Super Smash Bros.

In general I think characters who notably used projectiles were nerfed by the time the game was released. Early play probably favored that style, so the team applied nerfs across the board for them, maybe as a last minute "we've put way too much time configuring the details of these characters to rework them into something different, just make them overall weaker." Samus, having a combination of middle-weight attacks and some projectile-walling, got the worst of it.

And then there's Villager, who I guess the team decided that no one would take seriously? Maybe?

I think the patches are based on who's getting used most online compared to what they expect. Samus's series isn't exactly that popular in japan these days, so they look at the number of people not playing her and say "well, that's to be expected."

They probably think people play ZSS for the fanservice, and not for all the crazy stuff she can pull off.

edited 1st Aug '15 2:36:13 PM by ABRICK

We've already been through, what, five different "balance" patches by now?

There should be nothing to stop them from improving hitboxes (like they indeed have in cases like Jr's F-Smash, regardless of many other attacks still suffering similar issues for him) and various other properties of moves that actually need the attention if they felt like it.

They're actively supporting tourneys now. They should at the very least be aware of who's at the top and why, with Diddy supposedly being evidence that they are.

edited 1st Aug '15 2:47:27 PM by Demonfly

I'm pretty sure Mega Man is agreed to be a mid/upper-mid tier character and then there's R.O.B. with Gyro and Robo Beam.

And Pac-Man.

edited 1st Aug '15 2:43:20 PM by IceAnt573

I went to a con today and played some silly 8 player Smashes free-for-alls there. I actually managed to win most of the matches I took part on, I only lost one match with Greninja and either 2 or 3 with Lucas.

I also found out that one of the better players there (and the one that caused most of my losses) is going to go to the same tournament as me on the 28th.

So yeah that was pretty cool.

I'm not saying they all got nerfed to the perfect level or anything, I'm just suggesting the thought process behind why some characters may have turned out differently now compared to pre-release. I recall Megaman being rumored to be too strong in pre-release days, too, and he's in an alright-tier.

And yeah, most likely the team is only concerned about balancing the more popular characters, or those on the extreme ends of the lose-win ratio, hence why folks like Diddy and Sheik get at least a small change every update, and that Samus gets... animation changes I guess? Samus is lost in the meta for a lot of reasons, is what I'm getting at.

So why did Rosalina not get any changes in the latest patch? Is it because not many people use her for various reasons?

She probably didn't need any changes.

I beg to differ.

They didn't seem to think her all the way through- They made her a Puppet Fighter who can still handle herself alone, with the result being that Luma makes her stupid overpowered.

edited 1st Aug '15 6:39:15 PM by Pulse

Have you guys ran into people who have no idea who Ryu is? Or people who simply call Ridley "The Dragon"? I know I've met one person who doesn't know who Ryu is, and everyone I play Sm4sh with IRL calls Ridley "The Dragon". They also usually call Yellow Devil "Blob Monster".

My one friend was being an ass as Link this one match where I was Mega Man, my other friend was Bowser and he seemed to deliberately target me. I was getting annoyed at him that when it came down to him and the Bowser player, I was rooting for the Bowser player.

For some reason, this kid (I'm referring to my friend as we're all about to become High School seniors) seems to think that he needs to hit the special button multiple times when using Spin Attack or Triforce Slash when he actually doesn't need to.

Have you guys also run into any Link/Toon Link player that uses Spin Attack everytime they attack an opponent in the air? That's kinda my friend's Link/Toon Link in a nutshell. That and bombs.

So Moon has a real life rival? Sounds like fun times

I thought that you were talking about my friend but then I remembered Moon's story. Besides, my friend (okay, both of them and me) would not stand a chance against Moon. That particular friend is simply not that smart. Given the fact that he stills spams Spin Attack no matter how many times the other friend and I dodge it. He also can not pronounce some words (Fresh, Complicated and Custer are some of the ones I remember him failing. There were others).

Somehow I was able to complete the "Classic 9.0 in 12 minutes or less as Marth" challenge the first time I used Marth for 9.0.

Bit of bad timing on my part then!

I don't play with anyone outside of online, so no stories here. I'm the only person I know IRL that plays Smash or Nintendo games period! It's kinda weird.

I'm lucky to live with four roommates that all like to Smash to at least some extent, and two of 'em regularly joined me to the local weeklies when we had the time. Then there's my brother, and other extended list of friends... Very fortunate. Playing offline is a hell of a lot more fun than online, especially when it's all For Glory there. Very difficult for me to have a good time with essentially anonymous strangers.

I do wish Rosalina would get nerfed a little, but honestly, I think she's at least fun to play against, due to most of the thought that has to go into making her so powerful. Compare that to Diddy or Villager, who have very mind-numbingly simple strategies to succeed due to their weird attributes. All in all, I think Rosalina herself just needs to be weaker when she's without Luma, to make up for the fact that she's so strong when it's around, and how it comes back fairly quickly, especially if you know how to stall.

So someone posted a counter to that "Samus is bad" video. I've never seen anyone set up her bombs like this.

Samus being my first secondary in this game I know she can be really flashy when she gets rolling. That was a really good display

Pretty impressive playing! But, you know, it's not really a valid argument against the complaints about Samus' shortcomings? I mean, a lot of people tend to take it very personally when you insult their favored character for some reason, so it's an argument in that sense, but ultimately the fact that cool things can be done with her only means that she would be even cooler without all those entirely unnecessary flaws, so you could see more awesome displays like that at higher levels rather than just Diddies hoo-hah-ing all day long. (I exaggerate, but you know what I mean.) It's an argument against "Samus sucks lawl" but not an argument against "Samus deserves better."

edited 2nd Aug '15 11:40:04 AM by Fawriel

That video makes me want to play Samus more. I used to use her a lot around launch, but gradually shifted back towards ROB over time.

Just because Samus can do some cool stuff doesn't magically fix her being unable to hit anything at point-blank range or her Super Missiles being unable to launch someone offscreen at +200%

her Super Missiles being unable to launch Mewtwo offscreen at +200%

I fixed it for you.

That doesn't say much, considering Mewtwo launches pretty easily even among medium characters.

Well, the uploader still said that she needs buffs, so it seems he was mostly posting the video to show that Samus can be capable of doing some amazing things at the moment despite her issues, and was trying to stave off the reaction people had (i.e. refusing to try her at all) because of the other video. Like Faw said, it's a counter to the "Samus sucks lawl" reaction the other video got, but not a counter to the more legitimate issues and criticisms the character has.

And yeah, the point of Mewtwo being in the scapegoat was to show that she couldn't launch one of the lighter characters with her missles, which is telling.

On a different note: Sourcegaming discusses clones. Kind of a long read (and reiterates some things most of us already know about), but I thought it was interesting enough to share.

edited 2nd Aug '15 1:10:18 PM by Customer

That's the idea; second-most deliberately flimsy character in the game is still able to overcome what's supposed to be a launching move.

Though the Missile thing ranks among the least of her problems; if there's anything PSS doesn't need help with, it's being an obnoxious pigeonholed zoner.

The Alph thing sounds new, at least.

edited 2nd Aug '15 1:23:39 PM by Demonfly