What Does 'Family Values' Mean To You?

That's a human reaction. There has never existed, and never will exist, a totally inclusive society.

Which totally means we should never strive for it.

raises eyebrow

So you're saying happy acceptance without judgment is the optimal response to any behavior you don't agree with? I mean, it's not at all exclusive to homophobia or racism or other bad things; some ostracizing responses are quite good and discourage socially destructive behaviors. The only issue here is they think something's a socially destructive behavior that isn't.

edited 25th Feb '11 9:56:30 AM by Pykrete

^ Frown Power works wonders.

We should be inclusive as possible, which is why I said "strive" and not "be 100% inclusive of every behavior ever".

The phrase "family values" makes me think of all the people who maintained that the situation with my abusive stepfather was superior to the previous one with my single mother, simply because there was a "father figure" around. Anyone who uses it unironically will please to go sit on the business end of an ice pick.

@Karalora: no offence, but you really can't blame the republican party for your crappy childhood.

When used seriously, it means supporting the ones you love, helping then out of tough spots, guiding them, and doing what you can to turn them into better people who can accomplish their dreams.

When used by politicians, it means pretending to support strong families while cheating on your wife, bashing people with the same sexual desires you have, and trying to return women to a position of de facto sexual slavery. Also, trying to get gay sex in airport restrooms and lifting the luggage with rent boys.

Why not? They enable domestic abuse by bleating about the primacy of "nuclear families" with a "strong male head."

No one actually thinks I'm literally blaming the Republicans for my personal childhood misery, either now or when I made the above post, do they? Because that would be silly.

edited 25th Feb '11 10:21:06 AM by Karalora

Causation does not imply Correlation.

They could have been a part, and probably were. But just because some conservative is going on and on about this doesn't mean that he was the only reason for it.

You know, if you're going to use that line, you kind of still have to explain why correlation =/= causation.

So you're saying happy acceptance without judgment is the optimal response to any behavior you don't agree with? I mean, it's not at all exclusive to homophobia or racism or other bad things; some ostracizing responses are quite good and discourage socially destructive behaviors. The only issue here is they think something's a socially destructive behavior that isn't.

I'll catch shit for this, I'm sure, but I agree with Pykrete on this one. This is one of the issues where I fall towards the Republican side, and not the Democrat side in my moderate and centrist world view. Look, it's ok to hate something. It's not ok to victimize people. Social policing is a natural human reaction, and to be completely fucking honest not all behavior is acceptable or ok.

Now the definition of Family Values.. It's the word that the far right in the USA uses to describe their entire set of things that are socially acceptable, and things that should be socially ostracized. I disagree vehemently with most of it, while I still support the concept of social ostracization in a sense.

(cough)

*passes Ivy a glass of water *

Coming down with some thing my dear?

edited 25th Feb '11 10:52:24 PM by joeyjojo

Let me clarify: What I mean is that yes, it's ok to mock your crazy neighbor who fucks his livestock and wants to marry one of them, and doing so should not be a crime. Humans are biased and judgemental creatures, and legally blocking those feelings is.. well.. kind of irresponsible. Some things are not socially acceptable, and that's just kind of that.

In each and every conflict, stand with your folks against outsiders, even when your folks are clearly in the wrong. That's what "family values" means to me.

Never, ever, ever, rat on a family member or a friend. Never, ever, ever, side with an outsider against a member of your inner circle. Even if your inner circle member is clearly in the wrong, or a complete monster, you either side with him/her or remain neutral.

edited 27th Feb '11 2:18:18 PM by SavageHeathen

The term evokes dread from me, because it's used as an euphemism for valuing the heterosexual nuclear family over other ways to live. Yes, it can mean other things, but whenever I hear the term in a debate, it's not about having strong family ties. It's about excluding divorcees, bastards and queers.

I can't find the video right now, but there's a bit when Ellen Degeneres came out, and was on Oprah talking about it, one audience member complained that "families need as good PR people as the gay commmunity" and how "Ellen coming out is in the papers too much". Ugh... just look around a magazine rack for five seconds and count all the heterosexual couples, heterosexual people, headlines about heterosexual life etc. and compare it to the amount that apply to homosexual people. For every Elton and David, you get ten Bradgelinas.

It means some people who don't necessarily share the same values, interests, or beliefs as you that will never the less stand by your side when life hits the gutter and you'll do the same for them when they're down there.

For every Elton and David, you get ten Bradgelinas. - Jethro Q

Yes, because they're such a good example of a strong family. Aren't they both divorced at least once? -6 Blue Ninja 0

No I'm sure their will be great dads to their son. After all they did pay top doller for him 9_9

edited 27th Feb '11 5:20:09 PM by joeyjojo

Is family values compatiblie with youth rights?

I think you misunderstood; I was mocking Bradgelina as an example of "Family Values", not Elton John and What's-his-name.

Of course not. Kids need to know to shut up and do what they're told, even if they're old enough to vote.

[edit] damn ninjas, they're everywhere!

edited 27th Feb '11 7:37:07 PM by BlueNinja0

To me, 'family values' means a particular mindset, quite often vocally christian conservative, that is all sound and fury. It also means hypocisy in my dictionary, because i've never met someone espousing family values who walked the walk

consequently, I feel free to infuse my use of it with incestuous and nepotistic overtones. because it amuses me

edited 28th Feb '11 12:38:14 AM by pathfinder