"Zeno's Race" is non indicative, and kind of complaining.: Ptitle96cc44ei

I would bring this up just for renaming, but it seems like complaining about stretching out the plot. So I'm wondering if this is even worth keeping. And if so, at least make a name that actually states what the trope is, which is trying to wrap a mathematical concept around a trope.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

It looks like a very specific subtrope of Padding.

edited 1st Mar '11 6:00:13 PM by Redhead

The new It Just Bugs Me!

WTH this is a strange trope it seems to be talking about excessive distractions to the main plot but none of the examples seem to cover it quite right some are a rpg with sidequests or shows that are divided up into arcs and the goal changes with each arc.

edited 1st Mar '11 6:00:33 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

There's some X Just X going on in the examples, the title is very confusing, and I don't even know what is going on with the description. It just meanders between bitching and dryness.

And I think the trope description mixed up Gainax Ending and Gecko Ending.

edited 1st Mar '11 6:04:52 PM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

The metaphor in the title is excellent- even if we change the name we should probably keep it. This is a trope and not a complaining outlet: as the plot progresses, the rate at which plot progresses slows down.  ^{fun fact}

Maybe it needs example cleanup.

What it definitely needs is a word in the title to say what sort of thing it is (plot device? Ending? Meta concept?). So how about Achilles Vs Turtle Pacing?

edited 1st Mar '11 6:19:58 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

I'm not sure if this trope is distinct from Myth Stall. There's some overlapping examples (like the infamous Inuyasha).

edited 1st Mar '11 6:23:55 PM by silver2195

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

What Triple Elation said.

I think this is worth keeping, just because it's a pacing trope with some degree of objectivity. Zeno's Race is when, as the series progresses, more and more time passes between the major events of the plot.

Some of the examples do need elaboration to explain how they fit the trope.

I didn't write any of that.

I do think the "race" is just a little confusing to those not familiar with the idea. "Zeno's Pacing", maybe? It would at least convey that this is a trope about pacing.

I, too, like the original joke in the title. Zenos Pace, perhaps?

There's definitely a trope there, the page itself could use some cleaning, but "as the plot progresses, the amount of time between milestones increases exponentially" is something I think is tropeable that happens.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

re:1

We've had this discussion before; Fast Eddie himself said it made a perfectly reasonable trope, my, we even went over the difference from Arc Fatigue, weren't you there?

If you've worked out the difference why isn't it in the page?

I'd say this is a "subtrope" of Arc Fatigue, except Arc Fatigue is an Audience Reaction.... And we don't have the proper YMMV trope counterpart for it... And even if we had one the examples would probably have total overlap with the ones for Arc Fatigue...

Ow. My head. Wait, I'll bring this up elsewhere. Don't want to derail this.

EDIT: brought it up in the special efforts classification thread.

edited 2nd Mar '11 11:03:26 AM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

So which is this? Excessive distractions to the plot? (The Final Fantasy XII example) or as the series progresses the new arcs (and new goal) get longer? (Dragon Ball Z Negima Naruto, Bleach) or none of the above? The trope is so confusing that it could be 50 different things.

edited 2nd Mar '11 1:29:28 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

The name actually explains the trope pretty well, once you know what Zeno's race is — that you cover "half the distance remaining in each time span". In the first season, you get halfway to the goal point. In the second season, you get to the halfway point of the distance that's left. In the third season, you again cover half the remaining distance... and so on — the goal is never reached.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

So a lot of those examples don't count like Dragon Ball Z (Each arc is self contained with a new goal and new Big Bad set each time and does not have any kind of seasons just arcs themselves get longer as time goes on.) and Final Fantasy XII (A single game but has a lot of distractions and the plot passed the intro moves slowly across the board.)

This is a very confusing trope... a math formula based trope. (Doesn't help that the trope talks more of the math then trope.)

edited 2nd Mar '11 2:38:14 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

That doesn't fit the trope to me. That should mean shorter padding as it nears the resolution, not more.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

<insert raised eyebrow smilie here>

Really? Say if Ash Ketchum needs eight gym badges for his quest, gets four gym badges in the first series, two in the second, one in the third, he's doind less quest related stuff, no?

Yep, that would be this trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Animes are usually never divided into seasons like that year around shows like DBZ and Bleach just have arcs.

edited 2nd Mar '11 3:12:25 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

But they still have episiodes right? Say he got four badges in the first 10 episodes, 2 in eps 11-20 and 1 in eps 21-30. It would still be this trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

That is What I asked earlier...

And foxy mod said it had to be the same goal just half the distance to it.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

This is by and large not going to be an anime trope, simply because Anime is structured differently from a lot of long running Western series (animated or Live Action).

Its not impossible for it to show up, but this is almost the opposite problem most anime have, which is "Oh shit! We only have 4 more episodes to resolve the plot!"

I can't think of many shows that fit this trope (personaly, I like the "change to Zeno's Pace" option). For this trope to apply, certain things have to apply:

1. There is one primary goal/clear finish point for a period of time (secondary/side goals don't count)
2. You have to be able to tell when progress is being made twoards that goal
3. The it takes significantly longer to reach the next "progresion point" than it took to reach the previous one.

...And shows, of any kind, usualy have fairly regular "progresion points," all the progress is made near the beginning and end (not throughout the show), change primary goals occationaly, or have no stated goals/goals that are indetermanate. The only ones that I can thnk of that might apply are Pokemon and Inuyasha. Ash always progresses on his goal to "be a Master," but never seems to actually get closer to that goal and the Shikon jewel shards are found all over the place at the start, but get harder to find/get as time goes on.

This trope mostly applies to games. In fact, there are not many RPGs that it doesn't apply to. How many times have you seen this sort of thing happen?

• Beginner/practice dungen: 10-30 min to complete
• Plot is defined and you have to get 8 items in various dungens around the world. 1 more hour.
• Travel to and 1st dungen for plot item: 1.5 hr
• Side quest to open world. Travel to and complete 2nd dungen for plot item. 2 hr
• Repeat previous step untill complete, but make the time 3 hr, 5 hr, 8 hr, etc.

Esentualy, think of Zelda. I'm not saying the plot can't have twists or smaller goals along the way or anything like that. In fact, there are probably some games where this makes legitimate sense within the plot.

At least, that is my take on the subject.

(for some reason this browser does not have a spell check, so please ignore "speeling erors")

edited 2nd Mar '11 4:12:44 PM by Belian

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!

Well, the trope started out as primarily a video game one, so it makes sense that it would fit the quest-style games better than most other Media Categories.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Basically, the only works which can qualify for this trope are the ones with a specific goal strived for throughout the entire series - say, find the eight McGuffins needed to save the world, or all the shards of the shattered Shikon Jewel. If the plot progression for one these series keeps getting slower and slower over time then it qualifies for this trope.

Bleach doesn't count for this because the arcs all have individual goals (rescue Rukia, defeat Aizen, etc.) that actually are successfully fulfilled by the end of the arc.

I would not say the entire series. I could make a good argument that the goal "Kill Aizen" falls under this.

Actualy, Negi's goal of 'finding his dad' and Luffy's goal of finding One Piece could also fall under this.

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!