This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread
for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.
OP edited to make this header - Fighteer
edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer
Court Dragon
I figure being convncing is just one (broad) skill in the language of social stuff. Defusing hostilities, deflecting suspicions, bribing, threatening and flattering are others, among other things.
I have a message from another time...
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well, he was able to negotiate well with the orcs, so that does seem likely...
In some other systems convincing somebody with lies takes the same check as regular diplomacy skill, but with an extra to prevent them from noticing that you're bullshitting with the bluff-analogue.
I think we should move this discussion to the rules thread. At least the part about the nature of the different skills.
On another note, I think it is a bit strange that Haley could use social skills on a golem.
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
It would make sense to have both a Bluff check to make the other party believe your story and a Diplomacy check afterwards to see if the story is enough to convince him to do what you want him to do.
Still, it doesn't matter in this situation since Haley has probably maxed both skill.
She has a maxed Bluff skill at the very least. Her Diplomacy probably isn't quite as good considering she can't get through to her paranoid father.
edited 31st Mar '15 12:57:13 AM by Arha
Dealing with parents' issues is always an Epic-level challenge.
Only because it's a special plot golem that actually has a peronality and a real mind in it. Normal golem's immunity comes from it lacking anything to get convinced with.
I'm still not convinced. Either Crystal is still really stupid, in which case she should have fixated on Haley until she killed her, or Crystal is somewhat smart, in which case the rational thing to have done would be to finish killing Haley and then go after Bozzok.
She is really stupid, but still sentient. She was given an enemy even bigger than Haley. One with a good reason, nonetheless. She is stupid enough to go after him when she could have killed Haley first.
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
Lost in Space
It's impossible to get crammed into a golem and not suffer personality distortion; in this case, Crystal's motivation has shifted from basic jealousy/rivalry of Haley to blaming her for the pain of her current existence. Haley correctly points out that the pain wasn't caused by her but by Bozzok. This is a completely straightforward example of Talking the Monster to Death.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Regarding the distinction between Bluff and Diplomacy
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That. Also, it really stands out to me that at this point Crystal still really wants to kill Haley, but she really, really wants to kill Bozzok. So, it makes sense both as an emotional and "rational" decision to kill Bozzok first.
Yes, you can argue there's no reason not to kill Haley first and then take care of Bozzok, but at this point, Crystal hates Bozzok more and wants to kill him now, not later.
Indiana Solo
And if you want to get tactical, if she wants to kill him more, it doesn't make sense to get hurt fighting Haley when she's got someone else to kill
I'm baaaaaaack
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Crystal is good at prioritizing, but not good at thinking rationally. The ability to prioritize seems to be a result of the Golem process making her smarter.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Oh come on guys, that makes no sense. You all sound like you're rationalizing. There is literally no cost to Crystal to killing Haley when killing her is so easy, and then going after Bozzok. If she lets Haley go to kill B first, the odds of Haley getting away dramatically increase. And if you tell me that Crystal is too stupid to think that- well all I can say is that it's a very narrow range of IQ that allows Crystal to be smart enough not to kill the enemy in front of her on impulse, yet be dumb enough not to consider the lost opportunity cost of letting Haley go.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Maybe Crystal doesn't want to kill Haley.
Maybe she wants to die. Her rivalry with Haley is from another life, one that wasn't endless physical torture.
edited 31st Mar '15 9:34:22 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
I think that Crystal is just really really pissed off at Bozzok right now.
Never Trust
Nah, Crystal Golem has said repeatedly that she wants to kill Haley. She just wants to kill Bozzok more right now. Haley has just bought time to get away/get reinforcements.
There could also be some spite involved. Bozzok brought Crystal back like this for the express purpose of killing Haley, so Crystal might just want to stick it to him by not doing so on his orders.
edited 31st Mar '15 9:40:55 AM by Kayeka
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Yeah, but she said that before Haley's fantastic appeal to the fact that Crystal's torturous existence isn't actually her fault, after which she stopped trying to kill Haley.
edited 31st Mar '15 9:44:02 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
edited 31st Mar '15 9:44:28 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Crystal didn't just change targets mid-battle. She ended her pursuit entirely, peaceably returned to Bozzok's place with Haley - which isn't a short distance after all that racing through town they've been doing - and then smashed through the wall. Watch how her expression shifts after Haley stops running and confronts her with the cold, hard truth of her murder.
Haley's entire argument revolves around the fact that being dead is a better fate than where Crystal is now, and Crystal bought it. I don't think she has any plans for a future beyond avenging her terrible existence by killing Bozzok. I think she intends to return to her grave after this. Who better to put her back in than Haley?
edited 31st Mar '15 9:46:52 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
One quibble I do have with the strip/Haley's argument. Wouldn't a dead Crystal be in one of the bad afterlives and in quite a lot of pain?
Never assume the D&D rules make simulationist sense. They're primarily for Gamist models, and giving all of the social skills one skill makes it too easy to act as a social master.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.