Code Geass

That's called having emotions.

Wow, I was completely wrong. VV was just an Arc Villain, if a very lore-critical one. Just based on how foreboding his introduction was, I was sure he'd be the Final Boss and Charles a fakeout.

Just so you know whatever the initial plans were for season 2 they were drastically changed before the start of the season. As a result things that were planned were scrapped like Suzakus connection to Geass. That was supposed to be the origin of his superhuman abilities.

The general setup of the last half of the show is more in line with what they sought though like Schneizel being Lelouch final opponent.

Gundam 00 was in a similar situation in its second season where things were changed as well, since the two shows were on in between the others seasons.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 14th 2024 at 8:55:24 AM

Huh, really? It all seems to flow really well to me, I never would've guessed. Like, that picture of CC covered in blood in a church has been around since the first end credits sequence, and only now have I learned the full context of it.

Oh yeah, I remember reading about that a long time ago. IIRC the changes were somehow caused by the show’s timeslot being moved earlier?

As I understand it the main changes were the beginning of R2. All the stuff with Lelouch being given amnesia and being put back in Ashford Academy as bait was to introduce new viewers to the show? I don’t really understand how all that is supposed to work to be honest.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Jan 14th 2024 at 12:01:40 PM

Ah, so there weren't any alterations to The Deep Lore and such, that makes sense. That amnesia subplot was awkward.

Also, THAT battle sequence, GAWD DAYUMN.

No there was definitely lore that was excluded. Suzakus connection to Geass was never brought up again after the first season hinted at it with the visions of Jupiter he saw thanks to C.C.

At the most there’s a bit more elaboration with a spin-off manga about Suzakus ancestor having his own Geass.

It’s just that they got the general themes they were going for and reworked them to fit into the second season with what they did remove.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 14th 2024 at 12:07:30 PM

Mmmkay, so, on a weekend trapped in my house by a cold snap where I live, I had nothing to do but finish Code Geass... so I finished Code Geass.

On the whole? It is as good as they say! I love an intricate Jigsaw Puzzle Plot, and whether some things were rewritten or not, I greatly enjoyed watching it all come together. There were a ton of moments where I was all, "Aha! So that's what that random detail from two dozen episodes ago means!"

If it had a serious issue I think it actually had too many ideas and not enough time to express them. Like, that one sadistic knight had his own Amazon Brigade with unique designs who just show up to die. Xingke is repeatedly implied to be Secretly Dying... and he survives the series. His two friends, again, unique designs, practically zero plot significance. Guilford survives the bomb and then... does nothing.

It honestly could've used a third season, I think. Still, an applaudable 8.5 to 9 out of ten, I'd say!

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jan 14th 2024 at 4:26:20 AM

Just so you know, the movies are an Alternate Timeline so if you watch the sequel movie you’ll see characters who died in the show.

Oh yeah, there’s a bunch of stuff going on at any one time. Code Geass is one of the fastest paced anime I’ve seen and might be the most Trope Overdosed.

Humongous Mecha? We got it. Absurdly Powerful Student Council? Yep. Xanatos Speed Chess? So, so, much. Fanservice? Even more of that than the Gambit Pileup’s.

Interestingly enough, when Code Geass first ended I remember a lot of online criticism on forums I looked at. A lot of stuff about how unrealistic it was that Zero Requiem actually worked. And some complaints about how people like Cornelia got off scot free. These days it seems to be regarded as one of the best anime endings ever.

I never actually got around to watching the movies. I should probably do that sometime.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on Jan 14th 2024 at 5:02:05 AM

Yeah, Code Geass becomes super-fast paced, which mostly works to its benefit, even if I'd like for some things to be explored more (and the whole C's World thing requires you to do a lot of expostulating to be get a clear picture of what's going on).

yep I've rewatch some scenes on You Tube and they surprisingly hold up well.

Knightmare Frames are generally 4 meters in height (Bamides being an exception at 11 meters). They're Mini-Mecha, not Humongous Mecha.

Edited by HallowHawk on Jan 15th 2024 at 2:19:38 AM

They're essentially just walking tanks, more so than how Mobile Suits or something like that.

I only made that reply to Cheap Marzipan over what Knightmare Frames are.

Considering the name, I don't think Knightmare Frames are walking tanks. They're most or less mechanical steeds, hence the "Knight" in "Knightmare". That would make KMF pilots cavalrymen as they fashion themselves to be knights (Britannia's elite KMF unit are called Knights of the Round).

Edited by HallowHawk on Jan 17th 2024 at 12:26:44 PM

Yeah Knightmare's were supposed to be the proverbial mount for Knights to ride on for the modern age. That's why piloting them was supposed to be a huge privilege initially, reserved for elite Britannians only and why Suzaku (an "honorary" Britannian) getting to use the Lancelot was such an unusual thing the Britannians weren't all happy about.

I've heard talk that Ohgi is apparently a very controversial character for giving Lelouch up to Schneizel at the very end of the series. Is it weird I... don't really get that? I mean he did that because he believed Lelouch intentionally caused the stadium massacre as a PR boost for himself... which is completely consistent with the information he has at the time!

It really just seems like the classic forgetting the fact that the characters don't know everything we do.

It’s the fact that he himself betrayed the organization due to his lust for Viletta, someone who is likewise not a good person and intentionally kept things she knew to herself.

It’s not that Lelouch didn’t do stupid shit, it’s that Ohgi did as well and saw himself as morally righteous and was rewarded for it. Nevermind the fact that Schneizel isn’t trustworthy either but they blindly believe him because it’s easier(and Schneizel makes clear he plans on betraying them every time until the situation changes) or the fact he and the Black Knights were willing to throw the rest of their Allie’s under the bus to benefit themselves until that didn’t pan out because Lelouch became Emperor.

Lelouch does stupid short sighted crap and those generally end up backfiring on him in the long run, which makes it a lot more palatable cause the narrative doesn’t let him get what he wants without suffering for it as a result.

Even some of the things he does want can end up happening in a way that he regrets it. Like Rolos sacrifice. He finally got to see him die, but it happens in such a way that Lelouch sees that messed up mentally Rolo might be, he genuinely loves Lelouch regardless of how he felt and was more than willing to die to protect the only family he’s ever known since he was raised as Cults assassin.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 2nd 2024 at 7:54:30 AM

I did not get that he sold out Lelouch just because of Viletta at all. His motive, to me, seemed to be, as mentioned, the fact that Lelouch took credit for the stadium massacre.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Feb 2nd 2024 at 9:58:31 AM

Viletta was part of the reason, and she understood better than anyone how Lelouch Geass works and didn’t tell anyone so she can get out from under Lelouch thumb after he foiled her spying on him for his father.

And the Black Knights planned on claiming Japan at the price of selling out the rest of their alliance, in a deal that Schneizel always intended to betray until the situation changed and the Black Knights set themselves up to be disposable pawns for a different Britannian Prince.

Edit: Also this is not to say that Lelouch is blameless or anything absurd like that. He helped cause this situation too like not revealing that the Geass Order was a cult with child assassins raised to murder people and Mad Scientist. Something he very much should have shared with the soldiers he brought with him, and even give orders to the soldiers to take the kids captive but not to leave their Knightmares.

Editx 2: The recap movie is actually better about this since it shows that despite their reservations the Black Knights DO try to give Lelouch the benefit of the doubt but Lelouch sees that they’re being manipulated by Schneizel and know it won’t end well, which leads him to play the part of just being evil for its own sake to avoid taking any of them or Kallen down with him. (Also Shirley is still alive in this continuity too).

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 2nd 2024 at 8:30:20 AM

. . . the Black Knights betrayed Lelouch because he lied to them.

Because his lies, suspicious behavior, and things he was clearly covering up kept mounting up over the whole season. Lelouch didn't feel the need to explain himself to them, didn't take the time to think about what it looked like from their perspective — didn't have the time to take to think about it, maybe, but that doesn't change what it looked like from their perspective.

It also was not just Ohgi. Watch Tamaki in the scene where Schneizel presents his evidence. Everyone.

Lelouch took their trust for granted.

From the perspective of the Black Knights, they tried to put up a front of loyalty when Schneizel first comes to them saying, "But can you really trust Zero?" but that collapses when Schneizel provides better explanations for Zero's behavior than Zero himself ever did.

I don't remember exactly what the context was, but there's a particularly sharp moment, I think during the China arc, where one of the Black Knights asks Zero why he's doing some obviously Britannian thing (or connecting with someone, maybe one of the Student Council people who was there?) I don't remember, I just remember the framing of it — Zero thinking about something else, plotting, and brushing aside what the Black Knight was saying. I just remember thinking, on rewatching it, "Yes, this is why they betray you!"

And Lelouch understands that when it happens. He's known all along that just the fact that he's a prince of the empire would be enough motivation for them to drop him, no matter what he's done for them. That when they say "It doesn't matter who Zero is!", they aren't considering the one possible identity that's actually his true one.

Unrelated: Akazawa Ryotaro, the actor who played Suzaku in the musical, who I mentioned on the previous page, is voicing a new character in Lost Stories.

Also. Wolf Suzaku, very yes. Milly deserves better. She can even be a cow. I'm so tempted to design a better sexy rocker cow outfit for Milly. But Wolf Suzaku... very yes.

lol soup wolf

Edited by lavendermintrose on Feb 8th 2024 at 5:28:48 AM

No one ever said it was just Ohgi, like there was obvious reasons why Tohdoh and his subordinates would have problems, especially as they were in the dark that one of his dead followers knew Lelouch was Britannian and died saving him regardless, but Ohgi specifically is connected to someone who understands how Lelouch Geass works better than anyone, and said woman is also a Britannian and not a good person herself.

And also, they’re trusting a Britannian Prince to not stab them in the back by making deals with them to pull a coup on another Britannian Prince. Which does not help their case because Schneizel planned to betray them afterwards too, which just makes them look worse and not something the narrative intended with that situation.

Hell they literally couldn’t see the Red Flags of a Flying Fortress with WMD heading into space where they also wouldn’t be able to stop if, say. Schneizel decides to blow them up via Nunally and the switch after it arrives.

In comparison though it’s the things Lelouch does that really get a number of them to turn are over legitimate reasons like the MASS MURDER he commits of children and what look to his men like civilians at the Geass Order. Precisely because he refused to inform his subordinates what the hell the Geass Order does.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 7th 2024 at 1:14:19 AM

What Omega Radiance said.

In addition to what was said, Villetta, on top of what she knew about Geass, was partly responsible for Lelouch being kept under surveillance, and also knew a bit of his more virtuous side (including that he wanted to protect Shirley). Also, Ohgi, for complaining about being used as pawns, used Kallen to lure Zero out.

Part of the reason Schneizel succeeded was the absence of the two smartest people (not) in the room, Kaguya and Xingke.

I think Shirley surviving in the compilation largely invalidated a lot of everything from episode 14 onward. Her death marked the beginning of the end of Lelouch's sanity.

Also, it wasn't just the survival of Ohgi, Villetta, and Cornelia that was controversial, but that the Zero Requiem was the solution when it was more of a death wish, since it meant Lelouch acted more evil to solve everything, which presented a very Warped Aesop.

If none of the above seems controversial, I posit that Abby getting a better ending than Ellie in The Last of Us Part II had something to do with it but that's just me. :P

The claims Schneizel and Viletta make are outlandish and absurd - that Zero is actually a teenage Brittanian prince and has supernatural mind control powers - so of course the Black Knights look like idiots for believing it.

Sure, those claims are true, but the Black Knights had no way of knowing that.

Schneizel did have that recording where Lelouch confessed to controlling Euphie, though. And a whole bunch of people have mysterious gaps in their memories...

Edited by HamburgerTime on Feb 9th 2024 at 9:24:07 AM