Star Trek

To be fair, the Synths in Picard were kind of clearly established to be non-sentient apart from Data (until the lost colony of Zoong-type android was discovered that is). During the Silver Age and specially in VOY (but also a little on DSN) it was kind of holograms were the are they / are they not sentient debate came from which even included a rebellion. For me this was kind of more interesting than the typical android and more creative. Also the prohibition of synths, which apparently was galactic-wide if we believe Jurati that there was a galatic-wide treaty (how did they manage the Dominion and the different powers of the Delta Quadrant to sign it is another matter), refer to those with positronic brains like Data I guess holograms and non-android AI like the exocomps and Agimus are excluded. But it will be interesting to see how that is implemented because apart from Data the Federation has AI that are considered sentient and citizens they're just not humanoid, like the Excomps. BTW what ever happened to those cute little robots we see in Discovery that happened to be sentient and even defended the ship? I mean I know why we don't see them in TOS-TNG-DSN-VOY but why doesn't they appear in any of the other Nu Trek shows?

The long-lost 3 foot Enterprise model may have been found. It showed up on an eBay auction from an account that auctions storage locker contents. They appear to have no idea what they had and the auction has been taken down.

This was used for the two TOS pilots. The 11 foot model used for the main series is in the Smithsonian.

Wonderful. Like something straight out of Antiques Roadshow.

Man, they are serious about wanting you to experience new episodes of Star Trek on Paramount+, and only Paramount+, and that's it. You can't even buy episodes of these shows outright, even Strange New Worlds whose new season was months ago iirc.

It's a mite surprising. Like, even Disney lets you buy new episodes of stuff as they come out, even if they're also supposed to be viewed on Disney+.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 8th 2023 at 7:42:52 AM

What do you mean? You can't buy them to have them available indefinitely?

Paramount+ is one of the only streaming services that semi-reliably does home video releases. They just schedule it like the home video releases for normal broadcast TV. A season finishes airing and then you wait a few months to buy it. That's normal.

Also, I have to ask, what Disney+ stuff are you talking about buying? Because the Mandalorian is only now getting a blu-ray release, years after the first season came out. Disney+ original movies sometimes get an independent release, but I'm not aware of any original shows that do, especially not that quickly.

So... I actually watch all the new Star Trek stuff on CTV Sci-Fi channel (formerly known by the infinity better name Space, before it got bought out by CTV) since they air on that channel up in Canada.

At the very least, I've been able to buy Disney Channel stuff like the week they came out for years. If there was an episode of Owl House or whatever I wanted, it was available on Amazon or Apple TV within days of release.

Admittedly, I've never tried for something as big for Disney+ as Mandalorian. Loki isn't for sale yet, so maybe it just depends.

Disney Channel stuff is treated differently than Disney+ originals.

The Owl House was a linear broadcast show, not a streaming original. You could buy episodes right after they came out because if you missed the broadcast, you could spend money to catch up.

Star Trek (and Halo) are best compared to the Disney+ Marvel or Star Wars originals, which are only getting home video releases now, years after the initial release. Star Trek and Halo got full home video releases a couple months after each season.

Patrick Stewart Reveals New Star Trek Movie Script Featuring Jean-Luc Picard Is In The Works

I wish I could be more hyped about it to be honest.

May I ask why…?

Because I really dislike Picard season 3 and I don't want them to continue in that vein?

It seemed pretty vague on who was actually writing this script though. So maybe it's not Matalas.

What did you dislike about that particular season, if I may be so bold as to ask…?

I liked Picard S3 a lot but tbh that plot line is finished.

If it was a plot about his son and Seven I would be game for that.

I loved Picard S3, even though it wasn't perfect but I also knew what it was about — a send-off for the TNG crew, the way they deserved after Nemesis blew it.

But having another with Picard is just not what I signed up for.

I was looking forward to a spin-off headed by Matalas since then it'll be his own thing and I loved 12 Monkeys, IMO is the best time travel show I've ever watched (which is more representative of the kind of stories Terry and his team likes to write).

I'm looking forward to how he'll handle Seven and Raffi and the rest of the Ent-G crew because Katarina Jones, Cassandra Railly, and Jennifer Goines from 12 Monkeys were some of the more interesting and complex characters I've watched.

They could always still make the Picard movie another backdoor pilot for a potential Legacy spin-off if they involve Jack Crusher, or at the very least use the film to follow up on what Q exactly wanted with him.

In short, it's the moment they officially gave up. Picard Season 3 no longer tried to be it's own thing, tell it's own story or have it's own characters. They just threw up their hands and said 'you want a TNG reunion, here's your TNG Reunion'

So they spend 8 episodes building up a TNG reunion, including spending a lot of time justifying why Data can even be back and then... doing nothing but have them wax lyrical about awesome being together is and that's it.

The plot line of Picard and Beverly's secret love life is a hackneyed awful cliche. The season only seems to care about father/son love being greatest power in the universe. And then the big bad is... the borg... again. And blah blah blah, he rescues his son from assimilation by the power of the love while the Enterprise-D plays Millenium Falcon inside a borg death star.

They have to pretend the previous season didn't happen to make it even remotely work, and the solution of "just shoot the borg" is much less interesting that what season 2 already did.

Jack Crusher isn't remotely likable, we have to get rid of Picard's existing surrogate son Elnor to gfit him in, and then gets assigned to be Seven's bestest buddy on the Enterprise-G (and don't fucking get me start on how stupid the Titan A / E-G is) because... I don't know nepotism?

Like I'm only human, I liked seeing Worf back. I liked the DS9 references. I like Tuvok. But the finale made clear just how fucking empty and hollow all the fanservice really was.

I think part of the problem though was that engaging with the second season means dealing with how the start and the end don't fit together and whatever the hell that portal thing was. It was not a great choice of a plot element because it came right the hell out of nowhere right at the end of the season.

The show wasn't working as is on a lot of levels and while it was trying to do new stuff, only the first season sorta managed it and it still did this really nasty thing where it was like "hey, remember this character? THEY'RE DEAD NOW HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY" repeatedly. The third season took the easy route, but I'm wondering if the original plan for season 2 (because there's a very obvious swerve involved) was something considered just totally unworkable.

Edited by Zendervai on Jan 6th 2024 at 7:52:56 AM

I love too much the TNG cast to not like Picard, but there are still a lot of things I don't like in the series - first and foremost how gritty everything now is (like a former Starfleet officer becoming a drug addict - on Earth, not a remote colony). Then there is how all seasons are almost completely disconnected from one another, introducing very important points that are dropped in the next season (a bit like separate TNG episodes used to do, come to think about it). And season 1 takes great care to introduce new characters, half of whom get put on a bus at the beginning of season 2 and the rest not outliving it, save for Raffi.

Still, I found Picard's son to be a surprisingly likeable character by the end of season 3, and I hope to see more of Laforge's daughter. Nevertheless, as much as I like the TNG cast, I'm not sure what a Picard film would bring, apart possibly more grittiness and character deaths. It is kinda annoying that my two favourite current Trek series are cartoons, due to how close they are in spirit to my favourite era (TNG).

Edited by C105 on Jan 7th 2024 at 11:24:21 AM

The original idea for the Picard series was extremely exciting, Picard having to confront some grand mistake while dealing with their own mortality. For multiple reasons people were expecting it to be a Star Trek version of Logan, but it's also reasonable to assume it would act as a Sequel Series to TNG. I mean, why else would anyone greenlight a Picard series if they weren't hoping to attract TNG fans?

The issue is the first two seasons had pretty much no identity, the ongoing story arc was clearly improvised episode to episode and even the individual episodes didn't make any sense. Characters were written based more on how much they can engage with Misery Poker. And despite leaving out most of the TNG cast way too much of the story was built on namedropping old characters and plotlines anyway. The third season was better not just because they took the easy route and made it a Reunion Show, but the ongoing story was infinitely more coherent with good pacing and clean plot lines ^note Four episodes around the Titan vs Shrike battle, four episodes unraveling the greater Starfleet conspiracy, two episodes for the Borg climax. Each "mini-arc" can almost serve as it's own movie without further context, while minor subplots within are hinting towards later developments like the changeling on the Titan.. It's not perfect as it still falls victim to being really dense with continuity references and pointless nostalgic divergences ^note I'm fine enough with bringing back the Enterprise-D but renaming the Titan the Enterprise-G is almost insulting, the Titan's name has earned its' own place in Starfleet history and doesn't need to steal the Enterprise name. Seven also being made captain of the Titan/Enterprise-G is also sloppy fan-baiting., but compared to the first two seasons I consider it a satisfactory resolution and don't need another round of Happy Ending Overrides to push out more content.

A roundabout way of saying I'm not really interested in a Picard movie. Give him and other TNG cast members cameos in another project but we already reached the point of Passing the Torch to the next next generation.

The other element is that it's unclear when exactly in the process the showrunner passing the torch happened. Michael Chabon ran season 1 and did...some level of production on season 2 before Terry Matalas took over, but we have no idea where the dividing line is. Which might explain why season 2 is by far the messiest season and it helps explain the baffling detail that seasons 2 and 3 were shot back to back given that they have almost nothing to do with each other.

I do think season 1 is coherent, but it's not super engaging, and it has this really mean, cynical edge that feels really unfitting, while season 2 is a mess on almost every level, and season 3 has the best plotting and momentum.

Also, full stop, killing off Hugh and Icheb (especially the way they killed off Icheb) were huge mistakes. They both had a ton of storytelling potential that now can't ever be realized because...shock value for Icheb (?) and to I guess get Hugh out of the way?

I think what a lot of it boils down to is that seasons 1 and 2 really wanted to tell new stories but never really managed to justify themselves while getting increasingly sloppy and poorly done as they went on. Season 3 is a big nostalgia fest, but it's a competent and well paced nostalgia fest that still manages to do some interesting things with what's established. The first four episodes are brilliantly done and really would have worked as their own movie.

Edited by Zendervai on Jan 7th 2024 at 7:08:50 AM

I think season 1 was mainly saved by it's ending for me. It and Disco S1 has a thing where it really plays up the grimdark throughout the season to contrast hopeful Star Trekky endings.

I can't agree that S1 had no identity or that it's arc was improvised? It was pretty solid story. I thought.

Season 2 was more messy, it had a ton of good ideas, it just didn't really deliver on any of them. The borg arc was obviously planned as the through line with the other stuff more improvised. And I like the resolution of the borg arc as more than just "kill em all"

Season 3 is sort of the inverse of S1. Yes it's slick and exciting and it has the TNG cast but the ending just lets it down and makes it feel hollow and pointless and unsatisfying.

I can't agree it works as a series of mini arcs. Vadic's a threat all the way to what... episode 8? and as far as grimdark is concerned. The titan crew getting massacred over and over and over as bad and more unpleasant and unentertaining as anything in s1&2.

Vadic is a threat until episode 8, yeah, but her being a threat is clearly broken into two parts.

I think a lot of what I didn't like with season 1 was that it absolutely drew on nostalgia but did it in ways that weren't particularly transgressive or like...good? We get Icheb dying horribly, we get Hugh being brought in just to die as well. The end of the season is a use of nostalgia too. Like, it didn't have anything to say about the nostalgia, it's just "it was a different era" and nothing else, but because the nostalgia was so fixated on "bring back character, give them tragedy and/or trauma" that it just doesn't work. It's not celebrating the history at all, it's trying to dump it so no one asks why this character or that character don't show up.

Season 2 is just a mess. I agree that a lot of the ideas were good, but it obviously had no idea how to actually leverage any of them, and the reason it's so obvious that the season wasn't properly planned out was because the set-up wasn't done right. Like, if there'd been literally any reference to like "hey, why are there two weird anomalies so close to each other" or anything at all to set up the portal, it might be less jarring. The thing about there being a watcher also comes right the hell out of nowhere and basically everything connected to that plot doesn't really make sense. Season 2 has a lot it wants to say, but it doesn't give anything enough time and a lot of what it does say is disappointing. (The idea that what saved the Earth after WWIII was a magic moss from Europa they happened to have in storage somewhere is pretty disappointing).

Season 3 figured out what it wanted to be going in, and because the season really is broken up into chunks, it doesn't have the problem of trying to run a long story arc. Instead it's "Encounter and escape the Shrike" "What's the deal with the Shrike and who is Vadic?" "Oh fuck, it's the Borg". It's identifying what to prioritize at which part of the story and it avoids the season 1 problem of "you didn't give us nearly enough to start with" and the season 2 problem of "oh my god, stop doing set-up, we're an episode and a half in and you're still giving us the set-up of the story." And a lot of the nostalgia stuff doesn't really start factoring in until near the end.

Edited by Zendervai on Jan 7th 2024 at 7:26:44 AM