Depression and how to write it

Today, I want to talk about something important that I'm trying to grasp while writing this character; Depression.

Now, I have a character who I plan to make depressed in a homage to the classic symbiote suit Spider-man story. The thing is I don't know if I managed to capture the depression realistically withoutsetting it into narm.

Think you guys can help out? Oh, and how do you guys handle depression in your writing? What have you done to your characters?

The Scenario: My super-hero and chronic samaritan syndrome sufferer Alan failed to rescue a busload of innocent people. Ashamed of himself, Alan's inital reaction is to stay in his home as his wife tries to comfort him, till the service. In that time, he replays the event in his head and continoualy second guesses his actions

During the service, Alan remains silent, taking on an oath to mourn for forty days wile wearing a black variant of his suit. Thinking that he has dealt with his failure, Alan goes back to duty but finds himself taking his anger out on those around him. It's when he finds himself beating a man in public that he realizes he hasn't worked things out. I haven't worked out how he gets out of it though. Thoughts?

What does he beat the man in public for?

Guilt won't lead to depression. Depression may include guilt as one its many intracacies, but it won't ever go the other way around. It sounds like what you're describing here is just plain guilt. Also, the most likely outcome of strong guilt isn't violent outlashing towards others but rather a fear of hurting others (sometimes causing this person to go into seclusion for others' sake). When people lash out at others (usually those closest, unfortunately), it's usually because of unhappiness and displacement.

I know the rule of thumb on psychiatric disorders is anything's possible, but that really only applies to the insane ones. Ones defined as what any normal person would experience when going through such trauma (like depression, anxiety, anger, etc.) really should abide by real-life truth.

Someone who is already depressive, however, may react to such things a lot worse than others. They don't have much in the way of "bounce back"-ability, emotionally.

@Saturn: He beats him up for holding a car up at gun point.

@Colbertimposter: Well, early in the story Alan starts to feel the rigors of superherodom/celebrity. Being a company mascot, his bosses stress he be at his fittest so he has entire teams of nutrionists, physiotherapists, personal trainers etc. This regiment along with being a superhero, and dealing with a man who casts some pretty "insightful" illusions as a villain, has left him with little time for his wife Irene. They've tried to make it work, but she's talked about seperation. Yeah I should've mentioned that. My bad. :/

@Morven: So then how do they recover?

edited 16th Feb '11 4:44:54 PM by AtomJames

Another thing: Is the character super-powered, a Badass Normal, slightly more powerful than the average guy, or what?

Time helps. Time helps a lot. People have this thing called mood swings. Some days people are happy, some days they are not. Sometimes the depression might last weeks or months, other times it might only last an afternoon.

One big thing to remember when writing a depressed person is that depressed people think differently from non-depressed people - see this page.

@Redneck Rocker: Alan's superpowered. He can move and react at incredible speeds. Think Flash if he wasn't so powerful.

@Mr AHR: How long can you keep a character depressed before you get the audiance telling him to wake up to himself?

@Ettina: Thanks! This is a big help! I would say Alan is a combination of All-or-Nothing, Minimization and Should Statements.

Certain depressed people don't really care about themselves, especially when they are deeply, deeply depressed.

They don't care about anything that happens around them. Someone could spill coffee on them, and after the initial reaction, they would probably be like "Of ocurse this happens to me".

This is just certain people though. I'm speaking from experience, so other people might react differently.

So a stubble of sorrow wouldn't be too out of the way?

edited 16th Feb '11 6:15:14 PM by AtomJames

No, it wouldn't be too out of the way.

It's not Depression if it's only an afternoon.

The article is crap, too. Pay close attention to this quote from it to see what I mean:

"To conquer depression, we must stop those automatic negative thoughts and replace them with more positive, truthful ones."

As though absolutely everything in life is good and nothing is ever bad. It's ironic that the article accuses others of delusional thoughts.

I suggest this article instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

edited 16th Feb '11 6:39:27 PM by colbertimposter

Thanks Colbert! You probably already got it, but I was planning to have Alan's depression last for a few months.

If you want to make it realistic,here's a few tips. Depression saps you of energy,so you might want to slow him down a bit,make him fatigued. If you're deeply depressed,it eventually begins to delude your thinking. There is no way out,you think. I'm doomed. I'll never make it.

You keep these thoughts going till this thought enters your mind:Life isn't worth living. Then these people either commit suicide or snap out of it and decide to endure.

So,assuming you plan for your character to survive,you need keep these thought patterns up until his moment of triumph,where he has to tell himself the truth,that people need him and that he is who he is. A hero.

That's how "realistic" depression works.

Thanks. I'm really glad to hear you're aiming to write it realisticly instead of downplaying it into a minor nuisance.

Also, sorry if I was rude in this topic. The subject gets me tense because Depression is a very serious thing yet I see it treated as something tiny or choose-able so often. To quickly explain:

Over 70% of all clinical psychiatric diagnoses in the U.S. are "Depression due to an underlying physical, medical illness" hence the majority of the time it's a symptom of physical illness. So to convince me that Depression is something minor, quickly passing, or choose-able you'd have to first convince me that Multiple Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, etc. are minor, quickly passing, or choose-able.

That article really embodies what I dreaded seeing when this topic started: the implication that no one suffering from physical illness should ever be helped because their physical illness is minor, quickly passing, or choose-able.

edit: A quick reply to the above poster: read up on Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis before saying Depression always ends with a realization that suicide isn't the least bad course of action. Or at least, don't call your Optimism "realistic."

edit 2: Sorry, The Proffesor. That was confrontational of me. It's just that the way you describe it is very unrealistic in a number of ways.

edited 16th Feb '11 8:07:38 PM by colbertimposter

Uh, I wouldn't say depression always comes to some magical 'do or die' moment. Lots of depressed people oscillate in and out of their depression, or stay depressed and even suicidal but cannot take the final plunge. Completely recovering in an epiphanic moment is unrealistic to me. It takes time and coping, sometimes medication and often outside help.

^ I totally know what you're talking about. That article had some good notes about some of the mental thought processes of depressive people, but it's coping' and reasoning tips were horribly naive.

Depression can certainly sprout from guilt; for example, survivor guilt of people whose family died in the Holocaust have certainly led to long-term issues and depressions, and sometimes even suicide. When guilt becomes irrational and prolonged is I think when it steps into depressive territory; it consumes your mood, your thoughts, drives everything else about you into the negative.

One way you could try to write the character is, well, the obvious method; try to get into their skin. Try to come up with all the things going wrong in their lives, and 'reasonable' conclusions of why they're the character's own fault, of why their world-view has been wrong up to now, etc.. If you can reason to yourself enough that you sound convincing, I think it'll help you write this more naturally. Depressed people honestly believe in the things that depress them, even if they seem crazy to other 'healthy' people. Their thoughts don't come from a vacuum; it all makes to themselves, almost factual. This is not like when someone fails on an important test and feels horrible about themselves for a few days; that's more like an emotional high, irrational. Depression is more like a complete state of mind, that envelops a person's entire identity for long lengths of time. It infuses every moment of their life in a usually-passive but negative way.

But, every person is different, and depression is a wide illness. There's lots of forms it can take. If you wiki it or look up articles, that should help you come up with helpful symptoms to your particular story.

<3 ali

I told him "realistic" depression. It sounded like he was going for a Crowning Moment of Awesome,and what I described is the optimal end to the depressed state.

I've had deep depression. I know how it is realistically. And I know that if you ever want to get out of it,you have take steps.

The thing is, I'm not really after a ephihanic moment. I mean, I have this scene in mind where after he beats the man, Alan takes all his aggression out in a gym and..well goes nuts. What I would like to know is how do you go about getting better? Is it hard to admit your depressed before deciding to see a shrink. Is a shrink the only thing that could help him through it.

The solution, if there is one, varies on the cause. Like with my examples, the solution would be curing their physical illness (but I mentioned incurable physical illnesses so as to trump Optimism).

The first thought that comes to mind for the story you've mentioned so far is him prioritizing what's important to him and focusing on just that/those. Aside from that, I don't know.

As for shrinks, I'd describe them as friends-for-hire, if that helps. The most accurate representation of shrinks I've seen in fiction is on the show Monk where Monk's breakdowns don't coincidentally happen in that specific hour per week he sees the shrink and it's more just somewhat ackward/forced conversation. Also, there's always the knowledge that they're only your friend because you're paying them in the back of your head, so a real friend ends up being more helpful.

Also, there are very few psychiatrists who do both the listening/talking and the prescribing. Most will partner up with one or more psychologists and then only do the prescribing. (Psychiatrists have a medical degree and can prescribe stuff while psychologists don't - psychiatrists are always more expensive because of this.)

And while relating to others going through the same thing helps, note that group therapy only works if all the participants are going through the exact same thing. For example, a patient with 100% chance of dying a slow and painful death over the next few months will accurately consider druggies as spoiled brats who don't have any idea how lucky they really are and hearing them reduce terminal illness ("disease") down to something minor and choose-able will be maddening.

I've never been to a psychologist/therapist/psychiatrist/etc. before, so I wouldn't be able to share legit experiences. But I would say, a psychologist/etc. could only be as helpful as the patient will let them be. Look at your character's personality. For example, there is the type of person that thinks psychobabble is a bunch of hogwash, is suspicious of strangers, and thinks that people should figure out their own problems or talk to 'real friends' than pay some schlub to ask "and how do you feel about that?". The only way you'd get someone like that to even see a psychiatrist would be if forced somehow.

There are those who grew up in a culture or atmosphere where it was implied that only 'sick and crazy people' need to see psychologists, and it's a total last resort. My family was like that, and even though I struggled with personal issues as a child, they and I never even considered therapy. When I heard of my friends who said they'd seen a therapist before, I was shocked and thought that they had some 'real issues' going on. These types of people could easily fall into denial that their problems 'aren't that serious' and they don't 'need that kind of help', even if inwardly they realize that they need some kind of help.

And then I've heard of people who said they didn't realize that some people thought having a therapist was a sure sign of 'problems'; that where they were from, it wasn't rare for 'normal, adjusted' people to just see a therapist for everyday issues, and that was totally normal.

Medicine is the only 'cure' for depression that I've heard of that can make quick and immediate changes to one's demeanor. Otherwise, it seems to take a while, recovery periods and working a person up.

Some people say no matter how much friends try to help, a depressed person can only help themselves. Others say a depressed person needs others to help them because that person is their own worst enemy. I've heard some previously-depressed people say that in order to change, they had to make an intentional 'step forward' out of their negative spiral. But then, sometimes with enough positive energy around them, and time, I think they can recover on their own slowly without even realizing or changing much anything. Look at the source of your character's problems, and that should help show you the solution to them.

Ohjeez, why do I always end up rambling? That's what happens when I come to tropeland at 4:00 AM =/ .

<3 ali

@Ali: Well before Alan had his freak Lab Accident that gave him his superpowers, he actually was a Doctor. A Diagnostician to be exact, so I think he'd be pretty open to the idea.

I think I might have it worked out though. Simply put, he limits his superheroing. He talks things out with his therapist, spends more time with Irene (repairing their marriage) and even gets some advice from Jerkass, older superhero Dean.

Like Colbert said, 70% of the depressed prblems come from physical ailments, and I figured out what Alan's was: He was tired and lonely.

I think I'm going well guys, thanks a bunch but our input is still appreciated.

I do think it's important to understand just how varied every individual case of psychological ailments can be. It's true that depression and many other afflictions do have some clear-cut symptoms, but it's also true that mental ailments are personalized in a way that most other diseases could never compare to.

It's equally important to make it clear enough to the audience that the character involved most very definitely is depressed, but depression is usually something that takes place over weeks and months, and the little ways it affects someone can vary widely. I think what I'm trying to say is that while there is a way to do it wrong, there is not a 'perfect' way to do it right. So for all this advice, perhaps you should stick with an eventual choice that resonates with you best.

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Before you get total creative license, though, I think it is good that you decided to treat the matter as realistically and as sensitively as you could.

The general disposition of someone with serious mental afflictions has been detailed fairly well here already. How your character will handle getting to any kind of counselor will be highly dependent on how he views that kind of thing individually: he may be the type who would only admit he has a problem until he physically beats the crap out of somebody, he may admit he has a problem but some deep-seated aversion to admitting that to others keeps him away, he may not even think of seeing a counselor until somebody on the street taunts him with "Go see a shrink, looney," only to have it hit him that, holy cow, he has one of those psychiatric problems, and seeing a shrink is probably a good idea. This is another highly subjective issue, but hey, this is your character, and there are a lot of different ways people react here. Maybe throw something you think would be best for the setting out there, and we can try to tell you why it would or wouldn't work.

The assessments of how psychiatrists and other counselors help have likewise been pretty spot-on. A psychiatrist can prescribe drugs, and many studies suggest that certain moods can often be improved with medication (there have been some rows lately over whether many depression meds do any good outside a placebo effect, but it's late for me, and I'm not sure digging up an issue like that would be good until you have a more general idea of where your character goes with this...), but often, if your character does not come into counseling with the mentality that they are going to change things or receive help, they might as well talk with any old stranger in that room for an hour every Tuesday.

When a person overcomes these problems, it is usually because their life has generally begun to improve (whether they caused it or not). Counselors can be a huge help, but often, they're more like facilitators, giving people decent advice, medication to ease up their mental state, and a place to mull over their problems and put them in perspective, if they do their job right.

The description of a downward spiral is usually considered pretty accurate; the idea is that as each new worry and ache piles up on someone's plate, they slowly have a harder and harder time focusing on good experiences, meaning that those happy times become more difficult to focus on, leading to further pains and worries about whether or not they'll ever be happy, etc. Given the physical sluggishness and aching that sometimes accompanies depression, and it's easy to see why some people feel like they'll never stop being miserable. A few studies also hint that people who are depressed will spend more time than usual being introspective, and while this sometimes helps them work through their problems, it can also cause them to accentuate the negatives of their present life.

A therapist can certainly help people reach a breakthrough, but usually, it takes a good many changes before someone can finally start looking up more often than not, once again.

@ Toodle: Thanks for the input Toodles! I have to admit though, I'm not really sure what you mean though when you ask to go into the setting though. How far do I go in explanation?

Sorry, I didn't refresh to see your latest post. It was mostly due to you seeming a little unsure about how to deal with your character's attempts to seek therapy, but if you think you have a handle on it, I'm certainly not about to doubt your judgment.

If you still want to share it and get some criticism, though, I'd be happy to try. If I'm on in any kind of timely fashion when it happens. Which unfortunately is not the likeliest of possibilities.

I'm sure other people here could probably pick up the slack, but no obligation or anything. There should be enough information to ensure that you're headed in the right direction.