Warhammer 40,000

Finally, finished The Warmaster and Meryn continues to mock me. Good book though.

Misuse of "lead" aside, is the last edit to Irony on Characters.Warhammer 40000 Astartes Chapters necessary?

Does anything one here thing it was a plan of the dark gods to chose what planet each primach would land?

I mean look Angron and Magnus, have they land in ANY other planet, their whole fate would be diferent, Magnus was lucky(VERY lucky) to land in one of the few planets were psykers werent persecuted while or good Angry ron land in one of the must hatable planets in the galaxy(which it kinda said a lot actually).

Well Lorgar landed on a planet that worshipped the Chaos Gods as a pantheon, and started a religious war to move it to Monotheism for the Emperor.

If you see the big four primach(Magnus, Mortarion, Angron and Fulgrim) they really see tailor fit to fall.

And Aurelian reveals chaos was already making their move on Magnus, he was destiny to fall not matter what....which is depresing as hell.

Considering this is the same situation that led a dude called Iron Hands to get iron hands and lead the Iron Hands, I think cosmic convenience just works like that in the 40k universe.

Just a thing here, The iron hand didnt have that name before but they go by the nickname Storm wardens and they were nicers before Ferrus go his metal hand of them.

Yeah, the primarch mess up their legion big time.

No, the Astartes messed their legion up big time. Manus wanted to stop them from making themselves into cyborgs.

Yeah, Ferrus Manus has a whole monologue on how he wanted the Iron Hands to stop replacing their flesh with machinery.

Precisely. The Hands are relying so much on their enhancements that they're forgetting what it means to actually be an Astartes.

Edit: Actually, I can express this a lot better without the sarcasm.

If hatred of what is natural and human is the first and greatest corruption, Ferrus, why are you still recruiting? Your troops are already enhanced with cybernetics. All Space Marines are. It's how they wear their armour. Your men have a double-digit list of additional organs stuffed into their ribcages. They're not born with those, Ferrus. You implant them to make them Space Marines.

If augmentation is bad, why are you still leading an army of augmented people?

"Why are they doubting the natural strength of their bodies"? Perhaps because their strength isn't natural. It's the product of a ruthless regime of augmentation. The only reason you have sons is that process. The conclusion that augmentation makes you stronger is actually pretty natural for people to reach when augmentation has given them multiple-century lifespans, an extra two feet in height, the ability to wear the most potent armour in the Imperium, and strength and durability almost on par with a full-grown ogryn!

(And I'm only giving Ferrus a pass because he, at least, was born a Primarch!)

edited 21st Dec '17 1:17:40 AM by CountDorku

Ferrus could be making a difference between Bio-Augmentation and cyborg stuff.

It does seem rather redundant.

Also is the Filk Song example added to the T'au page yesterday appropriate to have on the page and, if it is, is it still a Zero Context Example as Weblinks Are Not Examples.

edited 21st Dec '17 3:46:59 AM by SebastianGray

Presumably Ferrus Manus believed enhancing the human body was one thing, but outright replacing parts of it was something else entirely.

I think that too. The Iron Hands are sacrificing perfectly serviceable body parts to try and be "better" when augmentations are normally only used in response to an injury.

@Medinoc: At a bare minimum, the Black Carapace is generally described as inorganic (as the interface between their nervous system and the control systems of power armour it'd pretty much have to be). He doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

@M84, theLibrarian: Which you have to admit is a pretty friggin' arbitrary line to draw with Space Marines, especially given that midway through the Marine augmentation process they literally have their ears removed and replaced with new super-ears.

"I mean, sure, they've had their entire bodies crammed full of freakish super-organs created by mad science, and we've basically amputated their human existence above the age of ten and grafted on centuries as a living weapon, but we can't have them cutting off parts to replace with better ones! ...Except the ears, I guess, which don't count!" - Ferrus Manus, apparently

Er.... the ear augmentation is a cochlear implant. Not replacing the entire ear

Then someone really needs to tell that to Lexicanum, which describes the Lyman's Ear as "completely replac[ing] the original ear".

My point about Space Marines having so many augmentations already that they can't even fit through standard-size doors and Ferrus "Born a Literal Demigod Whose Flesh Is Virtually Bulletproof" Manus drawing a completely arbitrary line at that point stands, however.

edited 21st Dec '17 9:49:13 AM by CountDorku

The is two reason for this:

First is the diferent between bio upgrades and machinery, the first still count as human and is still you prospering with their own strenght, while Machinery handle your strength to something else, you can put that as kinda of cybernetic eat your soul.

the second is ferrus relies in their own strength and his metal hands are becoming a crunch for him, realign on them more and more, his hands are powerfull....but they not HIS hands, is not his power and for him that is unthinkable.

Actually this remind me of dorn heresy, were Ferrus get pretty much posses by his metal hand that extend over his body...kinda like Fulgrim and his sword actually...

Yeah, I don't see why I'm expected to think that inhuman stuff made out of meat is more human than human stuff made out of metal, especially since not all of the inhuman stuff is actually made out of meat (once again, the black carapace).

As for Ferrus relying on his own strength, you mean the strength he has because his entire body is the product of a mad science experiment? It's easy to be confident in your natural strength when you're a demigod of war who is largely impervious to bullets and has been wrestling monsters to death from a young age.

My guess would be that Ferrus's perspective is so far removed from ours that the baseline Space Marine reads as "normal," and deviations from that are strange to him. It's kind of preposterous, but in a way that I find believable.

edited 21st Dec '17 2:18:14 PM by Durazno

That could work. Still a hypocrite, and I would think that at some point he would actually have asked why his sons are 2-3 feet taller than Imperial Army troopers, but "he's a hypocrite but for understandable reasons" is a lot better as arguments go than "he's not a hypocrite because the things he doesn't have a problem with have been arbitrarily filed as Good even when there's not much difference between them and the things filed as Bad".

I wonder how he gets along with the Mechanicus, on a personal level.

Honestly I wish the Iron Hands got some actual focus, some unique units or a frigging character would be nice. On the other hand, they're Space Marines, they can wait wayyyyyy down the line of folks needing attention.

The black carapace barely count since is only function is use the power armour, also I dont think thinks like third heart or two lungs are inhuman, is waaaay beyond that that.

And yes, Ferrus was create with that power but it IS power, he didnt bargain with anyone else, neither didnt he try to replac until he is not longer ferrus, is him after all and he is worrying all the boons his metal hands give to him at make him losing the sight that...well, is not his hands but the metal in there that does the trick.

If anything compared that to Fulgrim, he was so obsess with perfection that alot fablous bill to be a sick fuck to is legion, twisting them into abomination even beyond spaces marines, Ferrus for all his dickery know that is him and him alone.

So you can see that as "Dont lose yourself in your change" something Fulgrim learn to late.