Headscratchers / Sonic Prime

The Chaos Council

• Just, how do they even exist in the first place? At first they might look like an Alliance of Alternates but they didn't even know about the Shatterverse at first. So, like, what really are they? We know they aren't a family due to Mr. Dr. Eggman's own words. Maybe they're like clones?
  • Clones, most likely.
  • Maybe somehow all of Eggman’s alternate selves ended up in the same location. Possibly because The Prism could tell Eggman’s evil and wanted to minimize the amount of damage his alternate selves could do. Something that’s interesting is that only one of the Shatter Spaces has Eggman Alternates.

Knuckles' voice

• Why exactly does Knuckles (who's voiced by Adam Nurada) have a different voice actor from all of his Shatterverse counterparts (who are all voiced by Vincent Tong)? If it's to help differentiate them more, then how come everyone else's Shatterverse counterparts all have the same VAs as their respective prime universe counterparts?
  • Maybe they had scheduling issues with the VAs?

Chaos Emerald in a Rock

• Why is there a Chaos Emerald just sitting in a rock. Yeah Chaos Emeralds tend to be found in weird places but usually they take at least some effort to acquire (though to be fair most normal people couldn't smash a rock with their bare fists).
  • You said it yourself, they always find themselves in strange places

Dr. Babble's age

• So... has Dr. Babble just been a baby for several years? A flashback in Season 2 shows all five members of the Chaos Council when they razed Green Hill to build New Yolk. It's more forgivable with the older Doctors, but if we're to assume this regime has been going on for years, why is Dr. Babble still in diapers?
  • I guess that perhaps the Council hasn't been around that much. Maybe their whole reign has been around like a single year.
    • If you look at Nine’s Flashback, New Yolk City has been around for at least 4 years.

The Residents of Ghost Hill’s dialogue and briefly coming back.

• After The Prism broke, Sonic’s friends said multiple lines but in Ghost Hill, they only repeat one of their lines. When the Prism Broke, Sonic’s friends were battling Eggman but when they briefly came back, they aren’t confused about their location or what they were doing at all. They were only confused by the world healing wave. Why?

Nine, the Villain?

• The Shatterverse was made by The Original Green Hill breaking, so it stands to reason it and everyone inside will vanish if The Original gets saved. Sonic wanted to fix the Prism before making sure that Nine will be able to survive in the Grim without the shards. Sonic wanted to fix the Prism while Nine was in Ghost Hill, which would keep Nine trapped in Ghost Hill until/unless Sonic takes him away.

So why is NINE the one villainized? SONIC is the one that keeps endangering him.

• Nine's plan is basically the same as Sonic's but with The Grim instead of Green Hill and he's far more of a jerk about it than Sonic was. Him being the villain is justified. Besides, if anything, I feel like they're villainizing SONIC because he didn't go along with Nine's Ass Pull of a plan.
  
  
• Actually Nine wasn’t being a jerk about it at all.
  • Did He give Sonic the option of saying No? Yes. Did Sonic give Nine the option of saying No? Nope.
  • Did He use lies to trick Sonic into trapping himself in The Grim? No. Did Sonic use lies to trick Nine into imprisoning himself in Green Hill and trick Nine + others Into signing their own death warrants? Yep.
  • If Sonic said “Yes” to Nine, would he be able to leave and fix Ghost Hill, any time he wants? Yep. If Nine said “Yes” to Sonic’s crazy plan, would he be free to go back to The Grim any time he wants? Nope.
  • Did Nine make sure that The Grim had everything that Sonic said he likes about Green Hill, so that Sonic would be more comfortable? Yep. Did Sonic make sure Green Hill had everything that Nine said he likes about The Grim? Nope, Sonic can’t even think of anything to like about Green Hill, that doesn’t apply to The Grim,
  • Did Nine allow Sonic to be free from his trauma? Yep. Did Sonic allow Nine to be free from his trauma? Nope.

Nine only started being bad after Sonic made it clear that Nine was going to be killed if he didn’t. If anything, SONIC was the one being a jerk.Also The Show isn’t Villainizing Sonic at all. In the trailer. Shadow accuses Nine of being the Traitor even though, if anything, Sonic was the real traitor. At most, one could argue that Sonic is being held accountable for not thinking things through and being unwilling to compromise.Plus now in the 2nd Trailer, it’s shown everyone is helping Sonic even though he’s planning to kill them all.

• Most of these are twisted or straight up wrong
  • Nine didn't give Sonic the option of saying no either, the closest I can think off is when he introduces Sonic to The Grim, and then the topic is dropped until the season 2 finale where Nine pulls his plan out of nowhere
  • Sonic didn't use lies to trick Nine. He may not have explained it thoroughly, but he didn't lie either
  • The Season 3 trailer is making it brutally clear there is no way Sonic can fix Green/Ghost Hill if Nine does what he wants with The Grim
  • What evidence is there that Sonic wouldn't try to make Green Hill more comfortable for Nine.
  • Again, there is no evidence Nine was going to allow Sonic to be free from his trauma.

And from what we know of Season 3, it's clear that Nine is doing exactly the things Sonic is being accused of, while Sonic

• made it clear he considers (or at least considered) Nine his friend because he's Nine and not Tails
• wants to find a way for both him and Nine to get what he wants

And everyone is helping Sonic because Nine is going to kill them all, while Sonic is trying to keep them safe. Plus, from the way things are going, it's obvious they're trying to find a way for the Shatterverse variants to stay alive while the originals come back at the same time.Sonic isn't doing anything wrong, he's trying to protect the Shatterverse counterparts (which it has been made brutally clear he's friends with because of who they are instead of them just so happening to look like his friends), while Nine is trying to destroy them out of pure selfishness.How can any of this remotely be twisted to make Sonic the bad guy, it doesn't make sense.

• Sonic’s got shard energy, he can go anywhere, any time he wants, nothing would be keeping him in The Grim. There is however something stopping Nine from leaving Green Hill. It’s the fact that The Grim is unlivable and unlike Sonic, Nine doesn’t have shard energy. Nine can’t leave any time he wants.

  • Sonic did indeed use lies to trick others. Battle of the Boscage? Sonic pretended that he was going to help Boscage while in reality, He had no intention of doing so and Sonic has a habit of not following through on his promises. In Cracking Down, When Nine first attempted to Sonic about The Grim’s shard. Sonic told Nine that he couldn’t wait to hear more about The Grim then he proceeded to insist on going to Ghost Hill first despite The Grim being unlivable. When Nine attempted to remind Sonic about the plan to go to The Grim, Sonic couldn’t even remember, implying that it was just a lie to trick Nine. Sonic’s dialogue heavily implies that he was Hoping that after seeing Green Hill, Nine would forget that the plan was to go to The Grim.
  • Season 3 is to be excluded as this is about the first 2 seasons. Ghost Hill IS NOT Green Hill. Do not speak as though they are the same place because they clearly aren’t. As proven in Ghost of a Chance, Ghost Hill only needs the red shard. Nine had very little interest in rebuilding the prism until Cracking Down and even then, it’s because of Sonic’s words.
  • The evidence that Sonic won’t try to help make Green Hill confortable for Nine is that 1. Sonic usually doesn’t follow through with his promises to others unless he somehow benefits. 2. Sonic can’t even name anything in Green Hill that Nine might like that can’t be found anywhere. 3. Sonic literally admitted to trying to get Nine out of his comfort zone.
  • Was Nine trying to force Sonic to stay in Ghost Hill? Nope. That’s how Sonic would be free of his trauma. Plus as mentioned, Sonic could leave The Grim with The Red shard any time he wants. Once again, Season 3 is to be excluded as this is about PRIOR to that.
  • If Sonic wanted Nine to have what he wants, he could have kept their one and only deal or at least offer to help The Grim before fixing Ghost Hill, which he forgot isn’t Green Hill. Instead Sonic forgot all about Nine’s love for The Grim and expected Nine to just go along with Green Hill after seeing it.
  • Again, This is about the first 2 seasons, Season 3 stuff is to be excluded. Sonic hadn’t thought of any ways to make sure that The Shattered Characters will survive Green Hill being restored before he began trying to convince Nine to fix the Prism.
  • If you’re going to Insist on talking about Season 3, it’s implied that keeping the shattered characters alive before Green Hill gets restored was actually NINE’S idea, not Sonic’s. There are subtle signs of the Green Hill portal being made after Nine calms down. No more fighting, Sonic is supposed to be making a sacrifice, Sonic doesn’t think things through and only shattered characters can touch the shards so someone other than Sonic or Shadow must’ve made the Green portal.

But yes, Nine is angry and mentally unstable during season 3. In the clip of Green Hill being fixed, I suspect that since Nine’s reasons for rejecting Green Hill were gone, Sonic might’ve proven to Nine that he can be selfless and They somehow managed to find a way to keep Nine and the other shattered characters alive so Nine might’ve agreed to make Green Hill.

I wasn’t trying that Sonic was the bad guy because he clearly didn’t mean to but just pointing out how He kept endangering Nine, only doing what he wants and forgets almost every single promise that he ever makes. Compared to that, Nine treated Sonic pretty well, especially since he chose being with dictators for who knows how long for weeks just to make Sonic happy. (Though Nine is possessive.)

• First of all, you brought up Season 3 first. Or you not write the sentence "Plus now in the 2nd Trailer, it’s shown everyone is helping Sonic even though he’s planning to kill them all.", a sentence that can ONLY apply to the most recent trailer for Season 3.
  • What evidence is there that Sonic had 0 intent to help rebuild the Boscage Maze. I understand where you're coming from (There would be no Boscage to help rebuild if the Shatterspaces were destroyed), but from what I took away, the only reason he didn't go back to help was because he was preoccupied with the Chaos Council in No Place. Likewise, I don't think Sonic wasn't excited to see what was going on with The Grim, it was just he either A. Forgot (very reasonable with everything that actually went on in both Cracked Down and Ghost of a Chance) or B. Wasn't expecting the news to be about using the Shards in the Grim (yes, Nine did mention something occurring with The Grim, but that justifies him being a villain even more because he had the chance to mention using the shards then and there when Sonic could've maybe understood more, but didn't)
  • I mentioned Green Hill and Ghost Hill as the same because they've got an identical layout and at one point in Ghost of a Chance, it's actively shown Ghost Hill would transform back into Green Hill if all the shards were placed in the Prism blueprint. Nine very much had intent of rebuilding the Prism, since he actively stated he only came to Ghost Hill to check where the shards went in the blueprint before announcing his plan with the shards in The Grim (which from Sonic's POV, did indeed come out of nowhere), which mind you, happened before Sonic's words.
  • 1. I've given an example of why Sonic "doesn't follow through on his promises", it's because he ends up pre-occupied with other events. Besides, there's no scenario where he follows through on something because he'll benefit from it. 2. Sonic could and very much would do anything to make Nine more comfortable because that's what their relationship is like (before Nine's heel faced turn that is) 3. At what point in the entire show did Sonic ever say anything remotely like that?
  • Point 2 also applies to Nine as well. There's also nothing in the Grim that Sonic likes that don't also apply to Green Hill. Yes, Nine did state that The Grim could be the home Sonic lost, but it's way too vague what that even means, and it's never brought up again
  • Even if we exclude Season 3 and just focus on what's in the first 2 seasons, it's implied Nine was NOT forcing Sonic to stay in Ghost Hill, but he WAS going to force Sonic to live in The Grim, which won't cure any of Sonic's trauma since he'll still have to live with the fact he shattered his old home and all his old friends are now emotionless ghosts repeating the same lines over and over.
  • Sonic and Nine never made any deals with each other. Nine pitched the idea and Sonic changed the subject, and then the Grim was never mentioned again until Cracking Down
  • Yes, Sonic didn't think about what would happen to the Shatterverse counterparts (I might be supporting him but he wasn't a saint in this scenario either), but neither did Nine. And unlike Sonic, who began second-guessing his plan after hearing that information, Nine went right ahead and took the shards to the Grim despite the same consequences that applied to Sonic's plan applying to his as well. And this isn't even talking about Season 3, because we actually see the consequences of Nine's actions there.
  • Sonic was the one who suggested to, and I quote, "find a way to bring back Green Hill and stabilize the Shatterspaces", in literally the first piece of dialogue from the first piece of footage from Season 3. But all in all, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt and believe Nine was the one who made that portal for the time being until Season 3 comes out.

And overall, Season 3 does seem to be suggesting that Sonic and Nine both get what they want at the end of the day, which should satisfy both sides of this argument. Sonic does have flaws, but so does basically every character in this show. I'd also say Sonic treated Nine pretty well too, to the point where he ended up disagreeing with nearly every character during Season 2 because Nine is his friend. All I'm going to say is that both Sonic and Nine have their strengths and flaws and it's not wrong to support either (even though I'm team Sonic)

Why didn't Shadow do anything to stop Nine from leaving with the shards?

Shadow states that he doesn't trust Nine alone with the shards. However, when he shows up to see Nine walking away with them, clearly having turned against Sonic (who is in a defeated state), he just stands there and watches the situation until Nine leaves. He doesn't try to fight him, get the shards out of his grasp, or stop him from leaving. Why?

While Shadow may not have directly seen what the shards' powers can do, like Sonic did, it's still clearly dangerous to let an enemy walk away with them. Nine didn't seem to notice Shadow was there, and he even stopped to talk before entering the portal, which would give Shadow a prime opportunity to surprise him with an attack.

Furthermore, on a psychological level, Shadow has been waiting a long time for Sonic to bring the shards, they are right at the blueprint area, and he doesn't know that there is a missing shard or that Nine has already tried assembling the shards in the blueprint. All this and he just silently watches as someone takes the shards away?

One possibility is that Shadow thought starting a fight would be reckless, given that Nine had already defeated Sonic (or appeared to have done so) and Shadow didn't know how strong he could be with four shards, or anything about how the shards' powers worked. It would make strategic sense if he wanted to wait until Sonic was back up, and not tired after fighting the Chaos Council, so that they could fight Nine together (as they end up doing in S3 E1). However, it doesn't really seem like Shadow to hold back just because he doesn't know the enemy's power or because he wants to wait for backup from Sonic of all people.

Episode Titles

Why is S3 E5 named "Home Sick Home"? None of the characters show any homesickness. Things that happen include the characters running away from Grim Big, Shadow returning, the Amys beginning to refer to each other as sisters, Mr. Dr. Eggman defeating Grim Big with his laser, Shadow getting introduced to everyone, and Sonic beginning to execute his sneak attack plan.

• It could refer to how the idea of Nine defeating everyone so that he can live peacefully in the Grim would be a sickening and twisted idea of home.
• It stands in contrast to S3 E2, called "Dome Sweet Dome"—instead of temporarily hiding out under a shield, the characters are now fighting for the safety and/or existence of their home dimensions.

And why is S2 E3 called "Second Wind"? How does it relate to the idea of renewed vigor or a second chance? Sure, pirates need wind in their sails, but it seems a little irrelevant compared to other episodes' puns like "Barking Up The Wrong Tree" and "No Way Out" (No Place). All that happens is that Sonic comes to No Place and helps the pirates fight off the Chaos Council.

• It could be referring to Rusty switching allegiances, getting a "second chance" to be good and a renewed purpose.

Why was Nine smiling at the end of "Situation: Grim"?

In the final scene of "Situation: Grim", the Chaos Council beams Nine and his craft up. Mr. Dr. Eggman says "With our shard and your tech, you've just handed us the universe on a silver platter". Nine looks up at the Council heading up into the ship with a concerned face, but then he smiles, as if he has realized somthing positive about the situation.

However, Nine never seems to gain any advantage from being kept prisoner. In "Cracking Down", Nine breaks out, Sonic breaks into the base, and they both escape with the three shards, but this wasn't something he could have predicted.

Was this foreshadowing for an Aborted Arc? Or have I just not grasped its meaning?

I always thought that it had something to do with the phrase "our shard and your tech", and that he realized that getting captured gave him the chance to steal or use the Council's tech.

• Maybe he was smiling because he knew that there was still another shard in the Grim that the Council didn't know about?

• Maybe he was smiling because the phrase "your tech" implied they needed to rely on his knowledge and that meant he could easily sabotage them? But then he gave up on the idea in "There's No ARRGH in 'Team'" when they started to threaten him.

• It's explained in "Battle in the Boscage": Nine claims he is "working them from the inside", and says that he learned from being in the Council base how to reprogram Sonic's regulators so that he won't teleport from touching a shard. So yes, he did smile because: A. he anticipated being able to observe/use their technology for his benefit. B. he thought he could sabotage them from the inside (which he did already try to do a form of in "There's No ARRGH in 'Team'", when he told them not to eliminate Sonic because he still had prism energy). Also, C. he could use his inside knowledge of their operations to help Sonic on the outside to stop them, once the communicators were installed.

Why does Sonic hear Renegade (New Yoke) Knucks's voice when he goes from the Grim to New Yoke in "Situation: Grim"?

"Sonic? Sonic!"

This is the only time Sonic ever hears the voice of someone not in the Void while in the Void, not counting the huge holographic versions of the original universe's characters that appear when the prism first shatters.

It doesn't seem like Knucks would have been actually saying this at the time, considering Sonic had disappeared and he was in the middle of fighting the Council's robots.

• He probably didn’t. That was 90% actually SHADOW. Shadow’s been trying to contact Sonic the entire first season. However by the finale, Shadow realized that just calling for Sonic wasn’t enough because Sonic was just going to keep traveling through the shatterspaces so he pushed a giant shard in front of Sonic to stop Sonic’s traveling.

What would happen if Sonic touched the yellow shard or the Grim's shard?

Where would Sonic have been transported if he had touched the yellow shard in Ghost Hill in "Avoid The Void"? We never get to know this, since Shadow tells him not to touch it.

In S1, touching red led to Boscage, touching green led to No Place, and touching blue led back to New Yoke. It's not clear if they're supposed to be linked to those specific worlds, or if Sonic just zipped off to a random Shatterspace.

So would touching yellow have taken him to the Grim? Or would it just have sent him to one of the other three worlds? There doesn't seem to be any other unseen 6th world. Maybe the yellow shard would have done nothing because it was in blueprint-form or inactive.

The same questions go for the Grim's shard.