The Arab Spring

^^^

Well, when the alternative is the Muslim Brotherhood, I can see why the US would throw some support his way, especially with how much all the other countries there hate us.

Wow...that was impressive.

I still cant understand how the Army and Police can be two seperate factions.

I assume its not like America where they are both funded by the government? Or is there some corruption in the police? I'm confused.

Definitely. If there was some clear strong leader the people liked who was NOT part of that brotherhood? I can see America easing its shoulders a bit.

edited 29th Jan '11 1:52:40 PM by Thorn14

From what I understand the police are very corrupt. Nobody trusts them.

edited 29th Jan '11 1:57:42 PM by Yamikuronue

That video was really good to see. I've never met any Egyptian Soldiers, but they do have a good reputation for being disciplined and well-trained.

There's a different mentality, these cops have been dealing with the best and worst of the civilian populace, and if all the reports are true, they are brutal sons of bitches. The military don't interact with the civilian populace in an official capacity, so they essentially don't hate civilians and acknowledge it's their job to protect them.

We're not the same for those reasons, at the end of the day our duty to protect our own people is more important than any foreign war, and that rings true for any military group that isn't filled with corruption.

Also, when we're off-duty, civilian cops have authority over us, too. Those soldiers have probably seen the Egyptian police' behavior first-hand.

edited 29th Jan '11 1:59:20 PM by Barkey

&

I guess I should not be thinking of this in an American mindset then. Maybe thats why I'm so confused.

That's also an American mindset.

I'd fuck cops up if they started shooting civilians.

It really made me smile to see the Egyptian Army standing guard over the Cairo Museum and clearing it out of looters.

But is it an official policy?

It's not, but it isn't a policy in Egypt either, it's what we like to call a "command decision".

Which pretty much means doing what you think is right.

Right now the army is attempting to walk the thin line between doing their job and protecting the people. There are reports saying that there are multiple factions emerging in the army, some being pro-government while others being more supportive of the protestors. From what I have seen however, if forced to make a decision, a majority of soldiers are choosing the latter.

Many soldiers are disgusted by the actions of the police, especially as reports emerge that many of the looters are in fact plaincloth cops trying to make the situation seem more chaotic so that Egyptians will beg the President to stay in office.

On a different note, a Marine Expeditionary Unit is on standby to evacuate US nationals if need be.

edited 29th Jan '11 2:08:19 PM by Pentadragon

They are dancing the line as best they can, but it looks like soon someone is going to have to draw a line in the sand.

Shows how jaded I am. The whole time i was watching the vid I was waiting on the army to fire on the civs.

If the MEU is ready to roll I hope no one messes with the U.S. embassy that would not go well. But it seems like the citizens revolt is aimed at the leadership of their nation and not the embassies for the time being.

On the burning and looting it is fine to torch the cop cars too. But still a little more care with your fire :P

I saw the museum I am mildly upset as an individual who studied history.

Anyone else getting the sense of if I can't have it whole you will only get it broken?

Ouch Ori.

edited 29th Jan '11 3:15:36 PM by TuefelHundenIV

That's not that much jaded, and more like Wrong Genre Savvy. I also expected that there must be a twist like this at the end, but this is not a movie.

Egyptian State Television is broadcasting the names, faces and addresses of suspected looters. I cannot honestly understand what the strategy is here.

Perhaps they are trying to redirect the anger?

How do we know the individuals being blamed are even looters?

edited 29th Jan '11 3:23:09 PM by Pentadragon

Kudos for the military there keeping cool heads. I can only hope that it lasts.

I am impressed with the overall level of restraint shown by the people and military alike. Hopefully the number of military supporting the protesters outweighs the number who don't. Want to bet the pro government side is top heavy.

CMOA for one group of protesters who blocked a second group from looting / vandalizing a King Tut museum exhibit. An army unit was moving into the area, and seeing what was happening, they took a position across the street and pointed their vehice mounted guns straight up. At another museum, the army troops are holding hands to form a living wall.

I don't imagine there's much chance this will end well, but I ask those of us who pray about such things to pray for the people of Egypt - and any innocent foreigners who find themselves affected by all this.

Actually there is a decent chance it could end well but right now it is chaos. The thing that needs to be guarded against is outside forces prolonging or complicating the event.

@Teufel: What is Top Heavy?

Is Israel keeping a low profile? One would think they would be... poised, in such a situation, especially if the rioting spreads to Jordan. And if Hexbollah completes its current manoeuvers successfully in Lebanon. The people surrounding them do not care for them. But if the governments, who had been friendly for a long time, stop being so... I don't like the idea of a nuclear power feeling nervous. A rekindled Arab League or United Arab Republic would be worrying.

The USA are in a bit of a catch-22 here. No, more of a crossroads. If they support Mubarak, this will send a strong message that the USA will support its allies no matter what. That they are reliable. This is good for stability. The stability that serves their interests, at least. If they support the revolution, it will send a strong message that the USA have started caring democracy and freedom. This will be very good for their PR, and, if the revolutions succeed, for their foreign policy in the Middle East. It will also remove ammunition from the fundies. In fact, it might help slant the new governments against the fundies and in favour of the USA.

The more I think of it, the more it appears to me that supporting the "Change" and "Liberty" and opposing "Tyranny" might be the best bet for Obama (appropriately enough), and America. Whether the revolutions succeed in becoming healthy democracies or not, even.

By top heavy I mean lots of mid to high ranking officers and high ranking NCO's.

I still cant understand how the Army and Police can be two seperate factions.

Because those are SECRET Police fighting with the protestors, and the Army is mainly conscripts who sympathize with the protestors.

I think the US government will probably Take a Third Option and just stand on the sidelines and mouth platitudes. That seems to be Obama's default foreign policy position.

edited 29th Jan '11 5:12:14 PM by silver2195

It's still better than the predecessor.

In some ways, I'm rooting for the Egyptian people.

In other news, every time I've seen footage of the chaos in Egypt I've had Sepultura's Refuse/Resist stuck in my head.

As long as the transfer happens without things going completely to hell. That is, a civil war breaking out or widespread, uncontrollable looting. Thats my biggest fear right now.

EDIT: Damn you Mubarak, just see the writing on the wall and leave already. Its best for everyone.

edited 29th Jan '11 5:29:43 PM by GameChainsaw