Dragon Ball Multiverse

Wasn't he holding his own against Frieza quite well?

Oh hey neat pagetopper.

edited 1st Apr '15 6:02:44 PM by BaronPraxis

Holding his own, but also running out of time. He only barely got out of there, and only because one of the Ginyu pods was still functional and close enough to Freeza's ship for him to escape there after he realized Freeza's ship was busted.

The biggest collective bad idea was right after Trunks' warning. Bulma had the idea to find Dr. Gero's lab and destroy it before the androids were built, and everybody vetoed her. Everybody. Just because, meh, why save the world if you can't get a good fight out of it?

edited 2nd Apr '15 8:13:57 AM by hazzaboner

xmany times "The thing is, Goku does that when he knows he is stronger."

Actually Goku's first instance of doing so in DBZ (sparing Vegeta) was after an ample demonstration that he wasn't stronger than the guy he was sparing in an all-out fight; he asked for Vegeta to be spared specifically because he wanted to beat him one-on-one someday.

Freeza was as discussed above, and with Revival of F we now have the added hilarious possibility of Freeza taking his offer to leave Namek alive and then hitting the gym for a few month and coming back at post-series levels of power. (Though granted Goku couldn't have known about that silliness.)

Then again with Cell when he gave him a Senzu, something that everyone up to and including Cell called him out on. It's not like he could have done anything if Cell had decided not to toy around and had fought Gohan seriously from the start. (Though everyone is also guilty of respecting Cell's arbitrary tournament rules and not just mobbing him.)

Then with Buu it's not like he had any guarantee Gotenks could beat him, and Goku himself didn't have the time left to fight him again if that failed - even if he could have in theory defeated Buu, it's not like he was massively superior.

Really, Vegeta makes a lot of mistakes by letting people power up, but at least those power ups were unknown variable since he just doesn't expect by how much they'll power up. Goku has all the cards laid out in front of him and still goes out of his way to fuck up.

edited 2nd Apr '15 11:10:29 AM by Siriel

I wonder how much, if anything, would be different in the comic if it could've accounted for BOG and ROF.

Given the slow rate of the story they could have come up with some way to incorporate those elements. I don't think it would change much beyond having Super Saiyan God and Frieza's new form included.

It'd completely change the power level of Goku and Vegeta, Freeza should be absolutely unbeatable in a universe where he took more than 4 months to train and learned his forms' weakness first, the current top tier would be completely inferior to a new top tier introduced, and the 12 universes thing could also make it awkward.

Freeza is the Butt-Monkey in this comic. In ROF, he's a challenge even for post Buu saga Goku. So that'd change things completely. I'm actually kind of disappointed in the comic in that regard. Freeza is one of my favorite villains and they made him a Butt-Monkey. I realize this was made long before ROF, but still it's not exactly inconceivable that Freeza would train.

Unknown how much god form would affect things, since we don't know how reliably Goku can call upon it.

Yes we do. He absorbed the power and barely powered down, even in BoG. In RF, His Super Saiyan state now has the power of Super Saiyan God.

I'm happy with Freeza being a Butt-Monkey in DBM. It's incredibly fitting, I feel he was a very bad thing for the franchise and shouldn't be the exception among villains being surpassed. Even if he did train, he shouldn't be able to outpace the heroes. And in RF, he is not treated as a threat by Goku/Vegeta. They don't take him seriously, don't bother to team up, and when each fight him one-on-one they kick his ass. The only time he is threatening is when Freeza blows up the planet, which is immediately reversed.

edited 2nd Apr '15 5:55:35 PM by Saiga

Based on Xenoverse it seems like all the alternate timelines in Dragon Ball, especially the ones caused by time travel and what if scenarios, are actually still within the same "universe".

So it's the difference between an Alternate Timeline and Another Dimension? Makes sense.

That's true. We won't really know unless that 12 universes thing is properly explored.

That's too much...!

edited 3rd Apr '15 11:02:00 AM by Alucard

So is Buu just ignoring Goku until he deals with Supreme Kai?

Looks like it.

I'd say that it makes more sense since he can't deal with Goku if the Kai is attacking him outside, but then again, we already know the Kai can't stop him (though he went in knowing that, and only planned to buy Goku a little time).

That being said, if Goku is smart, he'll start looking for the pod where Vegeta is and free him to weaken Buu again.....

Except we already know Buu will win this anyway, so it doesn't really matter what Goku does.

What if Buu absorbed Kibito Kai and Elder Kai and King Yenma.

I am fascinated by the idea of Buu functionally becoming God.

Would it really matter much? By this point Buu is far stronger than any god except for Beerus and Whis who probably won't appear anyway.

It's not about "power".

Kibito Kai has the instantaneous movement thing. And creates planets.

Yenma controls life and death.

This version of Buu absorbs/will absorb musicians. Raw strength isn't the only thing that interests him.

edited 3rd Apr '15 3:06:33 PM by unnoun

Majin Buu already absorbed the highest Kai in existance. Absorbing Kibito Kai or Yenma wouldn't be too far beyond him.

And he is called Zen Buu, so perhaps he has become God of his universe.

Wait how did Yemma deal with all the villains he had to judge and send to hell? Does he have absolute mastery over his domain such that Frieza, Cell and even Buu have no power over him if they seek him out there? (I know that villains don't keep their bodies in the manga but what if they manage to teleport to the afterlife like kid buu did? And do they lose their bodies before being judged or after?) Does he have to judge himself if he dies? Does he have to go to the back of the line if so? Who judges in his stead? How backed up can the Celestial Bureaucracy get before someone else has to step in?

So many questions.

I like to imagine that a living person that teleported to him could wreck his shit.

I mean, he's supposedly not as strong as King Kai.

Who had to keep doing his job after dying.

...I think it'd be funny if he ended up judging himself as not being deserving to go to heaven because of how rude he often is.

edited 3rd Apr '15 7:26:48 PM by unnoun

You lose your body when you die. Being strong doesn't mean Freeza et al can ignore the rules of death (fanfic cliches aside). So nobody needs to 'take' the bodies of Freeza et al or overpower them in any way.

Their soul is sent to the check-in station, and because they're unworthy they're not given a body. So they're harmless.

If Boo or whoever went there while alive they'd probably slaughter everyone with ease.

Though I do wonder how it works in the anime, where you seem them still having their bodies and all.

Hell, in the anime, where we see him judge Dabura, the latter still has his body, which just isn't supposed to happen.

But for the manga, all he has to do is beat up souls with no arms, legs or abilities to fight back with.

Dabura doesn't keep his body. Notice he had a ghost tail. I think he, along with Chi Chi and Videl were those white cloud things, but given faces so we could tell who they were.

Well, the anime shows plenty of villains keep their bodies. The ghost tail thing was just weird.