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Daniel's fate
- I was just wondering, at the end of Saw II, what happened to Daniel after he's saved?
- Hopefully, therapy.
- The only thing we know so far is that he was hospitalized, according to The Scott Tibbs Documentary.
The Needle Pit
- Where did Jigsaw get the crapton of (presumably) used syringes for the needle trap (also to stuff the toilets with in the video game)? I thought maybe the hospital where he was diagnosed with brain cancer, but then I realized that most hospitals lock up the used sharps boxes to prevent cross-contamination.
- His wife is helping drug addicts, Amanda was/is a drug addict, Hoffman is a cop. It's not much of stretch to think that one of those three would have been able to get used syringes.
- You can buy syringes by the box of a hundred. Faked prescriptions or, even easier, a faked business that happens to include a pharmacy and buy 'em by the case. Used syringes don't look much different from new ones — all you'd need to do is take the protective caps off.
- Also, some cities actually have needle and syringe programs where clean ones are provided for free, to lessen the spread of blood-borne diseases and such.
The whole scheme
- How did John not only figure out that Eric Matthews had planted evidence to on some of the people he arrested, but which of his arrestees he'd done it to?
- Saw IV and Saw V reveal that John has access to police department records and goings-on via Mark Hoffman, his apprentice and successor. Hoffman is shown setting up the main trap for Saw II, so it's conceivable that Hoffman was the one providing John with the investigative records from Eric's cases.
- John set a non-lethal trap for one of the police officers that raided his base. What was the point of that? Was is just John being an asshole? Or was there some sort of lesson it was supposed to teach the entirely randomly selected police officer who was first up the stairs?
- Not every trap Jigsaw designs is a game. The traps to defend his base of operations were just that: defenses.
- Furthermore, this was shown back in the first film when Tapp and Sing surprise Jigsaw in his then-lair and attempt to prevent one of his traps from killing a victim. When they complete that and go after him, Tapp almost has him, only for John to slit his throat — and when Sing continues going after him at Tapp's insistence, his head is blown off by a ceiling booby trap triggered by a trip wire he walks into. Tapp and Sing weren't test subjects, but if someone invades his lair, John isn't above using lethal force. Also note that by the time Saw IV rolled around, the police had gotten much more savvy, and used a robot to examine the room where Kerry's body was, probably because the SWAT incident in this film made them wise up and realize they had to be much more careful when it comes to confronting John on his own turf.
- Not every trap Jigsaw designs is a game. The traps to defend his base of operations were just that: defenses.
- John and Amanda's scheme could've easily fallen apart. It relies on playing mind games with Eric to see if he'll crack before finding out his son is alright. However, while Daniel had already been administered the antidote and isn't at risk for succumbing to the nerve gas in the house, he could've died in other ways. He came close to being murdered by Xavier, and any of the other people in the house could've killed him out of vengeance upon discovering his connection to Eric. He also could've volunteered himself or been forced into a trap, which he then could've failed as well.
- Daniel is at risk of the nerve gas, like everyone else. He's young and strong, but he bears the rash everyone else does around their necks at the midway point, and in the bathroom, he's reached the point where he's bleeding like everyone else. The syringe Eric finds when he finally makes it to the house next to the safe is the antidote, and was given to him by Amanda after the fight with Xavier in the bathroom.
- As for vengeance from the others, if you rewatch, you'll notice that everywhere Eric is, so is Amanda. She's on the peripheral sometimes, but aside from when they first leave the room and Amanda is playacting looking behind pictures and whatever for clues, and later when she "discovers" Daniel is Eric's son, she's in the same room as him, sometimes even right by him, likely to make sure nothing happens. How she would have prevented it is unclear, but it's very apparent on rewatching that she's his shadow. And when Laura dies and Addison leaves in a huff, she only leaves him alone for a brief amount of time before rejoining him, and remains by his side for the remainder of the film. Daniel is also the only survivor that Amanda even remotely opens up to. And by doing so, she gains his trust so much that he ends up killing Xavier to protect her.
- Furthermore, what would happen if others managed to successfully retrieve and administer themselves the antidote, only to realize Amanda and Daniel didn't need it? Wouldn't they realize at least one of them was in on it and be furious? Would Amanda give herself and Daniel a needle full of the antidote just to save face? Is that a good idea if they're not actually being poisoned?
- As noted above, only Amanda is dosed and unaffected by the nerve gas. Daniel develops the rash and starts coughing up blood like everyone else once he and Amanda reached the bathroom.
- Based on the disparate group of people, John probably anticipated that there would be strife among the members, and that lack of cooperation would make them unable to successfully complete their traps. Obi, who kidnapped them, is surely locked up with them to help create strife, and it works. Xavier also has a my way or the highway personality, so John may also have anticipated Xavier behaving the way he does, which again, ended up working against everyone. Also, in several cases, the traps are doomed for failure. Obi, according to the director, has a phobia of fire, which is precisely why the second antidote is hooked to the mechanism that latches and activates the furnace. Yes, John covers himself by giving Obi an easy out to save himself, but he also likely knows Obi is too afraid to use it. As for the needle pit, it would have been hard for Xavier to find the key himself, but then Xavier pretty much plays exactly into John's hand by throwing Amanda in there in his place. Amanda likely has a general idea of where the key is actually located, and it's very possible that Amanda convincingly dragged out the search to find the key to make sure too much time passed for Xavier to use the key effectively. She's putting herself through a lot of pain by doing so, but don't forget, this trap is ultimately revenge against Matthews, who did a number of things that ended up getting her hooked on drugs in the first place, so it's likely she could have shouldered the pain and dragged out the search because of the ultimate goal of potentially getting back at Matthews.
- It's important to remember too that in a way, the entire house group is a bit of a decoy. Yes, they've obviously continued to do things that kept them in trouble in most cases, but ultimately, the whole reason they are there is because John wants to psychologically torture Eric with the knowledge that his son is locked up with an entire group of people who all hate Eric's guts, and thus may take revenge against Daniel in Eric's stead. Yes, Eric knowing his son was breathing a nerve gas that would eventually kill him was bad enough, but knowing that, AND knowing that the people in the house may turn on him at any moment when they find out who he is is just fuel for the fire.
- On another level, if the people trapped in the house were supposed be able to use those numbers on the backs of their necks as a lock combination, why was one of the traps designed to burn its victim to a crisp? If Obi hadn't crawled far enough to stick his head through the hatch of the furnace before expiring, his number-marking would have been char-broiled into illegibility before anyone noticed it on his neck.
- Well, there's the argument that in Jigsaw's mind, Obi wasn't supposed to be burned to a crisp and that he was supposed to survive the trap. However, it doesn't account for the fact that Obi failing could hypothetically condemn the entire group, so either Jigsaw really counted on him living or didn't think about the consequences of him failing. Or maybe he's just so omniscient that he knew Obi would die in the trap with his neck unscathed.
- Or maybe Jigsaw doesn't really care that much about how fair the games are; plenty of them are only really passable in theory- how can somebody cut out their own eye, find a key in the socket, and then unlock a huge device on the back on their head in under a minute? What are the chances that someone covered in grease can walk around a floor covered in glass with nothing but a candle to light the way, kneeling and standing and going back and forth for hours, wouldn't fumble at some point? It doesn't really matter if Obi burning would have doomed everyone else. So long as it was technically possible at the beginning, it's fine.
- Fair to point out that the safe only contains one antidote. So even if the victims figured out the number clue early and were able to open the safe while all of them were relatively healthy, only one of them would be able to stop the effects of the antidote by opening the safe, so the outcome of the game and the desperation of the victims to find an antidote wouldn't be lessened that heavily whether the safe was accessed or not. But in actuality...They're probably not really supposed to be able to open the safe. Remember, the safe door is opened and the used syringe is on the floor when Matthews finds Jonas' body. It becomes more noticeable on a rewatch. Why? Because Amanda gave that dose to Daniel to save him from the nerve gas effects. While everyone gets some sort of a chance in the game, Daniel isn't actually being tested and his safety is such a high priority of John and Amanda that Amanda actually enters the game as a sort of sleeper agent to make sure he remains okay. The antidote in the safe is meant to be virtually impossible to get to, because it's been placed there to virtually guarantee that whatever happens in the house, Amanda will absolutely have a dose of the nerve gas antidote to save Daniel. Yes, it's risky because if the participants had more cooperation, and Xavier wasn't a complete dick, it may have been very hard for Amanda to get the antidote to Daniel without being noticed, as more people might have still been alive, but John and Amanda anticipated a lack of cooperation, and helped guide things to their natural conclusion by Amanda seemingly being active while actually being inactive. They could also feel relatively safe that things would go to plan because the character's critical thinking skills become more addled and they become weaker the longer they breathe the gas. Case in point, Addison, who bungles both of her wrists into the razor trap. She actually puts the second wrist through after she's pulled apart the antidote in the trap with her first hand, spilled it, and rendered it virtually useless. They likely anticipated the number on the back of the head would go unnoticed for the majority of the time, and that the victims would become so addled that Amanda would be able to get to the safe and give Daniel an antidote without giving up the game. Xavier's Axe-Crazy breakdown comes at the perfect time to basically guarantee them the win.
The Sequencing Deception
- How was that time-shifting antic even possible? Okay, I am fine with the fact the entire Gas House plotline was apparently one giant flashback that just happened to be shown simultaneously with "present days" in the same fashion.
BUT!
How on g-d's Earth did two days pass? First we see Eric yelling at Daniel. That was Day 1. Then, the next day, we see him waking up to walk into the crime scene. Then, at night of the same day, he wakes up again when he has his Eureka moment. "That still only counts as one!" Or you want to tell me Daniel got abducted RIGHT AFTER he had an argument with his dad?- It could, theoretically be possible the time frame is a bit more than a day. It's not the next day when Eric is called to the crime scene, it's that same night, as he calls Daniel to apologize after their fight earlier that day, then gets called to the scene by Kerry, with him even saying that he initially thought her phone call was Daniel's. Eric's still in his clothes, sans his sport coat, and pulls it on as the scene transitions. So it would go like this: Eric and Daniel fight, he calls later that night to apologize, then gets called to Michael's crime scene. They go back to the station after viewing the crime scene. Since this is her investigation now, Kerry would be keyed up, so she dives into the tape left for Michael. Eric and Kerry argue and Kerry leaves. Eric stays at the station a bit longer to work on a report, gets tired, goes home, goes back to bed, but can't sleep, and then has his epiphany at say, between 3 and 5 that morning, and they prep the SWAT team raid later that morning. The Nerve Gas House game was likely going on and video recorded while Eric, Kerry, and the others were investigating the crime scene, or even shortly before. After that game was over, John and Amanda could have held Daniel captive somewhere until it was time to put him in the safe with the oxygen supply. When Amanda brings Daniel to the warehouse during the reveal scene, John is leisurely working on trap designs, so the game has ended and Daniel is safely unconscious and captive long before the SWAT team arrives. Since Hoffman was later revealed to have been another cohort of Jigsaw as far back as this film, he could have tipped John off from the police station as to when Eric, Kerry and the SWAT team were on their way, giving Amanda enough time to stash Daniel in the safe and clear out of Jigsaw's hiding spot to go to the Nerve Gas House and wait if Eric fails his test (which he does).
The Death Mask
- Is it actually possible for someone to remove one of their own eyes? What happens if they try to remove their eye like Michael in the Death Mask?
- In the first trap, is it realistically possible for someone to remove a key behind their eye and survive? Or even, is it possible for someone to actually try doing that?
- There have been a few cases on record of mentally-ill people, either schizophrenics or those who are having a bad drug trip, who have been able to tear out their own eyeballs and remain conscious. The fact that ALL of those people were not in their right mind does lend credence to the theory that while it CAN be done, for 98% of people it's not going to be successful when you only have a minute to do so. As to whether or not a key can be placed behind the eyeball that you can then just yank out, that likely falls under Artistic License – Biology, given it's questionable if someone's fingers could even reach that far back into the eye socket.
