Headscratchers / Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War

All the women escaped!

• Also, if the Belhalla Massacre happens pretty much immediately after the events of chapter 5, how is it that a pairing that only reached lover status during that chapter still gets to have two children?
  • I'd been thinking on that a lot myself and here's what I figure: One, the maps are huge and you'd have to take Real Time into account. The player can go from Zaxon to Lubeck in half an hour or 20 turns or whatever, but to the soldiers marching it takes WAY longer so there was most likely time for the couples to marry and have their first kid. Two, only Sigurd was confirmed to have died at Bahara, everyone else except Edain either died or went missing. Third, Nanna and Tinny are confirmed to have been born after Bahara and it's commonly assumed Corple was as well.
    • I also recall that Sylvia, Tityu, Lachesis, Briggid, Adean, and Fury all survived Bahara, which would mean that any husband they had could have possibly gotten them pregnant before that battle. This does make one wonder about Ira, though, since nothing about her survival was ever confirmed...
    • What you have to remember is that the maps represented in FE4 are not the same as most other Fire Emblems. Maps in all other Fire Emblems are about the size of a fort, or a small battlefield. FE4 has maps that are the size of countries. Each chapter isn't a small skirmish, they are full-scale wars, with each chapter being about a year in length. It is entirely possible for a pairing in Chapter 5 to result in two children, especially since all the relevant mothers are confirmed to survive, aside from Arya. But Larcei and Ulster are special; they're twins. But considering how early Arya joins you, you'd have to suck pretty bad to not pair off Arya before Chapter 5.

Think of the children!

• Cuan and Ethlin's deaths. Not that they happened, but that they'd brought Altenna with them when they happened. If you're going to catch the Distress Ball, catch it for yourself, not your three-year-old daughter.
  • And miss out on having a Long Lost Sibling raised by the Enemy? Anyway, Ethlin was only bringing Altenna to the country's border (she had planned to join up with Sigurd too, but Cuan convinced her to go back for both of their sakes).

Those damn paladins!

• Those damn paladins in chapter 2 of Seisen no Keifu. You'd think three fully promoted Augustrian knights could do a little better out there, especially considering they most likely trained under Eltosian himself.
  • It's probably because Manfroy was skulking about Agustria around the time of Chapter 2. He must have tested out his brainwashing spell for Deirdre on Eve and his brothers to make sure it worked; this resulted in severe memory loss, so the paladins couldn't remember basic tactics anymore and just suicidally charged the nearest enemies over and over again.

But do you spell it with an S?

• The fact that people can't seem to agree on the names of FE4 characters bugs me. Aideen/Adean/Edin? Ira/Aira/Ayra? Midir/Midayle? Eltshan/Eltosian? Deirdre/Diadora/Didir? And what is up with some the names of the 2nd Gen. characters like Lackche, Skasaha, Delmud, etc.? These names has made me appreciate No A's name changes for English Fire Emblems so much more...
  • They can't agree on FE6 character names either. Cass/Cath? Ray/Rei? This seems to be an accidental difficulty in translation. I mean, how are you really going to find out which one IS actually intended?
    • I wish those were as bad as it got. Purists insist on spelling Ray's name as Lleu due to some technicality about how Japanese characters are romanized, despite the fact that the appropriate pronunciation for those characters is "Ray" anyway!
    • Where "some technicality", as far as I can tell (after a bunch of Googling), is a (fairly reasonable) guess that they meant for the character to be named after the Welsh Lleu (to match the Celtic Lugh). Which actually is pronounced Rei - as far as the Japanese would be able to render it, anyway. Actually, about as far as most English speakers would be able to render it. Welsh has weird vowels. Considering that FE has come up with names like "Bartre" that are complete tongue-twisters for the Japanese, I think this gets a pass. But make no mistake: "Lleu" definitely does not come from any romanization scheme. You'd have to be smoking something pretty awesome to use a double-ell for romanizing Japanese.
  • Relax! It's to be expected with the ambiguous nature of translating names. Go for literal? Go for something with a more natural look and sound? Or maybe figure out which obscure Greek/Celtic/Finnish/Belgian figure they were named for. Of course a broad and diverse fan base can't come to a unified consensus. Heck, people still disagree even when NOA gives us something concrete (as I am guilty of sometimes, but I don't hold my name choices against others).

Ishtar's secret class

• In FE4: Why does Ishtar, a Sage, have a Mage Fighter battle sprite?
  • Simple. The Mage Fighter battle sprite has a ponytail.

Time travellers

• The kids' ages in the second generation of FE4. Celice is born in the timespan between the end of chapter 2 and the beginning of chapter 3, he spends a year in Silesia and then seventeen years later he and the other kids take up arms against the Empire. He and probably Lakche, Skasaha and Lester ought to be about 18 by now, but they give the impression of being several years younger. Were they just really sheltered, or did they just not do the math correctly when they made up the timeline?
  • Considering that the world went to heck in a handbasket after the timeskip, it wouldn't surprise me if they were sheltered from just how bad it could get.

Adean X Lex 4 EVER!

• In Genealogy of the Holy War, why is it that Lester resembles Lex so strongly? I mean, it can't just be a coincidence...they look practically identical! Is IS trying to suggest that Lex and Adean had an affair at some point (Ã la Fin and Lachesis) or is Lex the "canon" lover? All of the other children at least resemble their mothers partially, but Lester is quite the anomaly. (This might actually be a good WMG theory now that I think about it.)
  • It depends on what you look at. His hair is blue and brushed back the same way that Lex's is, but looking at his sprite and artwork, his facial structure resembles Adean's more than Lex, with the narrow face and pointy chin (which are also qualities shared by Midayle, one of her canon pairings). It's possible that someone in the Ulir line married someone from Neir or Baldo somewhere along the line, and the blue-hair genes just happened to pop up in Lester.

Who needs a holy weapon, anyway?

• Why doesn't Lord Ring have Ichival with him? Instead, Aideen is apparently carrying it around.
  • Aideen explicitly says that she has it on her for when she finds Briggid. Considering that Lord Ring has absolutely no idea that Grandbell is about to see a coup, I doubt that he thought it was important for him to have Ichival with him.

Ok, maybe brainwashing her wasn't such a good idea...

• Why did Manfloy brainwash Julia instead of just killing her?
  • The thought of having Yuria and Celice kill each other was probably just hilarious to him. Yurius does ask the same thing, and even later curses Manfroy's lack of foresight if you use Yuria against him.

Cheating is way worse than murder

• How come everyone here is always complaining about Beowolf cheating on Lachesis but have no problem with him being willing to betray and kill his friend to join the good guys after the player gives him enough money? Isn't murdering your own friend for money much worse than possibly cheating on one person?
  • Money or not, switching sides and murdering the people whom you were fighting for just a minute ago is something dozens of other characters do as well. Whether you do it out of greed or out of belief, the result is the same.
  • Protagonist-Centered Morality? After all, it's ok as long as he betrays the bad guys and joins the good guys, even if the victim was his best buddy. Right? But when "betraying" the good guys, all bets are off.
  • "Murder"? Beowulf betrayed Macbeth because the greedy bastard was sending his thugs to rob and burn down the nearby villages. He tells his mercenary captain up-front that he's about ready to leave, and Voltz even tells him to feel free to switch sides if he gets a better offer. And it's pretty silly to complain about him "murdering" Voltz when, if the two come to blows, Beowulf says it's only happening because YOU ordered him to do it!

Hey, where'd my sword go?

• A minor thing, but...Sigurd was named after the mythological dragon-slaying hero, who is also known as Siegfried. So...why is his legendary weapon the Tyrfing? I mean, Siegfried's actual sword, the Balmung, does exist in this universe...
  • Who knows? Maybe they just thought those two names both sounded cool. I doubt they were really going for mythical accuracy, after all.
  • Almost none of the names are accurate to their mythological origins. Sigurd never fights any dragons aside from Thracia's wyvern-equivalents, Naoise doesn't marry Deirdre, Ethlyn doesn't give birth to Lugh, the Mystletainn isn't used to kill a god, Tyrfing doesn't drive its user berserk, Gungnir can't be thrown, Arthur isn't a king (unless his father is Lewyn), etc. The Fire Emblem pattern is to use western mythical names because they sound cool, not because the games are about retelling mythology.

Because no one likes someone for leaving someone else who cheated on them

• On the subject of Beowulf, I don't understand why he's The Scrappy. At all. Could anyone please clear this up?
  • I'm not completely sure on the topic myself, but most of it seems to stem from the translation of Beowulf and Lachesis' last conversation:
    Beowulf: "Lachesis, I've got a confession to make."
    Lachesis: "Hm?"
    Beowulf: "I've known your true feelings all along."
    Lachesis: "What...!?"
    Beowulf: "Take good care of yourself. It was mighty nice while it lasted."
    Lachesis: "Wait! Beowulf!"

  • It's completely canon that Lachesis had children with both Finn and Beowulf, but the text is too ambiguous to figure out. A lot of people think Beowulf was completely unjustified in leaving his lover (and baby son) and giving her no chance to explain herself, even if she had been cheating on him. Some think Lachesis wasn't even cheating on him at this point in the game, but became pregnant with Nanna between Seisen no Keifu and Thracia 776. Of course, there are also others who think Lachesis was a cheating whore who had a creepy crush on her brother. The hate stretches both ways.
    • Fin seems to be the only one involved who's not hated.
  • Because Slut-Shaming. The idea that a mercenary with a roving lifestyle or a woman who's just lost her brother and been exiled from her country might not adhere rigidly to monogamy is apparently too much for people to handle.

Spare the mothers

• What exactly happens to the female characters from Part 1 of Genealogy if they didn't marry? We never actually hear anything about whether or not they survive unless they marry, so are we supposed to assume they died at Belhalla with the rest of the army? This is especially noticeable with Tailto, whose abuse at Hilda's hands is replicated with her sister, Ethnia, with Tailto nowhere to be seen.
  • I assume with Ethnia and Tailto, they were both abused by Hilda and died, it's just that one isn't really relevant to the other's kids. Although actually, now that I think about it, Ethnia's kids (Amid and Linda) do reference that Tailto also died due to Hilda's abuse. It's Arthur and Teeny who ignore their aunt.
    • I didn't actually know that. I'd only played the game once, and I'd already married Tailto off, so when I read about the Ethnia thing I'd just assumed that she wasn't involved in that subplot. Thanks for clearing that up.
    • Correction: Amid and Linda don't reference that Tailto died due to Hilda's abuse, but that Ethnia joined Siglud because Tailto died in battle. (Of course, this becomes strange if Tailto lived to the end, but just wasn't married, which would mean that she died at Belhalla...)
  • With a few exceptions, we can probably assume that they met similar fates. Briggid will still be Taken for Granite as Eyvel before Leaf joins the army, Aideen still retires in Isaach to help raise the kids/substitutes. Ferry becomes Queen of Silesse whether she's married to Lewyn or not. Raquesis vanishes in the desert while looking only for her nephew instead of nephew and son. The ones whose fates if childless are still muddy are Ayra, who's probably dead, and Sylvia, who's only connected to her own children and not any of the predetermined ones.
  • What confuses me is how can the survivors escape getting meteored to death in a (presumably) strictly guarded public execution grounds or be enslaved/imprisoned/forcefully married to anyone involved in the coup. One would think that both Grannvale and the Loptyrian sect would go to every ends to crush every single one who opposed them. Most of them died, but the cause of deaths are mostly unrelated to the same event that killed Sigurd and most of the males involved in that specific massacre.

They're exactly the same...

• Why is Verdane acknowledged as a nation of barbarians, when there's almost nothing that makes them different from any other country? Let's see... everyone speaks the same language, which knocks out the original definition (people who don't speak Latin or Greek). They have castles, a monarchy, and an army. Yeah, the princes abuse their power, but that's not really any different from anyone else. There are fewer towns, but there aren't very many in other countries either. The only difference are that the monarchy doesn't have Holy Blood, and that the army is smaller, has no commanders other than the princes, and not made of knights.
  • Probably those exact reasons. A good chunk of the Holy Blood houses are lead by douchebags, so it's plausible that they would look down on a royal house that doesn't have that blessing. IIRC, the country is also very forested, which would give the impression of "uncivilized wilderness" and according to the FE Wiki, Verdane has a history of pushing at Grannvale's borders which would not endear them. Plus their forces are mostly axe-wielders (unrefined and brutal) and on foot (too poor for warhorses).

The clergy is a great place to meet new people

• Why would becoming a nun help Adean find Briggid? Wouldn't becoming a knight help Adean find Briggid faster, since she would be able to go out searching?
  • Possibly because a nun is less intimidating than a knight, possibly that a healer could get into little villages and other unrefined places without anyone getting suspicious of it. (Villagers might be happier to give full and detailed information to someone who's just healed them as opposed to someone on horseback with a sword.)

We had nothing better to do.

Why are The Artifact characters still in the castle in between chapters 2 and 3 of Genealogy? It's been a year since the last chapter. Adean had time to fetch the Yewfelle between chapters. So why are people like Dew and Beowolf still there? They don't owe any allegiance to anyone.

• Beowolf did offer his services to Sigurd in exchange for 10,000 gold. Plus, Eldigan's sister is still with them. Dew most likely stuck around since he figured he'd have more opportunities to steal if he hung around these nobles who were fighting other nobles. As to why Jamke, who has a kingdom of his own to take care of (since his father and brothers are now dead) is still with them, I have no idea.

She's just that good.

Why is Ishtar so effective? She doesn't seem older than Sigurd or Eldigan, and yet she's level 22 when you meet her. Sigurd fought a lot of battles because of the player, and the kings are strong because they had a lot of time to train. As nobles of Granvale and Major Blood holders, Sigurd and Ishtar should be around the same power level Julius is younger than Seliph, but he's Loptyr's human host and gets a bypass. This can really apply to any character who has no reason to be that strong.

• Probably some Gameplay and Story Segregation: in gameplay terms, you need to kill a lot of enemies in order to gain experience, so most player characters start at comparatively low levels, and bosses are at whatever level to provide the right challenge at that time in the game. If Ishtar had instead defected and joined Seliph's army in one of his early chapters, she'd doubtlessly have come at a much lower level.

Thank you for guiding us. And not eating our brains.

What was actually going on with Lewyn in the second generation? Is it actually him? Is it Forseti? Is he dead? Is it a geas? Could someone give an explanation?

• He's kind of both dead and possessed. He was killed at Balharra, but "resurrected" and possessed by Forseti—he can't live without him, and his personality differences are because he's possessed by a deity that is Above Good and Evil.

100 years and they're only just now mixing it up

At the start of Genealogy of the Holy War, there are only three people that we know of who have more than one type of Holy Blood: Arvis and Deirdre who inherited their mother's minor Loptyr blood in addition to their respective major Fala and Naga blood, and the newborn Altena, who inherited her mother's minor Baldur blood in addition to her father's major Noba blood. The next generation will almost certainly bring more children with more than one Holy Blood. My question is, why is this only happening now? Why didn't the descendants of the Twelve Crusaders not already start hooking up in earlier generations?

• It might be something of a purity thing. Royal families in Europe used to be massively inbred to keep the Royal line... royal. In other words, people wanted the bloodlines distinct and "pure" of the other ones and this stigma is only just staring to fade out when the game roles around.
  • But if that were true, then there would be a lot more Major Holy Blood users hanging around, because two Minors make a Major.
• Holy Blood doesn't always pass to the next generation: Chagall has no Holy Blood at all despite being a direct descendant of Hezul, Scipio didn't inherit his father's Minor Ulir Blood, Lewyn's uncles don't have any Forseti blood, and Ishtar got her father's Major Thrud Blood but not her mother's Minor Vala/Fjalar Blood. There are probably tons of people who are descended from the Crusaders, but lost the perks of such over the Holy Blood equivalent of genetic bad luck over the generations.

Forbidden from men

• Deirdre is forbidden from meeting men for fear that she will give birth to a kid with major Loptous blood. But the fact of her existence means that either she is the first one to be given this restriction, or people in her family just cannot avoid getting married despite sequestering themselves in the Spirit Forest for generations.
  • In the Oosawa manga, the elder of the group wasn't too happy to see her with Sigurd but accepted Deirdre's decision to leave. Perhaps she believed that it was Deirdre's destiny and she can't go against it, or that the other Loptous blood people had been extinguished after several generations of them being hunted down. (And indeed, Manfroy tells Arvis that the persecution against Loptr is still on, and that if people learned he had Loptous blood he'd be burned at the stake.)
  • Also it's likely that the former people of her lineage married persons that were from the Spirit Forest village and were guaranteed to not be Lopts. Manfroy took care to make sure that, for Julius to be born, two people with minor Loptous had kids. (Them being Deirdre and Arvis, obviously.) Deirdre's mom was a sort-of special case: Cigyun's hinted to have escaped from the Spirit Forest to see the outside world, which led to her marrying Viktor/having Arvis/being cheated on/cheating with Kurth/getting preggers with Deirdre/running back to the Forest when everything blew up in her face/giving birth to Deirdre and dying.
    • Indeed. The specific rule is that people with Loptous blood are forbidden to have more than one child to prevent people like Manfroy from trying to use them to make a child with major Loptous blood. Cigyun ended up giving birth to two children with minor Loptous blood. She presumably told the people in the forest that she had another child, but died before she could reveal who he was, hence the specific prohibition on Deirdre's part.

Ages

• How old are Azel and Arvis? Arvis is confirmed to be seven years older at the most, since he was seven when their father died. And then there's Deirdre.... Given the timeline... When Arvis was seven, his father Viktor committed suicide because he found out about Cigyun having an affair that resulted in Deirdre. Deirdre is eighteen at the start of the game. If Cigyun ran away right before or after Viktor committed suicide... then Azel would have to be older than Deirdre.
  • I think Azel and Deirdre are about the same age, give or take a few months.
  • Original poster back. Yeah, probably. That was a mistake on my part. I thought that Azel was about fourteen and Deirdre was about twenty.

Character survival

• In regards to the aftermath of Chapter 5, how did most of the female characters survive the Battle of Belhalla without being captured and enslaved by The Empire? They seem to have enough time to do their own thing in between the time skip, some survive to appear in the next game (Brigid), while others, like Lachesis, died sometime after the battle. Even then, the massive meteor strikes in a small setting should kill all of them already.
  • I know it sounds like a cop out, but keep in mind all that A) meteor has a pretty low hit rate, and B) the units surrounding everyone are mages with low defence. The army likely put up a fight to escape, but had to split up to avoid being caught. They never regrouped because they no longer had a leader to rally under.

Starting a war

• Is there explanation in any Word of God or tie-in about why Lewyn's uncles start a civil war in the particular way they do? It isn't a situation where an uncle got knocked out of succession by an unexpected baby, since their lack of Forseti blood means they wouldn't be in line for the throne according to Silesse's laws. And Rahna has been ruling as regent since the king's death, and she also lacks Forseti blood, so they could have moved against her at any point whether Prince Lewyn was in hiding or not. Wouldn't have been easier for them to rebel against her whenever they felt like it instead of waiting for Lewyn and his indisputable claim to return?
  • Rahna is noted to be very popular among Silesse’s people. It’s possible that that kept Lewyn’s uncles from rebelling for several years, but eventually the lack of a stable ruler (plus Lewyn’s departure) led to unrest amongst the people. Lewyn’s uncles could have used those years to sow discord among the people, possibly even arguing that Forseti blood was unnecessary to rule. Lewyn’s return may have been the spark that led to the civil war, with his uncles realizing that now that he’d returned, they needed to move fast if they wanted a chance to actually take the throne.