No 40K thread yet? I'm surprised. Nay, shocked, shocked I say to discover there's gambling going on in this establishment...
I'm eagerly anticipating the imminent 5th Edition release, personally, but I was interested to know if anyone here plays and has a differing opinion on it. There are certainly plenty of people out there who seem to think that 40K 4th edition "only just" came out and that a new edition isn't needed. Anyone?
Warhammer Fantasy (including Age of Sigmar and WFRP) has its own thread here
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Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:37:34 PM
Okay, one, y'all don't get it:
When Games Workshop said "this isn't 40k's End Times" they meant "we're not blowing up the original universe and rebooting it with something new"
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
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Please, it's perfectly logical.
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Honestly, there are so many things that we don't know about those damage charts. Certain weapons might not be effective against certain armoured vehicles and so on.
edited 25th Apr '17 12:54:08 PM by TerminusEst
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Tactical Marine: M6" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv3+
Dreadnought: M6" WS3+ BS3+ S6 T7 W8 A4 Ld8 Sv3+
Guillman: M8" WS2+ BS2+ S6 T6 W9 A6 Ld10 Sv2+
Terminator: M5" WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W2 A2 Ld8 Sv2+
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
I can't fault them for moving to set To Hit values; Kings of War does that, and I like Kings of War a lot. (And BS already did that, so, y'know. There's that.)
Base tac marines being Ld 7 implies they're lowering it overall, which has interesting implications.
Terminators being tougher (2 Wounds) but slower (5 instead of 6) makes sense.
You are dazzled by my array of very legal documents.
If you're worried, imagine what Tau players must be feeling at that news.
That all you got?
The Tau have Kroot, though. What Tau player doesn't have at least one unit of Kroot in case people get close?
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Most of them, from the games I have watched or played.
That all you got?
That seems like a rather large oversight. What if Assault Marines come in?
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Most of 6th and 7th was 'blow your opponent off the board', and it showed. The changes to deepstriking and terrain meant you could play a refused flank, and the extra mobility from running, turbo boosting and all the other reliable ways to boost speed and mobility meant you could still capture and hold objectives effectively in the last couple of turns. Compared the the static deployments and bending over backwards for just an extra d6" movement in 3rd, and it was quite different.
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Also this-overwatch, and ways to boost it, plus making sweeping advances more difficult took most of the wind out of the assault lists that were not hordes.
edited 25th Apr '17 3:11:58 PM by ViperMagnum357
Official Tesladyne Employee TM
What are Kroot going to do if they do? Kroot are T3 and have a 6+ armour save. The return attacks from the Assault Marines are going to do a hell of a lot of damage. Compare this to having another unit or two of Fire Warriors, who a) are going to be able to open up on the Assault Marines either before they assault (in most lists) or after they one-turn the unit they're fighting (if they have a "charge on deep strike" rule a la some Blood Angels or Chaos formations), and b) then probably get to provide overwatch fire support if the surviving Assault Marines charge, thanks to the Tau group overwatch rule - and at no point in this do the Assault Marines get to respond with more than a couple of pre-charge pistol shots.
I've been thinking of the IG having some assault CQC unit for a while.
Bring back beastmen, put pointy bits of steel in their hand, send a blob of them running in one direction. Come up with some good bullshit fluff reason they should actually be able to make it across the battlefield through a hail of Armaggedon that at least somewhat makes sense as something they can't share with everyguard else, and then make that mechanically sound.
Like, would their be some kinda rule that balances well that would make a blob of screaming goat-men just resistant enough for them to survive running willy-nilly through a hail of fire?
Or would them just drawing fire and dying like animals be the entire point?
I dunno...
The filidh that cam frae Skye
So when do you predict the new edition will be out? My bet is May/June.
Halper's Law: as the length of an online discussion of minority groups increases, the probability of "SJW" or variations being used = 1.
They have CQC assault units. They're called Ogryn.
Dat's true.
Do they see a lot of use?
I see the really beefy ones with the shields on occasion. Usually as a buffer against fast-moving fighty troops.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Hi
x4 I'm thinking mid- to late June.
Some more minor info on the new rules
-Flyer rules are on the unit having them,so different flying rules are entirely possible. (I like it !)
-Legion and chapter traits are still there.
-Guard will have platoon (and by extension command and comms).
-Cover is like AOS
-No D weapon
-No shooting in/out melee
-Digital and phyisical book (A LOT are printed so no shortage)
-WW exclusive commands tanks are getting rules.
-Chaos and Imperium are similar to grand alliance book but xenos are more granular.
Double post for the 8th Edition weapon rules
Flamer: Range - 8", Type - Assault D6, S4, AP0, Damage - 1, Abilities - Hits automatically
Bolter: Range - 24", Type - Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, Damage -1, Abilities - none
Lascannon: Range - 48", Type - Heavy 1, S9, AP-3, Damage - D6, Abilities - none
Damage is a big change. This stats effectively lets a single hit deliver multiple wounds to one model. So, as we can see, the bolter does a single would per hit, and so is optimised for shooting models that have a single wound themselves, whereas the lascannon, one of the most powerful man-portable weapons in the game, kicks out D6 damage, allowing it to blast chunks off large vehicles and monsters and kill light vehicles and characters in a single hit. Against something like Guardsmen or Orks though, this formidable damage output will be wasted.
The AP system is changing too. Rather than a binary yes/no on saves, the new Warhammer 40,000 uses modifiers – the lascannon will punch easily through power armour, while the bolter and flamer are, again, best deployed against less durable, more numerous targets.
Lastly, you can see that the flamer no longer uses a template. However, when in range, it causes D6 hits that do not have to roll to hit, and this applies even against units of a single model – this can be devastating, especially when used in large numbers , trust us when we say we may be entering the age of the flamer as the go-to special weapon of infantry squads the galaxy over – let the galaxy burn!
The rules team behind the new game have taken the opportunity to rebalance a lot of the weapons in the game, and with the new armour modifier system and removal of the cap of 10 on Strength values, we’ve made sure that every weapon has its use on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium. D weapons, for example, are gone, and instead there is a scalable Strength and damage that matches the effectiveness you’d expect from every weapon.
edited 26th Apr '17 8:51:24 AM by SebastianGray
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Well, good thing I doubled up on flamers. And the changes to Lascannons has made me less regretful about not going for Grav Cannons.
Taking a break from 8th Edition, for today's 2nd Edition Thursday I will share some random Ork fluff extracts.
A typical Ork stands about the same height as a man, but would be taller if he stood up straight. They have robust and muscular frames, with strong, long arms that end in clumsy fingers capable of a vice-like grip. The skulls are thick with heavy protruding brow-ridges shading their savage red eyes. The jaw is enlongated, and lined with an impressive array of long canine fangs. Orks’ heads are naturally hairless, and they have to use special creatures called squigs for hair or beards. The hide is tough and green, and bears the scars of many a fight.
The Ork mind is curiously specialized: it is devoted wholly to the pursuit of power and war. Orks are brave and tough, and their bodies have a natural resilience which allows them to survive traumatic injuries and the most primitive surgery. They feel very little pain and can keep fighting even if they lose a limb or sustain a major body wound. Their blood, which is green, carries a symbiotic algae through their veins, digesting and reconstituting damaged body tissue and even rebuilding major organs. This unusual physique is common to both Orks and their smaller cousins the Gretchin. In the case of Orks the ability to survive damage is more highly developed than amongst Gretchin. A Gretchin’s instincts will tend to carry him away from danger – usually as fast as his legs will carry him!
Orks in Space
Millennia ago, a probe was sent out from Earth, its mission to voyage to the end of the galaxy. The scientists who built it hoped that it would someday return to its place of origin after circumnavigating the galaxy. The probe still sends back faint signals after 14,000 years adrift, and it hasn’t begun its return voyage (and it’s uncertain if it ever will). To the utter despair of the Imperial Techpriests who still monitor the probe, amongst the incessant battery of incoming signals many are identified as Orkish. The depressing conclusion for mankind can only be that wherever they travel in space, there is a good chance that the Orks will have got there first or will be arriving soon!
Orkish expansion into space was only made possible by their understanding of force field and teleporter technology. Obviously such an momentous achievement was not the result of pure chance and appears to be due to Mekboyz’ innate understanding of these devices. The probability that this knowledge was implanted into the Orks DNA by the lost race of Brainboyz is enhanced by the fact that Ork achievements in these areas is far more advanced than anything achieved by the Imperium or even the Eldar.
The Orks wait for a sighting of one of the great drifting space hulks or other bits of space debris that streak across the night sky. Once the object gets close enough a force field is used to trap a bubble of air around the object and then a teleporter is used to project the Orks and their equipment onto the drifting object and hitch a lift, so to speak. The Orks have no idea where they are going, but this doesn’t bother them overmuch as they are drawn on by their reckless sense of adventure and the prospect of new worlds to loot and conquer.
The Ork Gods
Orks and the Ork Way are strong and powerful forces in the galaxy. Orks are a highly successful race; they seem able to survive, expand and prosper almost effortlessly in comparison to struggling humanity. The Ork character, which is strong and virtually invulnerable, has its reflection in the Warp in the form of the mighty, belligerent and boisterous Ork gods known as Mork and Gork. Gork and Mork are never defeated, they simply shrug off the blows of the other gods and laugh at them. Gork grins, bears his teeth, and lands a mighty blow on the head of his adversary with his gigantic club. Or Mork, master of low cunning, waits until his foe isn’t looking and then clobbers him with a low blow.
An idea of the appearance of the Ork gods can be gained simply by looking at an Ork Gargant, which are constructed in the image of the Ork gods. The Mekboyz who build them try to create something that represents the essence of Orkishness in mechanical form. A gargant is consequently both the ultimate war machine and a religious idol. These great machines behave very much like Ork gods – they lumber about, leaving a trail of devastation in their wake. They go exactly where they please, striding from planet to planet, and they never shun a fight.
Mekaniaks
Mekaniaks are a type of Oddboy. They are natural mechanics and innovators and are responsible for inventing and building most of the bizarre machinery that the Orks use. Mekaniaks are also known as Mekboyz, Meks and Greasy Bodgers (though not to their face, if you know what’s good for you). Mekboyz are obsessed with squeezing more power out of their engines and building bigger and more devastating weaponry. They usually take to the battlefield armed with one of their own invention. Often this will be a heavy and improbably large kombi-weapon which is basically several different weapons welded together into one huge super-gun! A Mekboy’s experimental weapon may well blow up in his face, but it’s worth it for the one in a hundred occasion when his invention performs spectacularly well, winning the entire battle and proving that he is indeed the best Mekboy of all.
Boarboyz
For as long as any Ork can remember the warboar has been a favoured mount of the warrior Ork. It is a fierce and stubborn beast, with sharp tusks, a thick skull, and the odour of a dung-heap. Although some Orks, notably the Evil Sunz, shun warboars in favour of bikes, buggies and other mechanical contraptions, many Orks prefer the good old warboar with its familiar smell and unpredictable violent temper. The Snakebites have a long tradition of boar riding and make by far the best Boarboyz, and their breeding stocks are famous for their immense size and vicious behaviour.
Stormboyz
Orks grow up faster than humans but young Orks sometimes take a year or so to find their place in Ork society. As their techno-genes gradually work their influence on the Ork’s developing brain, the young Ork struggles to come to terms with his own Orkiness. Orks usually leave the household where they were raised and go to live with other young Orks in a Stormboyz camp.
Every Ork settlement has its own Stormboyz camp which consists of regimented barracks and a big square drill area where the young Stormboyz can parade and practice their weapon drill. It is a very curious phenomenon that while human youngsters are often anarchic and wild, Stormboyz are exactly opposite: they are rebelliously smart and well-disciplined! The adult Orks find the constant parading and boot-polishing of the Stormboyz distinctly odd and quite funny, but the Stormboyz take it all very seriously indeed.
edited 27th Apr '17 12:24:56 AM by SebastianGray
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Sorry for the Double Post
To celebrate his 40th Birthday Games Workshop is releasing some special Grombrindal miniatures one of which is Space Marine Grombrindal
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Also the some of the movement rules for 8th have been revealed.
Movement in the new edition will be very familiar to players of the game today, but the rules team have taken the opportunity to improve a few elements.
In the new edition, every model has its own Movement characteristic. This means that, rather than every model moving 6″ unless specified otherwise – things like Terminators will advance slowly and inexorably, while Harlequins leap and bound, and bikes and speeders zip across the battlefield.
Some units will have a minimum move too – this mostly applies to flyers, who can’t stop. Again, this is much like the rules today, but every flyer will have their own minimum and maximum move value, to represent the fact that swift fighters will naturally be quicker than a lumbering bomber.
Running has been rolled into the Movement phase now, too. You can “Advance” when you move by rolling a dice and adding the result to your Movement to go a bit faster at the expense of shooting.
This applies to all models – infantry, vehicles, bikes – everyone. By including this roll as part of your move, the game speeds up, as you no longer have to move modes in both the Movement and Shooting phases.
Other than that, the movement rules are pretty much what you’d expect today – no moving though enemy models, unless you can fly over them, and no walking through solid walls – logical stuff.
edited 27th Apr '17 7:53:26 AM by SebastianGray
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
That all you got?
"Chapter Master, why is Brother Grombrindal so short?"
"An unfortunate mutation at birth, brother. Fortunately his sheer force of will and strength of body allowed him to survive the augmentation process regardless."
That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Rumoured release date for 8th is 3rd June
Double post.
Release confirmed for 10th June. I am guessing was for pre-orders. Also some info on the rules:
June 10th launch, they’re going to drip feed us rumors for the rest of May. Expect to see full Space Marine datasheets sometime around the end of next week, with a couple of fluff pieces talking about how the galaxy got ripped in half and how all the marines got taller.
For those of you who are saving your pennies, here’s what the launch schedule looked like so far.
About 1-2 weeks beforehand all 7th edition exclusive products are being pulled from stores for good. Codex’s, Rulebooks, Dark Vengeance, not the new campaign books such as Gathering Storm sense those are still fluff pieces, but expect those to become much harder to find.
Than on day 1: 5 new, free soft cover/PDFs launch with all the core 8th edition rules.
They are: The Rules: Containing your prophesized 12 pages of core rules, plus outlines for open play and the 14 universal FoC, ranging from 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice 1 command point allies to massive 20+ slot charts that grants a fist full of command. The new force org charts are pitched as a great way customize your army, one of them is a big guns esqu 1 troop/HQ 5+ Heavy support, but really they’re just designed to scale command points to game size.
A few of the wilder ones, such as the aforementioned big guns list, have restrictions and special rules that might sway player one way or the other in terms of army composition, but the more well-rounded ones grant the most command points (which are such a big deal. I cannot stress this enough, proper use of command points can make or break strategies), and the real meat and potato special rules granting armies are going to be built from the FoC structures found in your army codex, once they bring those back.
The free PDF version of the following books will be sectioned up amongst faction lines, but the paper ones are going to be the mashups listed below.
Armies of the Imperium: Exactly what it says on the cover, a splash of lore and datasheets for every imperial unit in the game.
Armies of chaos: The spiky version of the above.
Armies of Xenos: Split up among proper faction lines (Eldar, Tau, Necron, Nids), and containing datasheets and rules for the rest.
A galaxy in flames: Art and fluff book. Brings everyone up to speed on the setting, pushing the story forward by a few weeks and setting up the opening of a AoS style narrative campaign.
Also some spoilers for the new fluff:
edited 28th Apr '17 9:17:27 AM by SebastianGray
Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
Shooting is literally the best it's ever been in 7th edition. If they buff melee combat it's just gonna be offsetting the current balance problem of ranged being so much better.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.