Tales Series

I don't think Reala is a Mary Sue.

Reala is snotty at the beginning and almost emotionless. She was basically proto-Milla at that point (Missionmissionmission. Go away humans, you're getting in over your heads. Missionmissionmission.) It's Philia's intervention that makes her consider travelling with Kyle. She warms up to him a bit too fast, but she's not confident in her powers.

An argument can be made that she's God Mode thanks to her powers. She's god incarnate and can alter reality whenever she wants if she has her Lens, a power that is only matched by the main antagonist. But I don't think the narrative treats her as too amazing a person - she's wrong and uncertain more than once. She flips at her own powerlessness and runs away, which puts everyone in a shitton of trouble and sends her straight into Elraine's hands. She also considers that Elraine's distorted future might actually be good, which Kyle and Nanaly call out for the BS it is. Whoever wrote that "Reala can do wno wrong" needs to actually play the game since she's...well wrong more than once.

She's more boring than a Mary Sue. She's also a killer support character and no one messes with mah SP restoration bots. >:(

And you get his hypocrisy instead! And his relationship with Flynn that's...just...kinda...there. Forgotten after the first arc. And they fight at the end for no reason. Poor Flynn is the most ineffectual person in the game.

If she is God Mode, she'd be doing all those super awesome skills on her own and wipes the floor with it. Heck, she might even kill Barbatos before he committed suicide!

Just because you have the power, doesn't mean that you instantly has become a God-Mode Sue. Heck, just look at Milla. A Goddess with tremendous power, yet she doesn't abuse it to take names or people saying "Wow, Jude and friends are screwed if they don't have Milla."

Now I don't think she's suddenly very interesting, I still like Nanaly more. But there's just a lot of wrong saying about Reala. Like I stated, regardless of her big powers, she went through a lot of shits much like the future heroines of Tales. And she still develops from it, going from a very unsure and uncertain girl into someone who's more confident and ready to sacrifice her existence for the sake of many. And like stated, post-Dream Illusion, it really isn't her stealing the spotlight, because it's pretty much 'Whole party Vs Elraine', the Heaven-Earth War arc is Harold's spotlight, the final battle with Barbatos also serves as a conclusion to Judas' arc. It's only at the final arc that the focus is on Reala because it's the crux of her development.

But overall, Reala does not steal the spotlight that much. In fact, I think the plot share is pretty fair. At least Loni and Nanaly 'stopping being relevant' takes halfway of the game while poor Cheria takes about a few hours of the game, understandably pissing off people.

edited 20th Nov '14 6:10:28 AM by ChrisX

Yeah, Vesperia's theming is so schizophrenic. They tried Lawful vs Vigilante Justice, but that got dropped no later than Alexei lost steam around Cumore, they tried and failed to make Flynn seem effective but he just gets ignored due to the plot moving with Yuri and thus he and the group are what solves the issues, with Flynn providing cleanup at best usually. Yuri's hypocrisy only makes sense if you take a side quest into consideration (the dark enforcer side quest segment that takes place in Mantaic where Yuri sees the darker side of the enforcers methods could theoretically have changed his views, but there's no leg to stand on since it's a side quest). He does add a touch of normalcy and grounding (amusingly enough, given his fighting style) to the main cast since he's just a dude dragged into this enormous thing and embracing the adventures he's been dragged into, but he doesn't really contributed much to story based solutions since Rita lolsciences her way through a lot of stuff.

I say this as someone who thinks Vesperia is still a fairly solid game, but doesn't quite reach the level of some of the more well composed games. As for Reala, I haven't played or watched Destiny 2, so I can't really add to that, but I'm sure Lu can cover everything.

edited 20th Nov '14 6:19:46 AM by Alfric

Honestly, if Flynn's methods had actually succeeded in some parts and we got a grey vs grey conflict where lawfulness and vigilante have their pros and cons, then it'd be much better. Instead, Yuri's ways solve things while Flynn is left looking extremely ineffectual. And then, as you said, you have Rita's lolsciences basically kicking them both to the curve. Step aside, morons, I have plot convenienced science!

Milla is not god. She's just an extremely powerful artificial human who can summon the spirits. She's reborn as a spirit and eventually becomes god, only she's completely ineffectual at wiping the floor with everything because Xillia 2 introduced a bunch of never mentioned plot elements to make Ludger the best thing since sliced bread. Bad writing extraordinaire.

And Reala not using her powers is simply an arbitrary stopgap the plot puts in because there would otherwise be no plot. There's never really any indication on what either she or Elraine can't do, only vague hints. There's no other Tales character that can simply rewrite reality as they wish for the mere price of Lens. Powers which were conveniently never mentioned in the original Destiny, or even implied to exist.

And did you play Destiny 2? She gets a lot more focus than either Loni or Judas before Nanaly joins, gets some more in the distorted future, gets sidelined at the time Harold shows up, and is once again the focus at the end. She gets about the same focus as most Tales heroines, only the rest of the party gets less because Destiny 2 is a rather short game.

edited 20th Nov '14 6:28:48 AM by lu127

It's a pity, really. Loni's my favourite character from D2.

Also in other news there's this cute Santa Naughty or Nice random response generator thing out where you type in anyone's name and I got this strangely fitting result for Cheria that I had to do a skit out of.

I beat the main plot of Tales of Hearts R! Wow, this game was great. The plot wasn't super special or anything, but there was almost no padding and it moved very quickly. The characters were fun and I liked the way they did the sympathetic villain thing. Creed wasn't a good guy by far, but there's clearly something wrong with the way he thinks and perceives the world. The battle system is fun and I liked the Spiria stuff. It made the world of Hearts seem sufficiently different from ours that it wasn't just a generic fantasy setting.

Just one question though. Was the Twilight Forest in the original DS version? Because the Triverse Gate uses a lot of the same design ideas. No one references it, but they're clearly connected in some way. It is kind of funny that Kohaku is scared of a bridge near the beginning of the game and not any of the other bizarre stuff lying all over the place.

The series is kind of overusing the "There are two worlds, one is dying or dead and something from that world is a threat to the healthy world." thing though.

edited 20th Nov '14 8:56:00 AM by Zendervai

The Twilight Forest was added for this version, but you have to have played Innocence R to make any sense of it.

Basically, the Twilight Forest is an area that exists in all three worlds in the Triverse (Innocence, Tempest, Hearts). It looks the same in each world, but there are guardians in each entrance, who guard the passages so people cannot get through. That's why there are rumors of people going missing.

The Triverse Gate is the only way shown so cross between the worlds. For whatever reason, people from the world of Tempest occassionally send explorers to the worlds of Hearts and Innocence, but the only people to have ever returned alive are Kongwai, QQ (from Innocence R) and Gallando. Which is why the story of Innocence is known as a legend in the Tempest world.

Okay, that helps it make sense. Thank you.

And now I'm off to do the future arc of Graces F. Once I get back from work.

I did. It was funny.

edited 20th Nov '14 9:40:13 AM by Zendervai

I actually did Arcadia Gardens last night and ugh it was a bit shit actually. Also Emeraude's still a bitch since it sounds like she did similar shit to the Little Queen that she did to Lambda. Can't exactly blame Little Queen too much.

Also anyone like that one skit I did up there?

Arcadia Garden is nigh impossible without a map. At least it's got the Little Queen fight at the end.

By that you mean the Little Queen gangbang where they drop Purifications first chance they get? well okay I only died once but I got them. Was funny that her idea of killing us was making clones of herself then bumrushing us, oi when we were in the Eleth Labs when she chased us with lasers. The only thing missing was her shouting "Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!"

x4 I hate that feeling, also applies to school.

I'm also ashamed that I had to google Mother Teresa.

Zen and Niitris: Thanks, guys. Had to do it, that random result was perfect

I've confirmed with a friend that she's willing to let me borrow her Xbox 360 sometime. Meaning that I can play Vesperia, provided that I get the game myself.

I won't take her up on it right away, but one of these days I'll do it. Still have other games to finish first. Like Legendia.

As for Hearts...I'll probably just wait for someone to make a commentary-less walkthrough or something I can watch. A Let's Play would be fine, as long as they don't talk over the scenes.

edited 20th Nov '14 12:12:44 PM by SapphireBlue

Well I've been considering to buy a Hearts R. Is it REALLY as bad as people make it out to be?

I finished Destiny 2, dude. But it has been awhile. I think the only 'focus' Reala got before Nanaly joining was that time they're about to be shipwrecked and end up in Stahn's hometown (Lienea, wasn't it?). And after that, that's it. In Phandalia on the first meeting with Woodrow/Garr, the focus was actually on Kyle, when his dreams of heroism got shattered to pieces by Judas, and this was supposed to be yet another way for him to realize what it means to be a hero. Reala only got a little focus and didn't solve things, she's probably just there still on her phase of "Missionmissionmission Youarenoherokyle." Then Barbatos crashes the castle, everyone got sent to the future. And so we begin a bit on Nanaly's intro arc.

Okay once you get back to the present, it IS a bit of Reala, but this was to show how wrecked she is mentally and flipping and getting herself into trouble because of insecurity, and eventually develops to be something more outgoing. That's the time when we get to 'Elraine dream world' in which Nanaly gets her time to shine to show off some hunting skills, and after that, the reveal of Judas=Leon, Dream World, War Arc.

And really, I don't remember Reala being relevant in War Arc or Barbatos final battle. That was all Harold's time, with a bit of Judas. Basically, Reala only starts getting relevant if they are directly dealing with Elraine. That being said, even Kyle gets his time to shine and develop in the final arc. Why do you think he's visiting the old heroes for advice? This was all for his development and realization about what it truly means to be a hero.

Still I agree if they remake Destiny 2 one day in the same vein of ToDR.

edited 20th Nov '14 3:40:59 PM by ChrisX

I love Hearts R so far, but I was never bothered by the lack of an English dub and I can be surprisingly tolerant of goofy English translations if the gameplay itself is solid. I'll admit that Kor gets on my nerves a bit, but the combat is so good that I can overlook his Kor-ness.

I hated the Little Queen from the F arc. She's Lambda without any sympathetic or likable qualities, she's just "DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE HUMANS DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE HUMANS DIE RAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You can see why she is that way, but it doesn't change that she's a very boring clichefest without any of the Tales charm added to it. At least, that's how she is to me. I was so happy to be done with the F arc just so I didn't have to deal with Little Queen anymore.

She does seem kinda...meh really compared to Lambda and Dick.

The heck? Vesperia was amazing. Lu probably is pissed about the lame plot, the battle system taking too long to open up, or the annoyingness of certain dungeons. Or all three. But it's a great game.

1) Giant Space Flea Out Of Nowhere. Nuff said. Plot went to the gutter the moment that monster showed up. Vesperia should have ended on the Second Act. Kinda like Abyss...

2) Yeah, you don't get the good skills until the game is almost over, but it's to make you learn the system. You now have your combo god Yuri and instacast Rita. Want something to trash with them? That's what the Bonus Dungeon is for.

3) The Land of Memories and OH BOY the Telescopic Graveyard. Xillia was better in the sense Magnus Zero had more exits /save points and DIDNT force you to fight mobs, but... only Goldy awaits in the bottom. Land of Memories is a true Boss Rush. (Xillia had it inside the coliseum.)

The graveyard is unique in the sense that the dungeon is INSIDE a battlefield (the boundary opens and you move to another batch of enemies) It's got great treasure and you leave whenever you want, so no Marathon Level.

Er, what did I want to say here... anyway. Vesperia is great. Amazing 3D entry. Don't let people tell you otherwise. (Yuri did the cooking contest and Flynn was his rival. Yuri end the 100 man melee and Flynn is the last enemy. Flynn is The Rival, WE GET IT, game!)

edited 21st Nov '14 9:07:41 AM by FlightMaster

So I watched that one bonus gRaces pre-order hype vid thing last night along with a few Tales of Theater episodes

They're awful, because they have the exact same problem as Xillia 2's bonus dungeon. A million palette swaps instead of new unique bosses (those four golems you fight to get Spiral Draco? They're the exact same enemy as Goliath, only with inflated stats. Who needs new strategies when you have so many palette swaps?) and are padded to hell and back with tedium only to prolong their vacancy. Imitation Gald is the single stupidest thing in Tales. Having to go through this sours the amazing cameo fight that should have been accessible without the tedium.

Hearts R is amazing. It has a great story, great cast, awesome combat and...well, the graphics suck but that's it. It's my favourite Tales. That said, I don't know how the English version is. The Japanese one was awesome.

And the graphics aren't even that bad. Yeah, by PS 3 standards they're not great, but it's a portable game for the VITA. Super detailed graphics aren't really that necessary there.

Sorry if my last post was not coherent enough... geez girl, I was trying to say something GOOD about the Telescopic graveyard. And yeah, I was trying to prove that bonus dungeons are one of Vesperia's flaws. Seems like all late games have a horrible Bonus Dungeon:

• Symphonia 2's Gladsheim: Identical rooms in a 8x8 grid, forces you to fight mons that can wreck the Symphonia veterans on ANY difficulty, only a couple save points, last boss has a 5% chance of dropping Marta's best weapon. (That's FIVE %)
• Vesperia LOM and TG: Flaws already stated. Fake Gald and the programmer who coded them can go die, agree 1000%.
• Graces' Zhonecage: Enemies start at 200% of their normal stats. You pay an increasingly prohibitive price per floor, forcing you to do Dualize acrobatics. Oh, and die and you lose the item you offered. DANG!
• Xillia's Magnus Zero: A million pallete swaps (well, that's a problem of the entire game) and Goldy is a damage sponge even on Easy. Lvl 99 chars still look at a Marathon Boss.
• Xillia 2's Ilusionary Darkness: I heard it locks members out if they don't have Social Link 8+ with Ludger? And you can only do damage to mobs inside while linked. And you have a timer somewhere? Afwul, yeah.

Lots of bad design choices. Is Hearts R's bonus dungeon any good? Since it is your favorite... (But it will still get fandom hate, because LOL VITA.)

By the way. How did you get Rita's Seeker? We have done nearly 100 million damage (we can thank the graveyard for that...) and still no costume. No mage at Halure says anything about it. Is it even missable?

edited 22nd Nov '14 4:40:03 AM by FlightMaster

Yeah, most bonus dungeons tend to be a lot of shit.

BTW you missed out Symphonia 1's Niflheim book