Pagan Tropers Unite!

Oh, the Folk. They're as good a reason to switch to paganism as anything.

Indeed. Them basically going "yo dawg, this is some nice grey matter you have here, let me poke it with a stick" is what kicked it off.

...Speaking of the Folk.

At least I know this guy isn't one of them.

... I know it's terribly cruel of me to be using your internal struggles as entertainment, but you really have no one but yourself to blame when you tell strangers that you talk to someone who amounts to Kyo in your head.

Well, who else was I supposed to ask? Someone called out my other pagan forum for going "Learn to listen to your inner voices! :D", but when someone actually DID it and needed help understanding it, they completely ignored the spiritual aspects of my problems in favor of "GET A THERAPIST NOOOOOW."

And Moritz is pretty much a Knight in Shining Armor crossed with The White Prince when he's not turning into a bear.

The main candidates as to Moritz's identity are:

• Various Celtic bear-gods. (Being my religion and all.)
• Various German bear-gods. (He's blond and pale-skinned, and he lets me call him Moritz.)
• The Native American Bear Spirit. (Since he turned into a grizzly.)
• King Arthur or similar figures. (Arthur has roots as a Celtic bear-god, and I don't think Moritz is a Knight in Shining Armor for nothing.)

General consensus is that "Bears are old mofos."

He still won't tell me his name (if he has one). He just wants me to stop freaking out right now.

Interesting fact: I realized that his hair is honey-blond. Which makes perfect sense now.

edited 11th Aug '12 3:14:56 AM by Sharysa

Oh, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, to be sure. I'm pretty sure the sum total of people reading your updates on the Voyage of Self-Discovery front just to see what happens next is one, including me. And the Kyo thing was just my lame attempt at being funny. Everyone else can give you good advice, I hope.

Maybe it's just because I'm Canadian, but when I think princes who're bears I think of a polar bear in particular. I cannot remember the name of the movie for the life of me, but it's totally based (loosely) off the tale of Psyche and Cupid. Does anyone else remember the flick I'm thinking of?

Well, there's a huge difference between genuine interaction with other planes of existence and general nuttiness.

They're fairly obvious from the outside, too.

I must say, it makes me chuckle a little remembering you describing Moritz as someone who could give you a "bear hug" a while back.

...Holy shit.

Also: It turns out Martha is also some sort of goddess/spirit. I can't help feeling that Melchior, Wendla, and Hanschen are as well, because they've featured so prominently in my visions.

I had a dream where Moritz and I were walking in a redwood forest, and I asked if he lived here. Moritz went, "Yeah, I like it here!" in that "just moved from Wisconsin and omg shiny beautiful California" manner. Which means he's not a North American spirit.

Then things went fuzzy, and then he and Martha took me to a sapling growing in the middle of a pool. I couldn't make it the (supposed) few steps across the water and I couldn't reach the branches without their help.

They kept calling it "the quicken-tree," which means it should be some sort of rowan, but the berries looked more like raspberries. And they tasted really astringent/bitter.

I woke up with that taste in my mouth and I haven't been able to get rid of it all day.

Edit: So it turns out that visually, rowan berries match the ones in my dream—it's just that the ones in my dream were much smaller if they could be mistaken for raspberries. And apparently, raw rowan IS extremely bitter.

The hell? Rowan doesn't GROW in California.

edited 12th Aug '12 3:17:14 AM by Sharysa

If I may ask, is the concept of blasphemy part of Paganism, and if so, is there any sort of consensus about what it entails?

If you say bad things about Them the They may or may not kick your arse. Generally, classifying and/or punishing 'blasphemy' is the Gods own discretion.

I don't think most of Them care: children say stupid things, after all.

Depends on the god.

As always, Do Not Fuck With The Morrigan.

Most of the other gods are much more lenient. Except for the Greek gods; those guys are dicks.

Ah, thank you.

I was going to disagree with you there, and then I thought about it for a little while. And...yeah.

Though to be fair, all gods can be dicks. The Greek deities just tend to be more emotional, I think, than others.

But as far as blasphemy goes, well, it isn't "sinful". That's not to say a pagan (or anyone, really) should blaspheme, though - it's disrespectful and can be a bit rude. I don't fear fire and brimstone for blaspheming, or a lifetime in Hell, but it might cause me to drop a few points in whichever deity's favor until I suitably make up for it and they accept my apology.

Which could very well take a long time, depending on the deity. Might be that I would be constantly stuck in horrible traffic and burdened with far-away parking spots for several weeks if I ever insulted Mercury, but that's it.

But in all honesty, that's the worst case scenario. Each deity has a different personality; I'm sure many of them don't give a rat's ass.

edited 13th Aug '12 11:05:24 AM by Iulla

Rapey lightning bolt now en route, no doubt.

Remember that business in the Illiad with the poisoned arrows? Some of them can get really shirty.

edited 13th Aug '12 11:03:33 AM by InverurieJones

Yeah, all these examples of how childish and snitty they can be just started coming into my head, one right after the other, like an avalanche. That was a horrible experience :(

edited 13th Aug '12 11:10:18 AM by Iulla

I dunno about Neopaganism; but if I remember correctly, in antiquity the myths about the Greek deities were generally considered metaphorical explanations of metaphysical issues, not factual accounts. This was especially true of the philosophers, even very ancient ones (such as Xenophanes, for example, although he was especially critical about this), who did not have any problems pointing out that some of the acts attributed to the gods, if taken at face value, were not laudable at all.

And let's be frank, Paganism is not the only religious family whose myths, if taken at face value, paint an image of the Divinity that is not altogether wholesome

edited 13th Aug '12 11:17:08 AM by Carciofus

I'm fairly certain that many neopagans also believe that myths are more metaphorical than factual. I've seen a lot of people get shot down for taking the myths seriously. And the Romans thought that way, too, especially the poets.

That's, for the most part, how I am as well, though I do think there is some truth to the myths (guidelines or small kernels of personality, mainly).

Good point :)

"Smite me, O Mighty Smiter!" -giggle-

edited 13th Aug '12 11:23:06 AM by Iulla

Yeah, the Names of Netjer (Egyptian deities) sort of facepalm if you take the myths literally.

I'd say, definitely, that the majority of pagans consider blasphemy to be a matter between the god(s) in question and the person uttering them, rather than something that humans should be getting vengeance for on the gods' behalf.

However, I'd also say that there's a difference between believer blasphemy and non-believer blasphemy; the latter isn't pointed at the gods, but rather at the believers. As such, it may fall into prohibited religious discrimination, if part of a campaign to make pagans feel unwelcome.

Ah, I see. And how would you define blasphemy, as such? (Apologies if being over-inquisitive.)

My personal definition is deliberately insulting the gods. Insults to those who follow them are not, by that definition, blasphemy; nor those to institutions, organizations or the like.

Not believing in the gods is not blasphemy. Neither is having a different idea about what they're like than I do.

In my view, the gods are quite capable of defending themselves and don't need my defense. On the other hand, most of the time, someone is not intending to insult the deity, but the believers. That's called being an asshole.

Ah, I see. Interesting. Thank you. So you don't have the belief that taking their names in vain (eg 'oh gods') is blasphemy?

Not at all. The gods aren't dicks to that degree, and people have been doing that from the beginning of time.

I suspect that the e.g. Christian issues with that have to do with offense to man, not offense to their god.

So someone FINALLY sat down and explained why I always come off as pushy, immature, or incoherent on my main pagan forums, and why everyone keeps telling me I give Info Dumps or Too Much Information.

I then realized that they'd all been ragging on me to conduct myself better when I had no idea how to conduct myself in the first place, because I never told them that I've spent seven years in spiritual isolation.

edited 13th Aug '12 5:06:47 PM by Sharysa