Complete Monsters

Can they exist in Real Life? And when I say monster I mean the kind of people who don't have an excuse for their actions, have no regrets for what they do, and just spring into life from seemingly nowhere. They don't even give a Freudian Excuse!

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Murderers are the closest one can get; taking a human life(senselessly!) is an action that goes against nature itself, and thus serves as it's own Moral Event Horizon.

So my answer? yes.

edited 11th Jan '11 12:49:01 AM by cutewithoutthe

No. people can be monsters but they never be complete monsters. You'll find shred of humanity in anyone like it or not.

edited 11th Jan '11 1:00:27 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

@Cute Alas, not every murderer—or killer rather—is a complete monster; some of them had justifications for their actions, others end up redeeming themselves.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Not all killers, but those who kill for fun certainly qualify. It takes somebody with no conscience and no regard for other people to think shooting another live human being is fun.

Yes, we call them sociopaths...or hitmen.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

@joey: there are killers who can literally feel no empathy at all. "Psychopaths gain satisfaction through antisocial behavior, and do not experience shame, guilt, or remorse for their actions" where is the shred of humanity?

I know that not all psychopaths, or people with APD, are crazy serial killers, some corporate executives and such things (no kidding). No guilt, no problem firing thousands of people to save money, right?

edited 11th Jan '11 2:04:26 AM by ZheToralf

You lost!

Everyone needs a little help.

Question is, is someone so irredeemable that they're considered a Complete monster?

Monster sure, but Complete, you need a LOT of Justification there...

Even if there are no "complete" monsters, there are some people whose crimes are so great that they might as well be.

@Cutewiththe: I don't think being a murderer puts you against nature. It puts a murderer against society, but in terms of nature it's a null action. The victim wasn't able to compete and in a way the murderer proved their superiority.

As for the question... no, I don't think you'll really find many people completely without redeeming characteristics. People that you have to treat as one to have a functioning society? Yes.

edited 11th Jan '11 4:14:24 AM by Arha

No. Or yes, but not as most people think about them.

Metaphors aside, a "moral monster" should also be a "person", someone who is responsible for what they did.

But anyone who has a chance to act like a decent person isn't a complete monster, even if they did wrong things, as long as they keep the chance for not crossing Moral Event Horizon

And anyone who already passed that horizon, and does such horrible things because mentally unable to resist it, they can't be held morally accountable. They are like a force of nature, a monster in the original sense, just like as a beast is a monster, but not as a despicable human being.

It doesn't really matter where you would personally want to place that horizon; at rape, murder, child murder, mass murder, etc.; but if we call someone irredeemable, it means that they don't need redemption to begin with, and they don't even deserve blame, hatred, or punishment, they just need to be stopped.

If there is a sociopath who enjoys murdering people for his own personal amusement, and doesn't even try to stop, calling him irredeemable makes as much sense as calling the bubonic plague irredeemable.

edited 11th Jan '11 5:39:58 AM by EternalSeptember

Is there a crime that's unforgivable though? Are you ready to hand out the judgment for that?

Joseph Mengele full stop.

i. hear. a. sound.

You mean, assuming that we know for sure that a horrible person is trying for redemption?

In an ideal world, we should, forgiveness is logical, and hatred is illogical. Even putting morality aside, there is nothing to be gained hatred, but, as Asimov said in TheCaves Of Steel: "the destruction of evil is less desirable than the conversion of evil into good."

The lack of forgiveness is just revenge.

Of course, we can't see into others' heads, so the best we can do is trying to guess, and factor in the witnessed behavior, professional analysis, and common sense, to a certain extent.

I'm not sure if I like how you phrased that, but I agree with you. There's no point to calling them unforgivable or anything, just deal with the situation cleanly and ethically instead of feeling they must be punished.

Not really.

Everyone has a Freudian Excuse, because human beings don't do things for no reason. Or they have some type of problem, which also keeps them from attaining Complete Monster status.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

@KCK: Hitmen kill for money, not pleasure.

Well, I think many people who commit horrible crimes have some kind of excuse, but some are just shitheads.

@washington So? They're still killers and I'm sure some of them get some pleasure out of their jobs.

@Talby There are no excuses for crimes, there are only reasons. Some people have better reasons than others for their crimes.

edited 11th Jan '11 11:56:02 AM by KCK

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Complete Monsters, as in "people who have no good qualities whatsoever", probably do not exist. At least this one hopes so. But there certainly are people with no redeeming qualities.

edited 11th Jan '11 11:58:18 AM by Beholderess

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

I'm fairly sure that many these killers also do it to fill up their ego, which is a fairly human trait. Also, most of them want to be alive rather than dead. Another human trait.

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It's a YMMV trope, so of course there are examples in meatspace. Who precisely they are depends on who you ask.

I agree with Tongpu. To expand on it: IMO, Saddam Hussein, Charles Manson, Mengele and others fulfil all the criteria in the Complete Monster description. I'm glad two of them are dead and one is stuck in prison. To their relatives or closest friends they ain't - it's all just enemy propoganda. They didn't look into his eyes as he said he loved me. They weren't there when he gave that heartfelt eulogy at our mother's funeral. They didn't get that money that kept us out of the gutter (and yet there might be a little voice somewhere in their heads that asks the question: what did he do to get that money?)

My definition of complete monster is VERY liberal.

You willingly kill a child or a defenseless person? That.

Beat up an elderly person? That.

It can only get worse from there.

Also, anyone who pulls off crazy shit (serial rapist or whatever) loses their rights to humanity, I feel.

edited 13th Jan '11 11:13:23 PM by Thorn14