General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

They skipped over the storybook games because they were spin-offs...

To say nothing of the unorthodox way Secret Rings controlled.

Only 1 & 2 aren't spin-offs as well. So that's irrelevant. Hell, only Tails' Adventure outright has a place in the regular storyline, besides 1 and 2 by default. None of the other Game Gear games have any place in the actual storyline, which is why they're spin-offs.

Regardless, the fact is, Sonic still plays a major role in Shadow's game. I really don't give a crap if he plays the same as others. He plays pretty much no different from his Generations self to a degree. So him going through a course like Lethal Highway... when he already does, makes perfect sense anyway. But again, there's zero Console Dreamcast era choices among the actual Platformers, so that makes it one of the best options for the Console Generations. Handheld one really did a poor job of implementing actual handheld games. Using very few(Green Hill Zone is in both versions of Sonic 1, mind you) was a major downside. Not sure why they barely bothered with the Handheld version, being well, based upon Handheld games. Hell, they forgot to put a single Advanced game in there, despite being the only Handheld games among the Dreamcast saga specifically. You had 3 very well received games. -facepalm-

And yet mention them anyway. Only problem was Black Knight, due to not being a regular platformer when you play as Sonic. But that doesn't apply to Shadow's game(especially since we're playing as Sonic... who goes through those courses without special power-ups and does just fine), so that is 100% irrelevant anyway. Being a spin-off doesn't matter, regardless. Likewise, they chose 06, the least popular of the 3, so "popularity" is a laughable issue.

I still stand that there are zero Dreamcast saga choices if we're going for an actual fourth course on the Console versions. Spin-off is just a seriously poor excuse here. Especially when Sonic was playable, on one of the more favorable courses according to fans.

edited 24th Apr '14 7:21:56 PM by Irene

Imagine a Gmel boss fight in Generations. Or a Nack the Weasel^note that's the name I first heard for him, so that's what I'm calling him fight! Or even a repeat of the Blaze fi—*remembers the terrible button mashing in that fight*—er, nevermind.

Spin-off status isn't effected by Story significance or Canon...

Sonic 06 has more popular and Sonic-Y levels that peope would've found memorable. People found Crisis City to be the most memorable stage...even the most popular levels from Shth aren't that memorable.

Just because a lot of people see Sonic 06' as a bad game doesn't mean they can't like anything from it. Its a bigger part of Sonic history because of how bad it was, Shth was just another bad game that showed the lowering quality of the series. You can pretty much just skip Shth and lose nothing of value from it...

Sonic's role in Shth is as minor as tick. He's not at all important to the overall story...the only reason he shows up the most is because he's the Series name character. Its not a justifying point.

Spin-off is used wrong anyway. It's called a Gaiden Game. That, and it can't even be applied to Shadow's game. You might need to read the trope too. Because you're completely off. "A game which takes place in or refers to another video game, but isn't really a sequel." Shadow is a direct sequel to Heroes. It doesn't apply as a real spin-off. Since it's part of the main storyline. FYI, yes, they do have to be part of the storylne to work. The reason the page doesn't listen Shadow's game is because it's a direct sequel to the main storyline game. Where as Tails' Adventure doesn't even have to exist for the series to make sense. It's just likely to be part of the main storyline since it doesn't contradict anything.

And no, you haven't given a single actual reason not to use besides "it's spin-off". Or the fact that it fits just fine since Sonic plays the same anyway. Sonic is hardly a minor tick at all. He's literally just as notable as Eggman throughout the whole thing. They threw him into most of the courses because of that. He's also one of the end bosses, making him pretty important to a multitude of the mini-storylines. Just like Eggman, Black Doom, and Diablo. They all are part of the overall game's storyline specifically.

And what you said about 06 equally applies to Shadow. Like, entirely. Being a spin-off(A.K.A. Gaiden Game, despite not being either anyway) doesn't justify it not being a 100% viable choice. Likewise, Generations has mainly used games that are a major part of the main storyline(which of course Shadow's game is. It specifically ties up Heroes through 06. Heroes and 06 are meaningless as games if Shadow isn't there in the first place). If you're going to keep using the spin-off excuse, let's just end the entire conversation. The point holds zero water to what is needed, a viable Dreamcast era Sonic franchise game that is about platforming. Which, Shadow is specifically. It just has extra attack choices. It's no different from Mario's power-ups have projectiles, or his ability to ride a vehicle in Super Mario Land. Doesn't make them less of a platformer, which, Shadow primarily is. It's also why Secret Rings is the perfect choice for the last Modern Era game, since Black Knight is actually about the sword-fighting, and very little platforming to be had in comparison.

edited 24th Apr '14 8:01:30 PM by Irene

I'm really sick of seeing this incredibly cyclical spinoff argument pop up every so often in this thread. Neither of you are going to reach any real agreement here, so can we just attempt to preemptively prevent a 10 page derail and talk about something else? Like...say, Sonic's Sonic Boom scarf, where do you think he got it? (My guess is he knit it using his own fur.)

Holy jesus, thank you.

You're welcome.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tails ended up being somewhat responsible for the new gear (assuming it will actually be addressed, anyway).

Perhaps he bought it like normal people? Although something that the developers probably never thought about (or maybe they did? If they did, then that's really cool) is that it would definitely help in protecting his neck from harm.

I actually think Sega originally thought of Shadow the Hedgehog as a main-series title when it was originally released. The core gameplay was just Sonic Heroes (an unarguable main-series game) with guns, Shadow's character development carried on from the end of that game, and it was referenced in a lot of games afterwards.

Nowadays, it seems that Sega has taken a Let Us Never Speak of This Again approach to Shadow ever since Unleashed. It really says a lot when they will speak of 06 in Generations, but not Shadow, which means that they just want to completely forget that game (which means treating it even less a Gaiden Game or spinoff).

On an unrelated note, since Sega Japan has handed off the "Westernization" of Sonic to actual western developers with Sonic Boom, I hope that the main series will return to the "anime" style of Adventure and Adventure 2. It's good that they're finally splitting Sonic between the "western" and "Japanese" again; you may deny it, but Sega America's autonomy from Sega Japan in the 90's played a huge factor in making Sonic popular.

Sonic is based on Western related culture and appeal, that's not really something that would automatically go away...it wasn't even split once before.

Also besides the anime-like stories, I don't see Sa1 and especially Sa2 as anime style for the sake of not being "Western"...it doesn't even impact much of anything.

When I mean "split" I mean that there were continuity differences between Sonic as defined by Sega Japan and Sonic as defined by Sega America. Sega Japan only forced Sega America to abandon their continuity once the Sonic games decided to be more story-driven.

To be fair there was no point in making an "entirely" different continuity.

edited 25th Apr '14 10:50:37 AM by randomness4

I don't really think there ever was a different continuity (there was the actual continuity, and then there's what the American audience thought the continuity was because translators wanted to spice the manuals up a bit), and if there was Sonic Boom definitely isn't separating them again.

For one, unless something's changed that we're not aware of, the Sonic games are still being written by an American team. The Sonic Boom team isn't the Colors -> Generations -> Lost World team, so it's not like they're leaving the games to make the series.

There is now. Now they have the opportunity to appeal to fans of the cartoony, lighthearted style with Sonic Boom, while going back to fans of the darker, anime style of the Dreamcast era.

Of course, that's assuming they even take that opportunity, so we'll never know.

edited 25th Apr '14 10:53:27 AM by WaxingName

...Or they could take it slow with that, since the "Dark and Serious" stories thing is still on their "Not to use" mind set...They're too scared to take "that" risk.

Colors and Generations were Japan made stories, they just had the new writers change the dialogue. Lost World was written by the American writers.

Also there is a very noticeable difference in continuity from the Western manuals from the Japanese manuals.

edited 25th Apr '14 11:03:51 AM by randomness4

Colors and Generations are definitely animated to match the English dialogue (Colors is the first game in the series to do so, as far as I know), which - if they were animated as they were written - means that they were written in English first. For both, the Japanese version is the "dub."

According to some Word of God I remember from when Lost World was in production, the American writing team was given a general course for how the games would go and just filled in the blanks - the bare bones of the plot and course progression was Sonic Team, but the rest was all them. Lost World is the first time they've had complete control over the actual plot line, though.

edited 25th Apr '14 2:05:58 PM by KnownUnknown

I wanted to use a word other than just Translation...that was the wrong choice. They had to follow a template basically, the plot was already set for them to write around.

It wasn't complete control...but it was more than they already had.

edited 25th Apr '14 2:11:57 PM by Randomness4

I wonder what Generations would've been like if they had the kind of control they had in Lost World?

A cutscene after/during every new stage would've been awesome, at least. And one each for the bosses.

That would've been nice, but I think they had cut out some cutscene stuff because they had to rush the game out apparently. That would explain some things.

I'm still bummed that Generations 3DS didn't start from the Game Gear levels and move up to the Rush games. I'd imagine for rivals you'd have Nack, Emerl, and Blaze, and for bosses.... I dunno.

As much as I'm actually looking forward to Boom, mostly because it's such a brand new thing and I can't wait to see what a fresh team can do with the series, I really wish we had a Generations 2.

On topic, I still wonder... how much influence DID the writing team have for Lost World? Did they come up with the Deadly Six? I admit, I think they had potential... it was nice to have a villian besides Robotnik that wasn't 'big, angry, world destroying god' for once. They just... need more characterization. Like, a lot.

They had more creative control...they didn't have full control because they were still working with one of the Japnese writers.