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Timothy's sentence
- Forgive my lack of understanding of the legal system- but how could Timothy get 6 months in prison, as opposed to a longer sentence, due to lack of witnesses? Either he killed Jeff's son or he didn't. The court would need witnesses to prove it was him who did it but once they'd done that (which they did) what further role could witnesses play in determining his sentence? You'd think Timothy would have gotten a reduced sentence due to lenience or sympathy from Judge Halden. Lack of witnesses just doesn't make sense.
- This would depend on how it was seen. The legal system can see it as an accidental death, which would carry a lighter sentence, reckless driving, drunk driving, hit and run, etc. Without a witness to say if the car was say, speeding or driving erratically, it can be easy to present it as an accident.
- Timothy's lawyer might also have argued that Jeff's son ran out into the road very suddenly. If no witness was available to dispute such a claim, it would've been easier to argue that, drunk or not, Timothy couldn't have seen the boy until it was too late.
Amanda's victims
- Jigsaw told Amanda that she killed 4 victims. They seems to be Adam, Eric, Kerry, and Troy, but in Saw IV it is revealed that Eric was just captured by Amanda, not killed. So who was the 4th victim? Was it Lawrence? Could it be possible that after the end of the first movie Amanda found Lawrence in the passage outside the room and killed him and this is exactly what Jigsaw was speaking of? Or is someone else is the 4th victim? I don't understand.
- Her "dead" cellmate.
- That doesn't make sense because she had to kill him for the game, and she didn't kill him out of mercy (Adam) or as part of the game (Kerry and Troy), she killed him because she had to or she would've died. There was also an unused part of the story where Amanda really did kill Eric but the director took it out. So maybe, that's what Jigsaw meant. I don't know.
- I just rewatched III, and I don't recall her ever giving a number of victims. She just says "That's right, I'm a murderer" when confronted with what happened to Eric Matthews. She never explicitly says she killed him, though it is heavily implied. That's the Unrated version. The director's cut (which I haven't seen) may have different dialog on one or more of these points.
- Jigsaw said that because that's what Leigh and James wrote in the script. Saw III was supposed to be the end, Eric was supposed to die. In fact, Eric's actor Donnie Wahlberg apparently only came back on the condition that his character be ended and was pissed off when he saw that he wasn't. There was originally a scene showing Amanda returning to Eric and stabbing him in the throat, as someone mentioned above. However, they were made to take it out as one of the edits they made to make Saw IV possible (others include the scene of Jigsaw pouring wax on the tape), so instead they just showed Amanda angrily walk back to Eric when he starts mocking her.
- Maybe she didn't know Eric was alive. Amanda and Hoffman both worked for Jigsaw, but not always together; he was the one who set up Eric's final trap after Amanda "left him for dead". And Jigsaw let her think she'd killed him because the intent is what matters.
- The actual issue is related to a real-world one, not a plot hole. The original script for Saw III has Amanda outright killing Eric, and apparently the scene was even fully filmed. At the last minute, Lionsgate executives made them cut the scene short on the hopes they could convince Donnie Wahlberg to return for Saw IV. However, because of how last-minute the change was, John still says four people instead of three.
- I recall Jigsaw saying this right after Amanda shot Lynn. I took this as Jigsaw foreseeing the chain reaction about to ensue and saying that Amanda's decision to shoot Lynn effectively killed 4 people: Amanda and Jigsaw (via Jeff), Lynn (via shotgun collar), and Jeff (via Strahm).
- That's exactly right. John's line is "You've *just* killed four people. He's referring to the chain reaction of all of their deaths, and adding to the irony is that Amanda just essentially killed herself. The only gray area is if John meant Jeff's death, via Strahm, or, more chillingly, Corbett's death, as the film ends with Jeff finding out she's been kidnapped and that he's been left with no way to save her since John can't tell him what he needs to do.
- Her "dead" cellmate.
Danica's involvement
- Danica has never made any sense to me. She is supposedly a witness of the drunk driving accident. She never testified at trial, and never told anyone of authority what she saw. So... how could Jigsaw possibly know that she witnessed the accident?
- Jeff knew she saw something and may have tried to contact her. Jigsaw found out.
- Her car might've been glimpsed by Jeff at the scene of the accident, with enough of a description and/or partial plate number to identify it as her's. The police traced the lead as they were investigating the incident, but Danica refused to admit she'd seen anything because she didn't want the hassle of testifying. Hoffman told Jigsaw, either because he was the one who looked into the boy's death (and caught on that she was lying), or because he learned about it from police gossip.
- First and foremost, Jeff never knew there was an eye-witness. If you look closely, you'll see he was actually trying to free her without a second thought. It was only because of Jigsaw's tape that he started doubting and flashbacking into the day his son died, thus ceasing to help Danica.
How could Amanda abduct Kerry?
- How did Allison Kerry get caught by Amanda? It's shown that there was nowhere to hide from the direction she came from, so Kerry should've seen her.
Couldn't John just take legal action?
- If John knew all about Dylan Denlon's death, including who ran over him, who witnessed his death and the judge who put his murderer on trial, why didn't John testify on Jeff's behalf during the trial?
- I think he didn't know about the case at the time the trial was taking place. He might have only been made aware when he found out about Jeff's life circumstances in the present.
- LOL, why would a Jigsaw of all bloody people help Jeff? He is not that kind of person who would do it for him. I mean, we are talking about the very person who abducted and murdered Jeff's daughter (yeah-yeah, she was still alive technically, but we all know better, especially after the ending).
What John does to Amanda
- After Amanda survived her test, why did John go to meet her at her apartment and reveal his identity as Jigsaw? Yeah, Amanda felt that John had rehabilitated her and agreed to become his apprentice, but what would have happened if Amanda, like other victims, didn't appreciate his "help" and called up the police to arrest him? John's games could have come to an end much sooner.
- Unless John already had another victim, like he always did. In fact, the Jigsaw was so able to walk away from captivity simply because almost any time he could have been killed, somebody else lost a chance to be released from his traps.
- You'd think they would have mentioned it if John had abducted Amanda's mother, brother, etc; anyone else wouldn't give her sufficient reason not to kill or turn him in, and as incompetent as the police in this universe are, one or two hostages isn't going to ensure they'll just let a dangerous serial killer go. Jigsaw only escaped in the last film because Eric made one of the franchise's signature moments of idiocy and defied all police procedure to take John away from the rest of the police. More likely, this was just one more case of John playing Gambit Roulette and it working out.
Amanda's character
- Amanda goes from being fully behind John in the second film and playing her part in the nerve gas test to perfection... even witnessing the accomplishment of her real objective: Matthews' complete and total failure of John's test, to... whatever she is in this. It seems a bit of an abrupt personality change for the character, even with the flashbacks trying to explain it. While this was largely due to the decision, while filming, to go for a Shakespearean tragedy ending and have all the main characters (save for Jeff) killed off, but it's still a very sudden personality shift, especially after the satisfied smile Amanda gives John at the end of the second film when she brings Daniel to John and says without speaking that everything in the Nerve Gas House went exactly to plan.
- Basically, power corrupts. John has endowed Amanda with great responsibility (within his twisted moral framework) to judge people but with the attendant expectation that they may have something of a fair (quote/unquote) chance to escape their traps (if perhaps maimed) and gain a new appreciation for life. But with John becoming more frail and infirm through the course of his illness, she was able to misuse her power as one of the major trapmasters, obviously came to appreciate being able to do so, and he was unable to reprimand her until he devised a situation on his deathbed where he could give her one last chance to reform or else die in punishment for her misdeeds.
About Jeff
- Just how stupid is Jeff, really? Look, I am totally NOT blaming him on taking too much time when thinking whether he should spare people who were essentially architects of his suffering. The fact he actually found some willpower to save them is rather impressive. However, the sheer fact he's been through the Jigsaw's "playground" and seen many weird devices intended to cause immense suffering and/or death but somehow totally fails to recognise the same thing around his wife's neck still puzzles me. If only he just stopped to ask Lynn what the Hell it was, and she told him how literally vital sparing Jigsaw really was at that point, the most infuriating ending in history would never have happened.
- He likely recognised it as some kind of death-device, he just didn't guess what it was or what triggered it, and Lynn was too hurt to vocalise properly. Of course, he didn't need to know about the heartbeat monitor to know attacking John would be a bad idea, since John could've been hiding a trigger to it in his hand, but this series wouldn't be the same if the characters didn't make dumb decisions.
The Freezing Room
- Also, one more thing: how on god's Earth does that freezer trap even work? I find it ridiculous that nobody ever thought water takes way longer time to freeze all over, and while I do believe Jeff might have had some problems reaching over and grabbing the key and then tearing himself from the frozen bars, the result of his attempts still looks less likely to happen, the more you think into it. Rule of Scary as it is.
About a deleted scene
- In one early version of the script, Jeff was going to discover Steven Sing's rotting corpse, which means that the police never discovered the mannequin factory after the first film. How was this going to pan out? David Tapp was there and found Sing's corpse after his death, so how would he not have told the police where Sing's body was so they could bury him? The first film even states that Tapp was discharged and suffered a breakdown due to Sing's death, so the police obviously knew that Sing had died.
- That scene was pretty much cut because it didn't make much sense for those reasons.
Amanda should have died from Eric's beating
- Seriously, he has a serious weight and muscular advantage on her, and he bashes her with a metal rod before slamming her head multiple times into a wall. How do the writers expect us to believe she could survive that? The facial injuries alone look severe enough. Yes, he had a crushed foot and wanted to coerce Daniel's whereabouts out of her, but the wound doesn't seem to stop him from kneeling and attacking full force with his arms, and she should have just died before she could respond to his demand. Or at have least suffered serious brain damage.
