Les Miserables (2012) film adaptation of the musical

you bring up an interesting point about how Crowe purposefully played his role gray, and I think this might be why I really didn't like his singing at the beginning. Besides just not having gotten used to the voice yet, I feel like his first scene is supposed to exude authority, and he tries to sing that way but can't.

@choobs: well, there's no way to sing Javert's part in the opening bits as non-authoritarian without screwing up the character. Crowe gave it a good try, but his voice just wasn't strong enough for the part. His decision to sing within his ability ought to get him an award; too many singers (including professional ones) over-estimate their talent.

While I didn't have any real criticisms of the film, I did have a couple sort of "huh?" moments at some of the choices Hooper (or whoever) made. First off, what kind of costume is a half-open Dread Pirate Roberts shirt for a father-daughter bonding scene? Well, actually, I know exactly what kind of costume it is, but certainly there'd be a better scene to invoke that trope? Second, there's this point towards the end where Gillenormand starts singing, which was a huge Big-Lipped Alligator Moment for me for some reason.

edited 30th Dec '12 10:22:16 PM by HamburgerTime

yeah, I mean all things considered he did what he could.

though the obvious answer to all this was to cast someone who could sing powerfully and then break down later :P

Saw this the other day and enjoyed it immensely. This is the first time I've seen Les Miz where I could stand Marius and Cosette. Interestingly, the young actor playing Gavroche sounded almost identical to the fellow who played him the the "dream cast" recording from the 90's.

I saw productions from that period...I don't know who was in it but man, there were some good singers. Let's just say my worries about Crowe blowing "Stars" stemmed from seeing it done on Broadway in 1994.

Redmayne definitely does a lot to make Marius more likable than usual. Seyfried probably does the same with Cosette, although to a lesser extent.

I don't think this version makes Eponine less sympathetic, although I think it does make her more pathetic. "On My Own" is presented as more clearly self-admittedly delusional, and the presentation underscores that her attraction to Marius is all about Because You Were Nice to Me- you come away sympathizing with her for her awful life more so than you do thinking she and Marius would make a great couple.

I loved loved loved this film. Anne Hathaway is amazing!

@Hamburger Time: You're everywhere on these forums!

Apparently the Eponine fangirls are mustering again. I can't really say why, because it's not like this movie gave them much ammunition. It came across, to me at least, as almost entirely pro-Cosette.

And I loved Seyfried's Cosette. She really seemed to be into the character, and had great chemistry with the other actors.

The problem with this film is that people like to hate on Crowe more than he deserves. Including my friends. The other problem is that extreme Les Mis fans (like my friends) relentlessly praise it as the best film ever made.

I disagree with both opinions, and am going to be demonised in my social life. Oh dear.

@Frogger: Agreed with the Crowe thing. Like I said, I respect him for taking the direction he did...and I'm not a Russell Crowe fan, I just think he gets more hate than is really necessary.

Also, I hear what you're saying about Le Miz fans. My mom -who always loved the musical- couldn't stop talking about how awesome it was. My opinion is people who already liked the source material will love the movie, and people who didn't won't.

It was a faithful adaptation. Extant fans will love it, newbies probably won't. There is a price a piece of work pays for averting They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.

Also, I am so sick of the Eponine fans. I know, everyone's been there and its easy to empathize with her (especially because Marius is probably the prototypical Clueless Hero) but grow the fuck up, people. Eponine's fate plays to the themes. Deal with it.

edited 31st Dec '12 12:41:28 AM by drunkscriblerian

Russel Crowe will always hold a special place in my heart for his work in Gladiator.

When I first saw the musical, I'll admit I took Eponine's side. I still think Marius/Eponine is a pretty cool pairing, but I realized fairly quickly that it just doesn't make any freaking sense from a narrative standpoint.

@Choobs: I hated Gladiator. But not because of Russell Crowe.

@Hamburger: then you've realized what a generation of high-school girls (my generation, though I'm a guy) haven't.

Also, from a realistic standpoint she probably just should have moved on. Marius hadn't noticed her when Cosette wasn't on the scene, and he probably wasn't going to. But neither her moving on or Marius shacking up with her would have served the story very well, like you pointed out.

The whole thing's about sacrifice, but it's also about how life is life...moping, pining and wishing doesn't change stuff, doing does. Example; when Jean Valjean was still stroking his hate-cock about how life had shat on him, he was every inch the piece of trash everyone took him for...he proves this by ripping off the priest. But when he actually tries to change his life, he takes that energy and does something with it...becoming a decent guy and using his ideas about right and wrong to actually help people. There was nothing wrong with his perspective, just what he was doing with it.

Admittedly, the whole thing's hamfisted, but that's the story. Besides, Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped.

edited 31st Dec '12 12:52:39 AM by drunkscriblerian

I've read some decent Marius/Eponine fanfiction, but none better than simply "above-average" because quite frankly I can't get past the fact that they all remove Valjean and Cosette (y'know, the characters the entire story revolves around?) from the equation. In fact, I actually can't think of a way for Valjean to complete his character arc without Marius/Cosette being a thing, so maybe M/E is doomed to forever be "decent at best"...

@Burger: if Eponine really wanted Marius, she would have said something to him rather than just the audience. But because she was used to getting everything she wanted handed to her (her parents spoiled her when she was younger, remember), she kept assuming Marius would just come to her like everything else had. She, like Javert, could not make the necessary shift in thinking (and commit to the action required) to change her life...so her life ended.

In the book and the stage play Eponine's death is a little less accidental. I forget how it happens exactly in the book (haven't read it in almost twenty years now) but in the play she is shot taking a stupid chance.

Again, the story beats the viewer over the head with the symbolism at times...but at least the characters aren't cardboard cutouts, and for that I'll forgive it being Anvilicious. It's actually not a bad morality play, all things considered...and that's saying something.

edited 31st Dec '12 1:08:19 AM by drunkscriblerian

Huh. I never really thought of it that way. That does make sense.

The story can be boiled down into the phrase "Everyone sins, and everyone suffers, but only some people manage to learn from it". Another trivia bit to keep in mind: Victor Hugo was raised in a household with a Napoleonic Imperialist for a father and Catholic Royalist for a mother...and he became a Freethought Republican later in life. So he did see all sides of the arguments he's presenting.

Ha!

You know, I've come to notice something interesting about people who whine about Love Triangles. I used to think that people got so vicious about the triangles because they like two of the characters involved, but I've since realized that's wrong. They usually only like one. Specifically, there's one character they like, one they don't (simply for opposing the character they do), and the third, the one in the middle, who they're pretty much indifferent to but see as a sort of "prize" for themselves - or rather, the "angle" of the triangle they identify most with. Like, have you ever seen one of these Eponine nutters take Marius's feelings into account? I didn't think so, because he's not a character to them, he's a side of prize beef.

That's not to say the Marius/Cosette contingent is entirely innocent; there have definitely been reports of "M/E shipper" being unilaterally equated with "Cosette-hater," even when that is not the case.

edited 31st Dec '12 1:42:26 AM by HamburgerTime

Great point. Marius loves Cosette. Sure, we all think he's clueless for it (and with good reason; the Marius/Cosette thing is a weak link in the story), but at the end of the day, he just wants his girl. Love blinds people...it's a fact.

I like Marius/Cosette more than Marius/Eponine, actually.

My only beef with the Marius/Cosette thing is literary..."Love at first sight" is a bad way to go. I let Hugo get away with it because he wrote the damn thing over a hundred years ago and it does serve the other themes he had rolling. Finally, that sort of thing does actually happen in real life, believe it or not. *

Otherwise, it serves the story nicely. I don't like Marius as a character because he's so clueless (a fact which the musical makes all too obvious), but he's still basically a good person; every time he realizes a situation that's unfair or a place he's gone wrong, he does try to correct it.

I saw this today and really enjoyed it. I have a CD of the soundtrack, and an anniversary concert DVD, but I've never actually seen the show.

Cosette... well, I can't say I was all that interested in the Marius/Cosette romance, because there simply wasn't enough there to be interested in. I found Eponine much more interesting (not that she should have 'got' Marius or whatever, I just found her more interesting).

The singing... was intense. I can see how people would dislike it, what with the way the camera never cuts away from their faces in the emotional ones. "I Dreamed A Dream" was like you were just watching somebody crying for two minutes; raw and awkward.

The Thenardiers... I don't know, they were weird. My mother actually asked me if "Master of the House" was a real song from the musical. I'm not sure whether that's just because I was expecting it to be all serious drama all the time, or if they actually were out of place.

I actually really liked Russel Crowe; probably better than Hugh Jackman.

Marius actually turned out to be my favorite character in the book. I had gone in hearing people say he was a jerk in the book, so I expected him to seem like a jerk to me, and he didn't. I found all his positions quite reasonable.

edited 31st Dec '12 2:46:05 AM by HamburgerTime

@Loni: Eponine's situation is more important to the story than Cosette's (at the time of the love triangle, anyway) so that's why we as the audience get more of it. I think that's also why people love Eponine so much as opposed to latter-day Cosette...it's because we're supposed to, just not in the way people usually do.

Also, with regard to "Master of the House"...yes, it's in the original musical. And yes, the song really is that bawdy. I've seen the musical four times and each time the cast did something different with the stage business on that song (note: all versions were crude comedy). I think its in there so the cast can have some fun, and they did. So yeah, the version in the movie was very much in keeping with the spirit of the song from the musical.

@Burger: Well, I'll give the actor who played Marius in the movie credit; he did a good job with what I felt was shitty material. I actually liked movie-Marius a bit...and again, I've seen the musical a bunch of times and I hated Marius all of the times.

edited 31st Dec '12 2:53:51 AM by drunkscriblerian