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* MagnificentBastard: Thrawn.
** Sometimes crosses over into MaryTzu.

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* MagnificentBastard: Thrawn.
** Sometimes crosses
Thrawn is as adept as tactician and master maniuplator as Palpatine was.
* MaryTzu: He's able to find weaknesses in the way his opponents think, by analizing their art, and he can come up with the perfect battle-strategy to defeat them. Some fans feel this is pushing his genius
over into MaryTzu.the edge.
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* HarsherInHindsight: Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri becomes this after OutboundFlight where he expresses some distaste for slavery.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri becomes this after OutboundFlight OutboundFlight, where he he, as a young officer, expresses some distaste for slavery.
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* HarsherInHindsight: Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri becomes this after [[Literature/OutboundFlight]] where he expresses some distaste for slavery.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri becomes this after [[Literature/OutboundFlight]] OutboundFlight where he expresses some distaste for slavery.
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* HarsherInHindsight: Thrawn's treatment of the Noghri becomes this after [[Literature/OutboundFlight]] where he expresses some distaste for slavery.
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Natter


* MaryTzu: Thrawn was {{flanderiz|ation}}ed into this in later EU works, which led to Zahn delivering a TakeThat in the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology that he was never ''that'' good. Zahn himself played with the trope in the original trilogy, as Thrawn deliberately nurtured an image of being this trope so that his enemies would lose hope, thinking ''everything'' was part of a XanatosGambit. The fear of Thrawn was often as much of a deciding factor in his victories as Thrawn himself.
** Thrawn wasn't flanderised into a Mary Tzu. He was an extreme example of Mary Tzu right from his first appearance. Even in the original Thrawn trilogy, his omniscience is difficult to swallow. There is really little justification for most of the conclusions he reaches. Even Zahn fails to depict him as a convincing military genius, and instead he comes across as a consistently lucky guesser.
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** Is Thrawn's analysis of art really how he comes to his conclusions or is it simply the myth of his own invincibility that he has created?
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*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette (you've seen one; Princess Leia was escaping in one at the start of the original ''Star Wars)'' had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.

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*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette (you've seen one; Princess Leia was escaping in one at the start of the original ''Star Wars)'' had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for after a type of small AgeOfSail [[WoodenShipsAndIronMen Age of Sail]] warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.
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*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.

to:

*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette (you've seen one; Princess Leia was escaping in one at the start of the original ''Star Wars)'' had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Thrawn's continued use of [[spoiler: the Noghri, Mara Jade, Ferrier, and C'baoth,]] despite it being painfully obvious they can and will disrupt his plans a case of him holding the IdiotBall, or an indication of how unwilling he is to eliminate potentially useful people no matter how unlikely it is that they can be incorporated into his plans?
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*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.

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*** A reference to a Corellian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.factor.
* RootingForTheEmpire: Admit it, if you read these books, you liked it when Thrawn kept winning.
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Thrawn being a Mary Tzu wasn\'t flanderization.

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** Thrawn wasn't flanderised into a Mary Tzu. He was an extreme example of Mary Tzu right from his first appearance. Even in the original Thrawn trilogy, his omniscience is difficult to swallow. There is really little justification for most of the conclusions he reaches. Even Zahn fails to depict him as a convincing military genius, and instead he comes across as a consistently lucky guesser.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MaryTzu: Thrawn was {{flanderiz|ation}}ed into this in later EU works, which led to Zahn delivering a TakeThat in the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology that he was never ''that'' good.

to:

* MaryTzu: Thrawn was {{flanderiz|ation}}ed into this in later EU works, which led to Zahn delivering a TakeThat in the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology that he was never ''that'' good. Zahn himself played with the trope in the original trilogy, as Thrawn deliberately nurtured an image of being this trope so that his enemies would lose hope, thinking ''everything'' was part of a XanatosGambit. The fear of Thrawn was often as much of a deciding factor in his victories as Thrawn himself.
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* CompleteMonster: Joruus C'baoth.
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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if ''Chewie'' was vocally challenged all this time, which he finds very amusing.
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None

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* MaryTzu: Thrawn was {{flanderiz|ation}}ed into this in later EU works, which led to Zahn delivering a TakeThat in the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology that he was never ''that'' good.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Alas Poor Villain is being moved back to Main. Examples that don\'t describe the moment or are purely editor opinion are being deleted.


* AlasPoorVillain: ''"But... it was so artistically done."''
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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if ''Chewie'' was vocally challenged all this time.

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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if ''Chewie'' was vocally challenged all this time.time, which he finds very amusing.



* HilariousInHindsight: Luuke being an insane clone of Luke Skywalker becones especially ironic when one remembers that Luke Skywalker's film actor, MarkHamill, ends up voicing SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, who is an incredible insane supervillain.

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* HilariousInHindsight: Luuke being an insane clone of Luke Skywalker becones especially ironic when one remembers that Luke Skywalker's film actor, MarkHamill, ends up voicing SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, who is an incredible incredibly insane supervillain.



** In the sidebar notes of the 20th Anniversary Edition, Zahn mentions a few cases where fans accused him of referencing stuff current culture, not realizing that the references were older.

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** In the sidebar notes of the 20th Anniversary Edition, Zahn mentions a few cases where fans accused him of referencing stuff from current culture, not realizing that the references were older.
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* EnsembleDarkhorse: The books produced at least three extremely popular characters - Thrawn, Mara and Talon Karrde, but the most surprising success story might be the relatively minor character of Pellaeon who would go on to much greater things.

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: EnsembleDarkHorse: The books produced at least three extremely popular characters - Thrawn, Mara and Talon Karrde, but the most surprising success story might be the relatively minor character of Pellaeon who would go on to much greater things.



* HilariousInHindsight: Luuke being an insane clone of Luke Skywalker becones especially ironic when one remembers that Luke Skywalker's film actor, MarkHamill, ends up voicing TheJoker, who is an incredible insane supervillain.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Luuke being an insane clone of Luke Skywalker becones especially ironic when one remembers that Luke Skywalker's film actor, MarkHamill, ends up voicing TheJoker, SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, who is an incredible insane supervillain.
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None


** What Joruus C'baoth [[MindRape did]] to that one Imperial in ''TheThrawnTrilogy''. We don't see it happening, but for a little while after it's over the Imperial is the viewpoint character, and he's basically nothing more than an extension of C'baoth's will. A few pages later and Captain Pellaeon sees a report that the Imperial who was escorting C'baoth just... died a few hours after being separated from the mad Jedi. Worse, Covell had already been the viewpoint character once before, and the contrast between the highly competent DeadpanSnarker that he was and the [[TheRenfield worshipful puppet]] he was {{MindRape}}d into was utterly horrifying.

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** What Joruus C'baoth [[MindRape did]] to that one Imperial in ''TheThrawnTrilogy''. We don't see it happening, but for a little while after it's over the Imperial is the viewpoint character, and he's basically nothing more than an extension of C'baoth's will. A few pages later and Captain Pellaeon sees a report that the Imperial who was escorting C'baoth just... died a few hours after being separated from the mad Jedi. Worse, Covell had already been the viewpoint character once before, and the contrast between the highly competent DeadpanSnarker that he was and the [[TheRenfield [[SycophanticServant worshipful puppet]] he was {{MindRape}}d into was utterly horrifying.
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Moved from the general Lit NF page.

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** What Joruus C'baoth [[MindRape did]] to that one Imperial in ''TheThrawnTrilogy''. We don't see it happening, but for a little while after it's over the Imperial is the viewpoint character, and he's basically nothing more than an extension of C'baoth's will. A few pages later and Captain Pellaeon sees a report that the Imperial who was escorting C'baoth just... died a few hours after being separated from the mad Jedi. Worse, Covell had already been the viewpoint character once before, and the contrast between the highly competent DeadpanSnarker that he was and the [[TheRenfield worshipful puppet]] he was {{MindRape}}d into was utterly horrifying.
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Moved from the general Lit NF page.

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* NightmareFuel: Probably an AdultFear more than anything else, but one of the plots in ''Heir to the Empire'' has Leia pursued by Thrawn's Noghri commandos. Thanks to IndyPloy after IndyPloy she escapes them each time, but no matter where she runs and what tricks she and her family pull to throw them off, they find her. She's not safe anywhere. And she's pregnant. [[AffablyEvil Thrawn might be Affably Imperial, but he wants to take her children away]].
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** Sometimes crosses over into MaryTzu.
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A few modifications.


* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if Chewie was just mentally challenged all this time.

to:

* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if Chewie ''Chewie'' was just mentally vocally challenged all this time.



*** A reference to a Correllian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.

to:

*** A reference to a Correllian Corellian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Some complained of him ripping off StarTrek when mentioning the 'borg implant' that Lando's assistant had, but 'borg' is just a abbreviation of cyborg, a term that had been around for many years before.

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*** Some complained of him ripping off StarTrek Franchise/StarTrek when mentioning the 'borg implant' that Lando's assistant had, but 'borg' is just a abbreviation of cyborg, a term that had been around for many years before.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a huma...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if Chewie was just mentally challenged all this time.

to:

* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a huma...human...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if Chewie was just mentally challenged all this time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CrowningMomentOfFunny: In ''Heir to the Empire'', Leia goes to Kashyyyk and is greeted by a Wookiee who has a speech impediment that allows him to speak like a huma...but she doesn't know about the speech impediment when he first opens his mouth and begins to speak perfect English. Since she's only ever met one Wookiee before this, there's a brief moment when she wonders if Chewie was just mentally challenged all this time.
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Mary Tzu has no examples. Either on that page or as a trope.


* MaryTzu: Thrawn could determine the proper techniques and maneuvers to use against an enemy commander just by studying the artwork of their species. Thrawn may have been an all around awesome and enjoyable character, but this pushes beyond the believable.
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None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Luuke being an insane clone of Luke Skywalker becones especially ironic when one remembers that Luke Skywalker's film actor, MarkHamill, ends up voicing TheJoker, who is an incredible insane supervillain.

Added: 764

Changed: 184

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* MagnificentBastard: Thrawn, who was actually the picture on that page for a while.

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* MagnificentBastard: Thrawn, who was actually the picture on that page for a while.Thrawn.



* OlderThanTheyThink: Zahn used the Star Wars [[TabletopGames role-playing game]] as a mine of source material, apparently on the advice of Lucasfilm.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: OlderThanTheyThink:
**
Zahn used the Star Wars [[TabletopGames role-playing game]] as a mine of source material, apparently on the advice of Lucasfilm.Lucasfilm.
** In the sidebar notes of the 20th Anniversary Edition, Zahn mentions a few cases where fans accused him of referencing stuff current culture, not realizing that the references were older.
*** Some complained of him ripping off StarTrek when mentioning the 'borg implant' that Lando's assistant had, but 'borg' is just a abbreviation of cyborg, a term that had been around for many years before.
*** A reference to a Correllian Corvette had some claiming he named it for the car, not realizing the car had been named for a type of small AgeOfSail warship. The fact that the name for the ship predated Zahn's writing also was a factor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* MaryTzu: Thrawn could determine the proper techniques and maneuvers to use against an enemy commander just by studying the artwork of their species. Thrawn may have been an all around awesome and enjoyable character, but this pushes beyond the believable.

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