Trying to reconcile my Christian Deism with other religions.

No one deserves Hell. Any human being is capable of only finite sins; whereas Hell is infinite punishment. It is impossible for a mortal to deserve it.

What is Hell?

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Hell if I know.

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith

I don't think there's enough evidence from Scripture to conclude that Hell is a place of physical torment.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Obviously metaphorical.

Well, it's your beliefs, make something up. Or purgatory. Or limbo. Whatever.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

@Tetzte Making people cry and whine in a place with a heater and no night-lights? That's the best torture God can come up with?

edited 12th Jan '11 12:29:20 PM by KCK

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

The Bible is indeed pretty vague on the notion of Hell. The concept of Hell only really comes up in the New Testament, and there the information is at times contradictory, and in one instance explicitly metaphorical.

Does "everlasting fire" have to mean eternal torment? I'm not sure. I don't really see why it must.

^ That's not what the passage Tzetze quoted said. At all.

edited 12th Jan '11 12:33:59 PM by BobbyG

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That's not what I think of when I read «fiery furnace». Don't be demeaning.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

@Tzetze I'm not being demeaning, I don't believe in a fiery furnace but I do believe in hyperbole.

@Bobby G I'm well aware of that.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

"Well, no one knows for sure. But most people find a certain group of things to be morally black (unwarranted murder, rape, genocide, etc.)."

What Karalora said.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

I have actually come up with a (I think) consistent model of God.

The best answer I could come up with is that everyone goes to Heaven, with a sense of empathy. Think about this.

edited 12th Jan '11 12:57:43 PM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.

What Karalora said, plus:

If God sentenced those who had committed finite evil to infinite torment, that itself would be infinitely evil and therefore God would deserve Hell Himself.

Therefore at most Hell is finite and possibly it doesn't even exist. After all, why would an infinitely benevolent God, who hides all his activities from people, need to actually punish anyone? Would it not make more sense to claim people go to Hell but not to actually send anyone there?

Also: If you think learning about other religions will hurt your belief in Christianity, then you think implicitly that one of those religions is right and your belief in Christianity is wrong.

If you really believe that Christ died for your sins, nothing any other religion says can change that. If you want to believe that Christ died for your sins but don't, nothing any other religion says can change that either.

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

On Hell:

Many of the Fathers understood 1 Corinthians 15:28 ("When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.") as meaning Hell can only be temporary. If God will literally be all in all, the Last Day must involve the theosis of all fallen beings.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard

@Black Humor But why would God lie?

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Original poster, you may want to google for information on words translated as hell in the bible. It does make quite interesting reading.

"Hell must be a pretty swell joint, because everyone's always trying to keep you out of there." -Al Capone

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

@Micheal This man(?) speaks the truth; if more people studied about Hell and Heaven and realized just how much of the ideas about them are NOT influenced by Scripture, we actually might some headway in these discussions.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Truthfully, most of what we think we know of hell comes from either Dante or Milton. It's the very Trope Namer for Word of Dante.

I think it would be better if you just not worry about Hell too much, let God take care of the "evil" people. Seems to me a Christian should... be Jesus-like regardless of what happens to nasty people.

I guess what I'm sayin' is that wanting people to be punished is missing the point of Christianity, from the way I interpret what I've been taught. Hate the sin, not the sinner; turn the other cheek, etc.

edited 12th Jan '11 9:11:58 PM by melloncollie

That.

Also that.

edited 12th Jan '11 10:24:32 PM by Pykrete

Oh, that goes the other way as well. The motivation for acting Christian should be 'cos you love God and stuff, not 'cos you want to be rewarded. I think God would know who sincerely loves Him and who's just in it for the reward

@melloncollie He does; Christ had some pretty harsh words for those he considered "posers".

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Chagen, if I sounded condescending or elitist, please consider that English isn't my primary language. Although I think I handle it pretty well, it's difficult for a non-native speaker to find the right tone, especially on a sensitive topic. That being said, I took my time to look up a few theologically workable solutions for your dilemma, and shared some of my personal philosophy with you because you asked for advice - nothing else. I have a real-life ex-wife for showing my passive-agressive side. :) I'm neither laughing at your ignorance nor do I think you're stupid.

Bobby G (hey, you're the one who writes a lot of those nice Doctor Who reviews, yay), I know that the mono-and-then-some-gods-beneath-him-theistic interpretation isn't wildly accepted, but it is possible and not necessarily in violation of abrahamic doctrine. But since the same goes for believing that atheists might end up in heaven, I thought I'd mention it. I know some catholics who do pray to saints for help with certain aspects of life. Come to think of it, I might have done it myself a few times when I was a kid.

As for the "I don't care if you believe I'll end up in hell" thing - you're right, of course, I too find it kind of objectionable. But whether I care or not depends on who I'm being treated by someone who believes that. If it's a friend who likes me no matter what I don't believe, the situation is more difficult for him then it is for me. I've been there, actually, that's why I take part in this discussion. I care insofar (does this word exist?) as I don't like others to be hurt by the difference between their believes and mine.

Cheers, kurushio

edited 13th Jan '11 2:15:33 AM by kurushio

This line of thinking rubs me the wrong way. Don't know why right now.

edited 13th Jan '11 2:47:47 AM by ViralLamb

Power corrupts. Knowledge is Power. Study hard. Be evil.

Which part of it?