Rename: Eccentric Mentor

I'm sure this is vastly surprising, but as far as I'm concerned, Character Named Tropes are bad and whoever named them should feel bad. If there's misuse to support getting rid of it, then that's all the better.

Given the stats above, I just don't see the point in making excuses for this one. It needs to go. Also, the example section looks like a grocery list.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Unless someone wants to revise my latest claims about the earlier example check, really unneccessary wicks were only 2 out of 22.

That's not just average, even Exactly What It Says on the Tin titles could accidentally gather that much misuse, but it's also less damaging than traditional misuse, as the character is an example of the trope, it just feels a bit out of place to reference it there.

For example, "Dumbledore is secretly gay" could always be rewritten as "Dumbledore, (the local Senile Old Master Hidden Badass) is secretly gay" or as "Dumbledore is secretly gay".

It's a bit untraditional, but neither of the three suggests a misunderstanding of the trope title.

edited 16th Feb '11 8:43:07 AM by EternalSeptember

So basically, what we have is no actually misuse, and two over enthusiastic Pot Holes. That's better than most tropes.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I think just some redirects would be good for now, and maybe some editing on the potholes if it really bothers anyone.

And seriously, I hope I am not being labeled a hater for being at first the only one defending the name of the trope. Because I earlier stated, I have no more love for the original name as I due the new suggestion. I just feel it's a bit unnecessary-and for those who aren't fans of Harry Potter, I think that problem can be fixed with having some redirects.

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.

Well, The Umbridge had the same problem, and we ended up renaming that one. Granted, she has less Pop-Cultural Osmosis than Dumbledore as well, but people who aren't familiar with Harry Potter probably shouldn't be expected to associate him with eccentricity and weird mannerisms.

edited 16th Feb '11 12:18:46 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

The Umbridge also had a greater incidence of being potholed where the trope didn't fit in context. While Dumbledore only had two over-enthusiastic Pot Holes out of 22, she had about 15 out of 20.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

We don't have The Umbridge thread anymore, bt IIRC, that also had traditional misuse, it was mixed up with Sadist Teacher.

Putting aside the rest of the arguments for and against for a moment, I take issue with this mentality. If you're saying that this trope name works, misuse is tolerable, and so on, that's one thing. But if you're saying "well fine, it works only for Harry Potter fans, but the rest can have a redirect", that's not kosher.

Redirects solve a very specific class of title maladies. They're not a magic solution that lets us have our cake and eat it too.

edited 16th Feb '11 1:18:51 PM by TripleElation

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

Dumbledore is a sub-trope of The Mentor: the Main Page defines DD as a Mentor who is a bit mad, the next most noteworthy mad mentor is T. H White's Merlin. But "Merlin" won't work as a trope name because there are a million versions of Merlin. "Mad Mentor" fits the trope definition but it is bland and boring name compared to "DD". I votes for interesting trope-names.

Gandalf and Excalibur movie Merlin both give Hero useful and accurate Info Dump.

Compare and contrast Obi Wan with DD in book 7: both send The Hero on a mission to kill Dark Lord; both tell Hero that darkLord killed Hero's father; both omit a vital bit of info.

Obi Wan applies Jedi Truth. Luke defies The Mentor and rescues Vader with the Power of Love. Dumbledore applies the "Greater Good", insists that Harry has the Power of Love and only confesses that he plans for Haryy to die when Harry is incapable of defying The Mentor.

As I read the page, being a mentor is not a requirement for being The Dumbledore. It's a character trope, not a plot role; most of the time The Dumbledore is the mentor just because that's the standard narrative slot that old, hypercompetent people fit into.

The best pithy name I can come up with is Wise But Weird. Or possibly vice versa.

edited 16th Feb '11 4:49:42 PM by Micah

132 is the rudest number.

Agreed

This the trope reads as someone who is an eccentric or senile old man who people just leave alone because they see him as useless or ineffective (No master required) but really a hidden badass when he wants to be. The Trope Namer is what is making this confusing since Dumbledore is seen as many things.

Hence my suggestion of Senile Old Guy Hidden Badass.

edited 16th Feb '11 4:53:37 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

I prefer Weird But Wise.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Senile Old Guy Hidden Badass comes across as a confusing snowclone. Support Wise But Weird (I think it has a better ring the Weird But Wise, personally).

Senile Old Guy Hidden Badass is terribly unwieldy, imo. Weird But Wise might work, but it also seems like it might get confused with Bunny-Ears Lawyer and such.

Am I alone in thinking that "Senile" doesn't fit Dumbledore at all? Senile means clinically diminished mental capacity, generally with some loss of independence which I don't believe Dumbledore suffered from one bit. And I'm not sure how entirely "wierd" he was either "Weird but wise" brings to my mind first characters such as Mr. Miyagi, Lu Tse...

(goes and reads the trope page) I guess I'm not too far off; both those examples are there. But I'm still not sure about Dumbledore and weird. It's been a while since I've read the books though.

The other reason I favor Wise But Weird - it puts the emphasis on the "wise", not the "weird", at least as I read it.

Dumbledore is definitely weird.

Dumbledore: Welcome to a new year at Hogwarts! Before we begin our banquet, I would like to say a few words. And here they are: Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak! Thank you.
Harry: (To Percy) Is he — a bit mad?
Percy: Mad? He's a genius! Best wizard in the world! But he is a bit mad, yes. Potatoes, Harry?

edited 16th Feb '11 10:29:39 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Badass Fuddy Duddy?

I love all those names proposed :) much more self explanatory

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

Except that badassery isn't a requirement (though again, it's a common feature).

132 is the rudest number.

What about Senile Badass?

No...that's an oxymoron. I really don't believe Senile should be in the title at all.

Will toss out "Old, Weird And Wise", because Wierd But Wise is missing that part.

edited 17th Feb '11 5:40:10 PM by Elle

Its an important part of the trope that they have to be seen as that by their enemies.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

No, it only says that they "often feign senility and weakness". To have in the title wouldn't make it sound like they were faking it.  ^*

edited 17th Feb '11 5:47:08 PM by Elle

Well these guys are the real thing, fake it, or just come off as so eccentric so that their enemies let down their guard then when the time comes they show exactly what they can really do.

Hmm Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass says

which explains this trope so much better than the trope itself its not funny. (and no way would I have got that from the name.)

edited 17th Feb '11 6:30:02 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!