the player has to go through everything, then there's no side-content.

Remember: Different players have different motivations.

There are several potential motivations (at the least), if I'm not much mistaken, but relevant here is that some players may be in it primarily for the main quest—perhaps specifically for the story.

For such a player, side-content would be at best a means to grind (and some people dislike grinding), at worst an irrelevancy.

This could actually be a good idea!

Indeed, the original Thief games did something similar, as I recall: on the "Expert" difficulty setting, the player might be required to collect all (or most) of the loot available to be found in a given mission.

It might also make a good way of getting a secret ending. I feel like something along these lines has been done before, but I'm not sure of where...

Well, that's fair enough, I suppose.

It would mean that I would not play this game, myself—but that's okay, as you're not making it for me, specifically.

(I can't stand grinding of any significant degree.

But, conversely, some people like it. *shrugs*)

If I may ask: why not just gate access to them, then?

(Even if the design of the game allows the player to roam pretty freely, surely you could at least require certain degrees of progression in order to access the tomes? Maybe they only open in accordance with certain story-beats, or when the player gains certain story-based items, for example.)

This I don't know, I'm afraid!

It's an interesting topic for your game, I will say! If I may ask out of curiosity, how do you intend to address it?

The main antagonist is a Literal Split Personality of an autistic man who went through terrible abuse and was eventually exploited by a Mad Scientist trying to separate the "good" part of someone from the "bad" one. Said Literal Split Personality deconstructs Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds by showing that, since he is the dark side of a fundamentally good person, he isn't actually capable of being that evil. He's more of a symbolic antagonist that represents his "good" half, one of the main characters, learning to overcome his trauma. This theme would be introduced with a particularly brutal Gut Punch early on where a young autistic boy who the main character is friends with, after being a somewhat prominent side character at the start, is killed by his implicitly abusive parents. The media and the public at large then proceed to portray the father as a tragic victim (despite him being a Shou Tucker level Hate Sink) and generally try to downplay the severity of his actions. The "Bad" side showing up to his jail cell, knocking out the guards, and just murdering the father is his Establishing Character Moment (after his introduction left his characterization and motives vague). I wanted to include that Gut Punch since it is, sadly, very common in real life for parents to murder their autistic children and be treated with sympathy by the public afterwards. I want to show just how truly fucked up and deplorable it is in reality. This would weave together into a broader theme of how society's implicit Lack of Empathy towards and dehumanization of neurodivergant people contribute, directly or indirectly, to abusive treatment of(such as trying to educate them into being "normal" so people won't have to deal with their disability) or self-loathing attitudes in neurodivergant people.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 21st 2024 at 9:16:04 AM

I see! Thank you for sharing that! ^_^

It seems like you have a pretty delicate topic on your hands. It could potentially make for an interesting and impactful experience, I imagine!

I will say, this juxtaposition caught me off-guard:

I'm... guessing that you mean that the "treatment with sympathy" is common, not the murder...?

Wikipedia notes that such murder does happen, but seems to indicate that it's less than "very common".

(On a meta-note, if I may, please in future break up your posts into paragraphs. It wasn't too bad in your previous posts, but here the result was a bit on the wall-of-text side for me, and made reading uncomfortable...)

Is it fine if this is place where I can share what are an editor's thoughts on what I'm working on?

I suppose so.

Well, the editor's bio mentions something about stories that have concepts that they haven't heard of before to be the ones they're the most keen to work on.

That editor said that about my story after I sent them the first 10 pages plus the synopsis.

Oh, and said editor had some clients whose books turned into bestsellers.

What does that tell about the story I'm doing?

Yeah that is a case of Moral Dissonance I didn't realize. I'm considering having him (after remerging with his Literal Split Personality) acknowledge that it was ultimately nothing more than selfish Misplaced Retribution, but still state he cannot bring himself to feel remorse over doing so since the father was a remorseless Asshole Victim.

Otherwise, said split personality cannot bring himself to stoop to actual terrorism or harming innocent people. His final gambit of using a macguffin to absorb enough power to remerge with his other half and remain in control without being reassimilated, he leads the main characters to believe he was gonna kill a bunch of people at a festival and absorb their consciousness. He actually breaks into the city's main power plant and absorbs the entire power grid (minus Hospitals).

As for treating neurodivergant people with empathy, I meant how people oftentimes do not empathize with the struggles of people who are neurodivergant and try to "fix" them or see neurodivergant people as being lesser (knowingly or not). For example how meltdowns are seen as autistic people throwing a tantrum and not them being in severe distress. The overall message is that of understanding the perspectives of neurodivergant people and empathizing with how their mental issues feel to the people with them.

Filicide of Autistic children is way higher per capita than other cases of filicide. And when it does happen, the media and people try to downplay the crime using the fact that the child being disabled made them "too hard to care for" (implicitly blaming the child). So while "very common" is an exaggeration, filicide of autistic children is more common per capita. I want to bring light to this issue, since caretakers of autistic children trying to kill them being portrayed sympathetically still show up in fiction every now and then.

The tone is a challenge for this since the story, for the most part, I want to be light and cheerful but balanced by darker themes and moments (think Persona 4). It isn't a story about wallowing in the darkness of the world, but instead about the wonder of the world.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 24th 2024 at 6:29:37 AM

@TheLivingDrawing:

This is actually an interesting bit of characterisation, providing some nuance to the "dark side character"—as well as a nice misdirect for the audience, handled well, I think. ^_^

Don't worry, that much I got, I do believe, and have no real argument with! ^_^

Yeah, this makes more sense.

I suppose that what I might say here is to be careful in using hyperbole: it can actually undermine an argument in some cases, I fear.

Yup, I have no argument here! ^_^

I've never played (or watched a let's play of) any of the Persona games, but I think that I get the idea.

This is good to read! ^_^

~

@LoneCourier0:

Perhaps I'm being overly conservative in my estimation, but I'm not sure that it does say much.

We can guess that the editor in question hasn't seen many stories like yours—but, not knowing the range of their experience, it's hard to really infer much from that, I feel.

That the editor had clients that produced bestsellers suggests that they might be a good editor.

Still, I stand to be corrected in this by those with more experience!

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Feb 25th 2024 at 11:33:54 AM

Also the Literal Split Personality (I'm bad at coming up with names for my characters) isn't the real Final Boss. Rather it's Nephelis. An extremely powerful Homunculus who serves as The Dreaded but is otherwise mostly in the background. He turns out to be the creation of the scientist who experimented on the autistic man, who turns out to be the main character's (who, for the record, is Non-Binary) professor, who was seen in their introductory scene, but otherwise has a very minor role.

I wanted the final battle to play out by having you complete the real final dungeon (in what the game wants you to think is the post game) without a boss fight, going to meet your professor for something unrelated, and the person he experimented on just so happened to choose to accompany them. Cue his assistant being revealed to be Nephelis in disguise. The main characters even lampshade how they should've seen fighting him coming. I want there to be a lot of foreshadowing for this twist that is very subtle and easy to miss.

Nephelis himself, being the product of a powerful cognetive being and a brilliant scientist (hence the name being derived from the Nephelin), is both an extremely strong physical fighter, but a master of actualization. After his defeat, the story gives some sympathy at him being born to be a Living Weapon and an experiment, who was never truly loved by his creator despite Nephelis desperately trying to win his father's love and approval.

The mad scientist isn't terribly important to the story(the story is about the victims not the abuser), but in case he comes across as a Generic Doomsday Villain, his goal is to create a literally perfect lifeform. I don't have much characterization in mind, maybe I could find small ways to flesh him out.

I just love sharing my ideas. I'm pursuing science and philosophy, so these will never be made, but I love thinking up stories in my head.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 25th 2024 at 11:17:51 AM

So I am having some challenges with writing various characters. A big one I could use advice for is the big bad of my fantasy series. I'm imagining something of a mix between Fullmetal Alchemist, Avatar the Last Airbender, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. Fantasy with some sci fi elements.

I have my mind set on a villainous king character. They will serve as the ultimate antagonist for a good majority of my series and even when dead, I want his legacy to be felt.

Design wise, he is a brooding, calculating, ruthless warrior king who is so good at swordplay that it's almost effortless for him. Black hair, black robes but skin as pale as snow. He's blinded by a fight he had with a former mentor but his abilities are not impaired. He has glowing red eyes that cannot see but look frightening to stare into. They only appear when he's furious, otherwise he's eyeball less. He wears an eye band to hide his appearance in public but when in battle the eyeband comes off.

Backstory wise, this is where I could use advice. He was raised in an orphanage until he's 18, but was watched over by a powerful Magi who is part of a High Council. This being watched over the villainous king and fostered darker intentions from an early age. All his life he has wanted to know who his mother was but it required selling his soul, which he eventually does after a few too many wrong choices that make him feel cornered. He finds out that his mother was impregnated by a demonic eldritch god and that she was forced to carry him to term and as such bears no love for him at all. He blames his mother and shows no empathy to her, killing his resurrected mother and swearing allegiance to the demonic god both out of fear and a hatred for humanity. His character flaw is a critical lack of empathy. He does not empathize with others which creates enemies and he's blinded by rage for the people who "wronged him" a fatal flaw. Because he has deep issues with women, not just his dead mother but with a surrogate mother he kills and a person he wanted to be his wife whom he also kills when she refuses to surrender her son to him, which would mean death. And that son is a chosen one archetypes. A son of a demonic god who raped his mother wanting to kill a prophesized chosen hero... I dunno if that's poetic or cheesy... could use advice.

Because of deep issues with women he hates the protagonist of my story who he sees as a living reincarnation of the woman he wanted to possess. And she wins not by fighting him, that's the Chosen One's plotline, but by instead devoting her life to being all he is not.

@TheLivingDrawing:
Hmm... But how does this Real Final Boss fit into the themes of the work...? Right now they seem somewhat orthogonal to the whole business of neurodivergence, etc.

As to the scientist, it sounds like they're not really all that important to the narrative: they set off a number of things, but aren't themselves all that relevant. As such, I'm not sure that it's necessarily a problem for them to be a bit flat.

That's very fair! There's nothing wrong with stretching the creative muscles, I feel, nor with sharing what one's toying with. ^_^

@Patar136:

Traditionally, a big fight between a hero and the big villain would be the climax of the piece. But if your protagonist is not that hero, and if her victory is not of that sort, then that suggests that there's a different climax of some sort...

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Feb 26th 2024 at 10:41:50 PM

How does Nephelis fit? He's mostly meant to be more of a cool final challenge than a narrative finale. The doctor isn't important since the story isn't about the abusers, but their victims. The doctor does fit into the central theme since he is a semi-fantastical eugenicist though.

Hmm... I hear you, but I fear that he might feel a bit tacked on, in that case.

It might be worth considering whether you can find a way to make him relevant to the plot, or to shuffle him into another spot (e.g. as an earlier optional boss).

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Feb 26th 2024 at 9:23:13 PM

He is The Dragon to the Greater-Scope Villain. Given how he is a quote-unquote "perfect" lifeform made by a eugenicist, he still fits into the central theme. The doctor's emotional abuse and lack of genuine care for his creation, leading to Nephelis developing an Inferiority Superiority Complex, are things I want to add to their characterization. I could probably just make him a walking deconstruction of Eugenic ideology.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 27th 2024 at 7:03:31 AM

@Ars Thaumaturgis Thanks so much for your feedback. I found it very useful. I wanted to clarify a couple plot points.

I should have mentioned that one of the characters, his name is Jason Striker (yeah, that's what the name is) is a virgin birth Chosen One. And I'm deciding to actually give the mom a character arc and have it be an actual plot point, not a random thing thrown in for weirdness like with Anakin Skywalker and Phantom Menace. David, by contrast, was a child by rape by an evil god as opposed to Jason's birth which was consensual. That's probably where my ironic element came from.

Second, while Jason is a primary main character he is not the main main character. That goes to Lilian Nova who is something of an Unchosen Hero and she falls in love with Jason because she is the loving hero who strides for courage and idealism contrasted with Jason who is a brave hero of fate who struggles with tragedy and the flaw of revenge. Lilian's character flaw is her naivety and that she is constantly facing self doubts while Jason's flaw is an inability to let go of grudges and a deep desire for revenge. By the time Jason realizes what revenge does to him it's too late, though he does get to take down the big bad of my story.

You hinted that Lilian has a different climax and she does. By far one of the biggest climax in my series is when she has to use her fire magic to destroy a floating castle, Base Olympus, from unleashing a weapon called the Helldriver from incinerating the surface of the planet. Unlike most super weapons, this one actually gets to unleash a lot of destruction before it goes down. Thousands of people die at first but then the superweapon has a temporary halt in firing, which gives Lilian the opportunity to get below the island and with her outreached hands hold up the world, literally, with her own power. Though it nearly destroys her she does in fact destroy Base Olympus, knowing that even if Jason somehow survived his battle with David... he dies with it.

Lilian spends the next few books having to live in a world where David is glorified in his Empire and she has to both defeat his fanatical supporters, prevent David from getting resurrected and finally.... face down the evil god of her world and come out standing.

Jason may have won the sword battle against David, but Lilian has to win the war against David's legacy. And most of all, she wants to make sure that Jason didn't die for nothing.

Edited by Patar136 on Feb 27th 2024 at 10:37:59 AM

I'm glad if I've helped! ^_^

Ah, I see!

I wouldn't call it irony, myself, but I do then see a poetry to it, the two characters being counterpoints to each other.

Ah, interesting!

I'll confess, from your description I was expecting a less... violent climax for her. ^^;

After all, you said that she "wins not by fighting him ... but by instead devoting her life to being all he is not".

And yet here it seems that she wins... well, by fighting him, just indirectly. Or rather, not by violent conflict with him personally, but by violent conflict with his apparatus.

Fair enough! As I said, not what I was expecting, based on your description, but that's fine! What you now describe seems like a decent plotline for a fantasy or sci-fi epic. ^_^

Sorry for interrupting the thread, but I want to ask a request.

I am looking for a user who can critique an upcoming work in the Constructive Criticism thread. I have already critiqued the previous entry in that thread. Right now, I'm going to post my work on the Waitlist. But I need to polish the work before I can publish it. Would anyone be willing to critique the work?

@Ars Thaumaturgis

I can see where you might have thought that. Yeah, it is a pretty intense climax with a lot of destruction. I imagine it causing my heroine to feel a ton of pressure afterwards. Since she essentially saved the world and has become legendary in the eyes of those opposed to the Empire faction in my world while those on the Imperial side see her as a sort of demonic monster that killed their god king descendent.

In fact, from this point forward she tries to swear off killing as she loathes the fact that she had to destroy Base Olympus, even if there was no other way. She keeps trying to imagine this climactic day ending differently, especially in that it causes her beloved to die... whom she couldn't save.

Lilian: Sometimes I see that day play in my head as if I'm staring into glass, watching myself make all those choices... choices I wish I could take back. Sometimes I see myself saving everybody... The Helldriver is destroyed and the island just sort of crumbles.... but more often I just feel this heat absorbing me, as I feel myself fading way... burning myself dry... burning to..... And I keep seeing, Jason.... We.... we parted badly. He.... he was so angry.... But it wasn't a furious angry it was a .... scared angry.... His eyes showed so much pain and hurt and..... maybe if I could have just said a few more words and told how much I loved him I..... I don't know..... I don't know what else I could have done.... All I know is that half the world condemns me. The other half worships me....And yet I'm still just one woman... who just wanted to see the next day.

@Adept Gaderius Why don't you post stuff here. That way I can see what you have so far.

Edited by Patar136 on Feb 27th 2024 at 9:03:14 AM

@Patar 136:

Here's the link. I haven't posted it up on the waitlist, but I'm alright just to get a critique on it.

Legacy of Shadows: A supervillain story.

I've noticed that most of my story ideas involve a Cast Full of Crazy, and I'm starting to wonder if that says anything about me.

In and of itself, I think that it just speaks to your having a preference for that trope.

Anything more would, I feel, involve delving into why you have that preference! (Which, to be clear, we here are unlikely to have the specialist knowledge to reliably interpret, I daresay.)

I love coming with ideas just because I want to use a particular setting. I love dream/mental worlds because they justify any setting. Some ideas I had that I created a story around are as such.

Potionriver Valley: dark mystical forest whose rivers flows with a potion of random effect. The story sees the potion river becoming dangerous and unstable, killing off life in the valley and spawning monsters.

High Noon Gulch: An old west styled abandoned mining town in the desert. The story sees it becoming overrun with living shadows that threaten any who enter the mines or stay out at night (or near the shadows)

The Capital in the Clouds: A floating city. The story sees the local sky pirates become a significantly larger and more organized threat that endangers the entire city.

No Man's Bog: A dark and defiled swamp filled with cursed water. Very inhospitable to outside life, only a single family of oddballs thrive here. The story sees it besieged by violent storms that, combined with the cursed water, threaten to destroy what little can survive there.

Hive of the Enlightened: A giant technological research complex where the greatest minds in the land develop fantastical technology. The story sees it suddenly falling under the control of an evil AI, forcing the researchers to evacuate. Said AI poses a risk of using the advanced tech at its disposal to wage war on the surrounding areas.

The story would involve traveling to the corners of the land to rebuild the shattered Fisher King and restore peace to the land, used as an allegory for self-care. The story would be more about the people you meet along the way.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Mar 7th 2024 at 8:55:16 AM

I've begun to notice that my story's setting becomes more and more depressing the more I think about it, and I'm not sure what to do with that kind of revelation.

Well, I'd say that that depends primarily on two things:

First, what sort of tone do you want?

And second, do you subscribe to I Just Write the Thing, or do you subscribe to authorial control?