Puella Magi Madoka Magica

I figured she never thought he'd buy it anyway, since Kyuubey doesn't really pay attention to things that have no proof....

except that she provided enough circumstantial evidence about things he'd probably been trying to figure out already (if he wasn't already curious about it) for him to start experimenting.

One Strip! One Strip!

It's funny, people talk now about how Homura should have known better than to tell Kyubey the good news of Madokami, but I do not recall seeing a single word about what a bad idea it was until Rebellion came out.

Don't see how that would be possible, given the isolation field. I assume they'd just end up like Sayaka and Nagisa, who after all are megucas who overdid it with the magic.

I do.

Huh. Fallible memory or different circles? The world may never know.

Speaking of Oriko, Yuuko Magica has been updated.

Aren't alternate universes fun?

edited 8th Nov '14 7:49:59 AM by Webidolchiu94

I always did wonder if we were supposed to think that Homura had told Mami and Kyoko about the Madokami as well, but probably not.

I'm disappointed, Tropers. Very disappointed

Yeah, probably not. In Oriko, everyone's just oblivious, and in Rebellon, everyone seems to "sort of kinda know", but I've not seen it in some time, so I cannot remember.

Man, has it really been a year since Rebellion came out? Time sure flies.

Looking back at it, I still maintain that it is one of the finest anime films to have ever been created. What say you guys?

Well it definitely is extremely well made.

And I certainly look forward to rewatching dubbed.

I certainly enjoyed it. And it made me go from merely revering Sayaka, to becoming infatuated with her.

How do the character stack as heroines and child soldiers?

"We are just like Irregular Data. And that applies to you too, Ri CO. And as for you, Player... your job is to correct Irregular Data."

To answer your question (or maybe not), I feel that the series brings to the forefront how these sorts of characters would react to these sorts of circumstances where everything isn't idealized, and also makes a point to show how they are essentially Child Soldiers who are unprepared to deal with the consequences of war.

Heck, the ones which have the most idealized view of being a hero (someone who always gives up personal wishes for the sake of others, and always fights for justice) like Sayaka, or who go to completely rely on such things like The Power of Friendship like Mami are the ones who are the first to fall, while the more pragmatic characters like Kyouko are able to cope more easily. That, or they have already gone through so many horrors that they are essentially numb to any sort of pain that these battles inflict on them, like Homura.

Essentially, the show is saying that the only ones who can handle war are those who either don't rely on childish ideals of heroism, and/or are already hardened on the inside. Really says something about the nature of war and how it affects those involved..

And yet, Magical Girl fans didn't send death threats to the creators when it ended.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Homura, Madoka and Kyouko do seem to be the most soldier like whereas Mami and Sayaka appear to be warriors.

Shinbo and Urobuchi do appear to be trolls but they have their limits. SHAFT would have to do something really crazy to get death threats from fans........Am I giving them ideas?

"We are just like Irregular Data. And that applies to you too, Ri CO. And as for you, Player... your job is to correct Irregular Data."

First, Mami doesn't really fill that role of warrior that much — rather, I think she fills the role of elder or mentor.

Second, while Sayaka does, I feel the show is kinda ineffective at making the point that it's trying to make, because it just feels like her choice to be "the hero" just happens so suddenly that it basically just happens and we're not really given any understanding of how it happens. So it feels more like an informed trait, like the story telling us here's a lesson that it's trying to get across.

I think the show was basically just a darker take on "what if the magical girl premise were justified differently?". As such, one could generalize it to the concept of child soldiers and the costs of (and unpreparedness for) war, but that seems more like a stretch.

edited 16th Nov '14 2:27:50 PM by GlennMagusHarvey

Well, Hideaki Anno got death threats just for having the gall to have a super robot show end with no super robots, no end-of-the-world threat, just one guy retreating into his mind to try and sort out the last few weeks of his life and decide where to go now.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

From what I've gathered, it is heavily implied that Sayaka wishes to be a hero due both her ideals, and having looked up to people like Mami, whom she sees as being the sort of selfless heroine that she aspires to be. Her disgust at Homura and Kyoko's behavior also strongly suggest that she dislikes anyone who acts selfishly.

How ironic is it then, that she herself made a selfless wish for a selfish desire. Her unwillingness to reconcile her ideals with reality is what led to her downfall. Even more ironic that Mami is exactly not the sort of person whose life you'd want to emulate, and Mami herself points out that acting as the selfless heroine all the time will lead to a life of loneliness with little time for yourself. The only reason Mami was able to go through with all of this is because she literally had nothing else, and had already experienced loss, while Sayaka didn't.

Again, the show, to me at least, seems to be suggesting that only those who have already suffered tremendously, and/or don't hold silly childish ideals of heroism are the only ones who are capable of handling the horrors of war. It may be a stretch, but hey, this is one of those shows that allows for interpretations like this.

I see where you're coming from.

And I know what you mean re interesting interpretations — I know that feel myself.

@maxwellelvis

I suppose but Madoka didn't do the same although Rebellion was real close.

@Glenn Magus Harvey

Madoka may not be a deconstruction but it is grimdark and depressing until the end. You are right Mami is not being a warrior. The whoie thing just seems like a story driven morality play where 'the characters act this way and they get this just because.'

Sayaka had no idea what she was getting into only to realize that it wasn't like in her fantasy she made herself.

edited 18th Nov '14 4:57:33 AM by GAP

"We are just like Irregular Data. And that applies to you too, Ri CO. And as for you, Player... your job is to correct Irregular Data."

What, completely tear apart every cliche of the genre? No, I think Madoka did plenty of that.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Thank you for crystallizing my general impresion of Madoka Magica into succinct form.

So is that a bad thing that the series is story-driven rather than character driven? Because some critics say that those kinds of shows never work, since they have characters act less of their own accord, and more because the story has their fates pre-determined.

I'm not sure about that. Deconstructions are about having the logical consequences or origins of tropes, having tropes play out the way they realistically would. Arguably the biggest reveal of the first series, which drives much of the plot, is that meguca become witches. I don't know anything about common tropes of magical girl monsters that would make it more realistic if they were originally the very things that fight them.

Madoka also plays some of the most common elements of magical girl stuff perfectly straight. Hope beats out cynicism and steals callousness's lunch money, how much more classic magical girl can you get? And the yuri subtext is pretty standard magical girl stuff as well.

Uh, no. The movie exists just to take that hopeful ending, snatch it away, and floss it's asscheeks with it.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Just taking the series itself though, that is the statement it's making. The sequel was unconceived of at that point.