Christian tropers, join together!

'Shout To The Lord' is one of my favourites. Also 'You Are Mine' by David Haas. Eagle's Wings.

@ pvt: this

@ KCK: How d'ya like it?

HEY LOOK I FOUND SOMETHING I LIKE.

Uhh... Does Baba Yetu count?

@Yarrun I enjoy it for the most part; they seem a lot more liberal than the Baptist church I used to attend.

'sup.

@pvt: "And Can It Be That I Should Gain", "Jesus I Lift My Eyes" (yes, I only discovered that one when Jars of Clay covered it), "It is Well", and "How Great Thou Art" come to mind. I prefer stuff with a bit of gravitas.

Oi. Christian people. Where can I find a short outline of the bible, so I can understand references in books, and not actually have to read the darn thing?

Lots of stuff happened in seven days then gets drowned out by a flood six chapters later, boring genealogy, slaves in Egypt cut loose, Hebrew laws are hammered out, lots of wars happen, Moses does stuff, prophets do stuff, Job has the worst midlife crisis ever, Solomon writes self-insert porn, more prophets do stuff, more genealogy, Jesus does stuff, Jesus dies, Jesus doesn't die, apostles take over and organize things, Paul writes a ton of Strongly Worded Letters, John has an acid trip.

And that's the Bible.

Actually the last one is less acid trip, more highly metaphorical prophecy.

@Radd: Yeah, another Methodist! Although American Methodism is very different from UK Methodism but whatever, close enough!

I'm an old fashioned fuddy-duddy, not a huge fan of worship songs. I find them difficult to identify with and even more dfficult to see them as worshipful. But each to their own. Being a Methodist, it is my firm belief that you cannot go wrong with a Charles Wesley hymn such as And Can It Be, Love Divine or Ye Servants Of God, all of which, as Meta put it, have gravitas by the bucketload. Also, sung liturgy, while very high church, is still something I like to sneak to my local Anglican cathedral and indulge in occasionally.

edited 12th Feb '11 2:46:28 AM by Saeglopur

Born and raised Baptist here, but with shakier faith by the day.

Shakier? Why?

Meh, I dunno. Just kinda the whole "science has logical theories and explanations to prove God doesn't while all Christianity does is says "THAT'S NOT TRUE IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE GOD IS REAL" thing. I dunno, maybe it's just a funk.

edited 12th Feb '11 5:26:32 AM by chocoboxxx

Science doesn't have anything to disprove the Bible. It also doesn't have anything to prove it. I thought it was generally agreed upon that trying to scientifically prove or disprove the Bible (or God) was a waste of time.

I guess it is. You're right.

You don't seem convinced.

Science has nothing to do with religion and vice versa. You can't use either to disprove the other, and in no way should you try to.

Non-practising Catholic. Apparently I'm 'lapsed'. Maybe I shouldn't be posting here.

The Bible is a religious text, not a scientific one.

And given that it describes God as an unchanging, faithful, constant being, it makes sense that the universe that such a being would create would follow certain logical, rational rules.

Christianity and science are not contradictory, despite what many people, religious and atheist alike, would have you believe.

I'm an old fashioned fuddy-duddy, not a huge fan of worship songs. I find them difficult to identify with and even more difficult to see them as worshipful. But each to their own.

I pretty much agree with you 100% on that one.

edited 12th Feb '11 9:03:02 AM by Zudak

Science doesn't have anything to disprove the Bible.

To look at the problem a little closer, I think there's a few layers to it we're not touching on.

Historically speaking many of the items in the Old Testament do not enjoy great archeological support. Obviously, we an almighty deity, all things are possible. However, "semi-historical" is a word I see quite often when the OT is discussed for it's historical value.

The New Testament enjoys better evidence, with people spending more energy on arguing over the authenticity of various biblical sources and exact natures of the people in the Bible.

I think with those who know of the archeological disconnect tend to be focus on the message of the Bible and accept it as the most important aspect (depending on their motives for digging this deep, of course.)

Science as a collection of observable patterns has little use for religion as it rarely helps shed light on various theories. Some people take this as a sign that science has "disproven" religion, when really it's just showing that it can find language to talk about patterns in reality without resorting to religion. People who assume a creator deity has been "disproven" by science are confusing "Science" and "logic."

Logic has been used to established the existence of a creator deity, but also to attack those argument. Logic used to attack a creator deity often is in the form of Occam's razor often used incorrectly to establish "proof" (Occam's razor does not deal in proof, only probability) that a sort of non-explanation for how the universe came to be is more likely then a deity (which is sort of an explanation in itself).

I hope I didn't come off as insulting or condescending. I just spend way too much time arguing about this stuff and felt like contributing.

I think with those who know of the archeological disconnect tend to be focus on the message of the Bible and accept it as the most important aspect

To be honest, empirical falsehoods in the Deuternomic History (Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings) would be somewhat problematic. It's an ancient work of history, and if God inspired a history book, we wouldn't expect it to be error-prone while a non-inspired historian like Thucydides isn't.

Now Genesis, that's actually in a whole different literary genre.

Personally, I don't like a lot of old hymns. They seem to take oodles of words to say very little. Particularly Marian hymns, which reminds me. Any tropers know of some modern Marian hymns? I was looking for them when I was organising a mass, and all I could find were "Gentle Woman" "Hail Queen of Heaven" and endless Hail Marys.

Martin Luther's "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" is an awesome hymn:

My favorite hymn? Amazing Grace. Yeah, a cliche answer I know.

I would put Amazing Grace as the supreme winner, but I figure that there is at least one gem out there that tops it.