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on second thought, this is almost certain to start arguments
Changed line(s) 195,197 (click to see context) from:
* StrawmanHasAPoint:
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty clear points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
** Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty clear points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
** Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint:
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty clear points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
**StrawmanHasAPoint: Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem proble is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty clear points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
**
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Changed line(s) 196 (click to see context) from:
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty reasonable points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate for no reason, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
to:
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty reasonable clear points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate for no reason, Gate, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
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None
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* ArtistDisillusionment: Not total disillusionment, but interactions between the Giant and his fans can be rather surly, especially if he's being forced to explain himself to fans regarding plot holes, alignment concerns, and the creepy worship of certain characters, like Miko. Even things that might bear discussion get rather blunt shutdowns from the author.
to:
* ArtistDisillusionment: Not total disillusionment, but interactions between the Giant and his fans can be rather surly, especially if he's being forced to explain himself to fans regarding plot holes, alignment concerns, and the creepy worship of certain characters, like Miko.characters. Even things that might bear discussion get rather blunt shutdowns from the author.
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
** Miko is a... polarizing character to say the least. Fans of the comic generally either love Miko or hate her. They started arguing about her back after being revealed at comic #200, and it's now over seven hundred strips later -- [[spoiler:and she's been dead since #464]] -- and no end in sight. (The author is not entirely happy about this.) And then there's those who TakeAThirdOption and [[LoveToHate love her as a character because they dislike her so much.]]
** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily TheChessmaster, and is more of a high-functioning / extremely lucky BigBadWannabe. Specifically the Giant's claim that [[UnreliableExpositor we only had Tarquin's word]] for [[MilesGloriosus how awesome Tarquin was]] and that he hoped GenreSavvy fans would have picked up on this. For some, this was a welcome bit of canon and substantiated the implications they perceived that he was WrongGenreSavvy, whereas others appreciated it because they viewed him as a borderline Villain Sue who needed to be knocked down a peg. Still others view this as spoiling one of their favorite villains, and claim it makes no sense with what Tarquin actually achieves in-story, citing how various unbiased characters have commented on how powerful and dangerous he is (Geoff and Ian mention how he took over a good chunk of the continent in less than a year through sheer strategic prowess, and was only defeated by a federation of '''''twenty-six enemy nations'''''), the successful long-con on the Western Continent was his idea (unless that was a result of UnreliableExpositor too), and his demonstrable battle prowess against the Order. Another minor split along these lines is whether or not his tendency to adhere to story tropes means he's a strategic genius on a meta level, as he really is in a story, or whether it means he's severely hampered for when the story doesn't go the way he thinks it will, as the plot has outright defied several of these tropes in the past.
** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily TheChessmaster, and is more of a high-functioning / extremely lucky BigBadWannabe. Specifically the Giant's claim that [[UnreliableExpositor we only had Tarquin's word]] for [[MilesGloriosus how awesome Tarquin was]] and that he hoped GenreSavvy fans would have picked up on this. For some, this was a welcome bit of canon and substantiated the implications they perceived that he was WrongGenreSavvy, whereas others appreciated it because they viewed him as a borderline Villain Sue who needed to be knocked down a peg. Still others view this as spoiling one of their favorite villains, and claim it makes no sense with what Tarquin actually achieves in-story, citing how various unbiased characters have commented on how powerful and dangerous he is (Geoff and Ian mention how he took over a good chunk of the continent in less than a year through sheer strategic prowess, and was only defeated by a federation of '''''twenty-six enemy nations'''''), the successful long-con on the Western Continent was his idea (unless that was a result of UnreliableExpositor too), and his demonstrable battle prowess against the Order. Another minor split along these lines is whether or not his tendency to adhere to story tropes means he's a strategic genius on a meta level, as he really is in a story, or whether it means he's severely hampered for when the story doesn't go the way he thinks it will, as the plot has outright defied several of these tropes in the past.
to:
** Miko is a... polarizing character to say the least. Fans of the comic generally either love Miko or hate her. They started arguing about her back after being revealed at comic #200, and it's now over seven hundred strips later -- [[spoiler:and she's been dead since #464]] -- and no end in sight. (The author is not entirely happy about this.) And then Even among people who love her, there's those still a very strong divide between people who TakeAThirdOption and [[LoveToHate love her as a character because they dislike see her so much.]]
as a sympathetic-but-wrong TragicHero, people who LoveToHate her (something between these two seems to have been the intended response), and people who love her and see her as unduly maligned by the narrative, at least in her early appearances.
** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily TheChessmaster, and is more of a high-functioning/ and extremely lucky BigBadWannabe. Specifically the Giant's claim that [[UnreliableExpositor we only had Tarquin's word]] for [[MilesGloriosus how awesome Tarquin was]] and that he hoped GenreSavvy fans would have picked up on this. For some, this was a welcome bit of canon and substantiated the implications they perceived that he was WrongGenreSavvy, whereas others appreciated it because they viewed him as a borderline Villain Sue who needed to be knocked down a peg. Still others view this as spoiling one of their favorite villains, and claim it makes no sense with what Tarquin actually achieves in-story, citing how various unbiased characters have commented on how powerful and dangerous he is (Geoff and Ian mention how he took over a good chunk of the continent in less than a year through sheer strategic prowess, and was only defeated by a federation of '''''twenty-six ''twenty-six enemy nations'''''), nations''), the successful long-con on the Western Continent was his idea (unless that was a result of UnreliableExpositor too), and his demonstrable battle prowess against the Order. Another minor split along these lines is whether or not his tendency to adhere to story tropes means he's a strategic genius on a meta level, as he really is in a story, or whether it means he's severely hampered for when the story doesn't go the way he thinks it will, as the plot has outright defied several of these tropes in the past.
** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily TheChessmaster, and is more of a high-functioning
Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
** In Book 6, Bandana and Andi, the acting captain and the chief engineer of the ''Mechane'', both of whom are intensely polarizing characters. Andi (as well as some of the rest of the crew) don't take to Bandana's leadership well. Some readers insist that Bandana is reckless, incompetent, and egotistical, getting the ship into increasingly dangerous situations without adequately preparing for them, and trusting her crew to keep saving her bacon even as everything crumbles around her, and that Andi is the OnlySaneMan desperately trying to take control of a bad situation to get the ship to safety. Others argue that Bandana is a skilled and capable captain, and Andi is a petty, egomaniac lunatic who seized the ship out of sheer jealous rage and then immediately delved into CommanderContrarian, proving why she shouldn't be in charge of the ship like she desires. And then, there are those who TakeAThirdOption and think neither woman has the talent to be a captain. Still others think that Julio Scoundrél must have had good reason to promote Bandana as he did, and that her eventual performance proved him out.
to:
** In Book 6, Bandana and Andi, the acting captain and the chief engineer of the ''Mechane'', both of whom are intensely polarizing characters. Andi (as well as some of the rest of the crew) don't take to Bandana's leadership well. Some readers insist that Bandana is reckless, incompetent, and egotistical, getting the ship into increasingly dangerous situations without adequately preparing for them, and trusting her crew to keep saving her bacon even as everything crumbles around her, and that Andi is the OnlySaneMan desperately trying to take control of a bad situation to get the ship to safety. Others argue that Bandana is a skilled and capable captain, and Andi is a petty, egomaniac lunatic who seized the ship out of sheer jealous rage and then immediately delved into CommanderContrarian, proving why she shouldn't be in charge of the ship like she desires. And then, there are those who TakeAThirdOption and think neither woman has the talent to be a captain. Still others think that Julio Scoundrél must have had good reason to promote Bandana as he did, and that her eventual performance proved him out. A major point that kept the debate dragging out was the ArcFatigue of the sequence in the series where they are the most prominent.
Changed line(s) 195 (click to see context) from:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: StrawmanHasAPoint:
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty reasonable points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate for no reason, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
** Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
** This is much of what made Miko such a contentious character in her early days. Miko was written as extremely disdainful and distrustful of the Order, which was meant to establish her as an unpleasant martinet, albeit one who was still more or less Good. The thing was, at the point in the comic where Miko was introduced, she had a lot of valid reasons--sometimes just from her perspective, sometimes objectively true--to distrust the Order. Meanwhile, the Order, being early in their CharacterDevelopment, very frequently dipped into UnscrupulousHero territory or worse (even aside from Belkar), and half their members openly hated her from the start, meaning they didn't have much of a high ground over her apart from being the protagonists. Because of this, while Miko was written as unreasonable, she was also the only character advocating some pretty reasonable points (the Order blew up Dorukan's Gate for no reason, Belkar is an unrepentant murderer) that the Order often dismissed for no better reason than that she was kind of a jerk about them. Notably, in the next major story dealing with her conflicts with the Order, Burlew pulled Hinjo to the fore, implicitly to show that Miko's attitude wasn't the only way to see those points realized, and also put her through no small amount of SanitySlippage.
** Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
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Changed line(s) 201 (click to see context) from:
* UnintentionallySympathetic: Rich Burlew himself acknowledged this turned out to be a problem with Crystal after Haley killed her in ''Don't Split the Party'', owing to a very inopportune choice of a DeletedScene: that being, the miniarc showing Haley and the Thieves Guild raiding Grubwiggler's home to retrieve Roy. Said miniarc was cut (being restored in the collected edition) due to the fact that it would have broken up a rather crucial sequence (that being, Vaarsuvius's rampage), but it featured scenes of Crystal killing Grubwiggler after he had surrendered for no reason, deliberately setting off a trap so that it would blow up in Haley's face, and telling Haley outright that she still planned to kill her at some point in the future. With those scenes removed, it seemed like Haley had murdered Crystal in cold blood solely to not have to pay Guild dues, and that the worst thing Crystal was guilty of was being an idiot.
to:
* UnintentionallySympathetic: Rich Burlew himself acknowledged this turned out to be a problem with Crystal after Haley killed her in ''Don't Split the Party'', owing to a very inopportune choice of a DeletedScene: that being, the miniarc mini-arc showing Haley and the Thieves Guild raiding Grubwiggler's home to retrieve Roy. Said miniarc mini-arc was cut (being restored in the collected edition) due to the fact that it would have broken up a rather crucial sequence (that being, Vaarsuvius's rampage), but it featured scenes of Crystal killing Grubwiggler after he had surrendered for no reason, deliberately setting off a trap so that it would blow up in Haley's face, and telling Haley outright that she still planned to kill her at some point in the future. With those scenes removed, it seemed like Haley had murdered Crystal in cold blood solely to not have to pay Guild dues, and that the worst thing Crystal was guilty of was being an idiot.
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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Rich Burlew himself acknowledged this turned out to be a problem with Crystal after Haley killed her in ''Don't Split the Party'', owing to a very inopportune choice of a DeletedScene: that being, the miniarc showing Haley and the Thieves Guild raiding Grubwiggler's home to retrieve Roy. Said miniarc was cut (being restored in the collected edition) due to the fact that it would have broken up a rather crucial sequence (that being, Vaarsuvius's rampage), but it featured scenes of Crystal killing Grubwiggler after he had surrendered for no reason, deliberately setting off a trap so that it would blow up in Haley's face, and telling Haley outright that she still planned to kill her at some point in the future. With those scenes removed, it seemed like Haley had murdered Crystal in cold blood solely to not have to pay Guild dues, and that the worst thing Crystal was guilty of was being an idiot.
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Changed line(s) 179,181 (click to see context) from:
* TheScrappy:
** Roy's LoveInterest Celia was quite popular at first being a funny and competent lawyer in the setting and a pretty neat romantic foil to Roy. When she was made into a major character many soured on her because of her sudden reversal to StupidGood tendencies. WordOfGod was that he tried to pit Celia's Naive yet good nature against Haley and Belkar's more pragmatic and darker natures to try and show a contrast in ideals, something the comic has done many times before. Unfortunately nearly all of Celia's points just ended up failing and a number of fans who liked her smarter moments felt she fell hard into the "naive" category.
** Girard Draketooth. All the flashbacks and visions of him so far have shown him as acerbic and arrogant, and his main contribution to the ongoing plot sabotages the heroes' attempt to save the world as part of a personal revenge scheme to get back at someone for something that never even ended up happening.
** Roy's LoveInterest Celia was quite popular at first being a funny and competent lawyer in the setting and a pretty neat romantic foil to Roy. When she was made into a major character many soured on her because of her sudden reversal to StupidGood tendencies. WordOfGod was that he tried to pit Celia's Naive yet good nature against Haley and Belkar's more pragmatic and darker natures to try and show a contrast in ideals, something the comic has done many times before. Unfortunately nearly all of Celia's points just ended up failing and a number of fans who liked her smarter moments felt she fell hard into the "naive" category.
** Girard Draketooth. All the flashbacks and visions of him so far have shown him as acerbic and arrogant, and his main contribution to the ongoing plot sabotages the heroes' attempt to save the world as part of a personal revenge scheme to get back at someone for something that never even ended up happening.
to:
* TheScrappy:
**TheScrappy: Roy's LoveInterest Celia was quite popular at first being a funny and competent lawyer in the setting and a pretty neat romantic foil to Roy. When she was made into a major character many soured on her because of her sudden reversal to StupidGood tendencies. WordOfGod was that he tried to pit Celia's Naive yet good nature against Haley and Belkar's more pragmatic and darker natures to try and show a contrast in ideals, something the comic has done many times before. Unfortunately nearly all of Celia's points just ended up failing and a number of fans who liked her smarter moments felt she fell hard into the "naive" category.
** Girard Draketooth. All the flashbacks and visions of him so far have shown him as acerbic and arrogant, and his main contribution to the ongoing plot sabotages the heroes' attempt to save the world as part of a personal revenge scheme to get back at someone for something that never even ended up happening.category.
**
** Girard Draketooth. All the flashbacks and visions of him so far have shown him as acerbic and arrogant, and his main contribution to the ongoing plot sabotages the heroes' attempt to save the world as part of a personal revenge scheme to get back at someone for something that never even ended up happening.
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the issue isn't that Kubota didn't deserve it, it's that V murdered him on sight purely to move the plot along, without knowing anything about what he'd been up to
Deleted line(s) 52 (click to see context) :
* DesignatedEvil: V [[spoiler:murdering Kubota]] is treated in story as their MoralEventHorizon and the first sign that their obsession with reuniting with the other members of the Order and perfecting their magic to avoid what happened in Azure City is starting to lead them down a dark path. [[spoiler:But considering what an unrepentantly vile SmugSnake Kubota had been up to this point (to the point that, mere moments before his death, he was ''gloating'' to Elan about how he planned to rig his trial in his favor), many believed that V made the right call and Elan being so angry over it is forced.]]
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* UnfortunateCharacterDesign: Those [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1139.html markers]] representing [[spoiler:worlds devoured by the Snarl]] lose a bit of their emotional heft when you realize they look a lot like flared buttplugs.
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Changed line(s) 106 (click to see context) from:
** In ''[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickOnTheOriginOfPCs On the Origin of PCs]]'', one of the party members Roy tries to recruit is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. As it turns out, one of their foes does turn out to be a vampire... and he ends up being slain by another blond.
to:
** In ''[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickOnTheOriginOfPCs On the Origin of PCs]]'', one of the party members Roy tries to recruit is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. As it turns out, one of their foes does turn out to be a vampire... and he ends up being slain by another blond.blonde.
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Changed line(s) 110 (click to see context) from:
** In [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html "Second Chance"]], Xykon monologues to Vaarsuvius about the nature of power, the point he makes being that spells don't equal power, "[[ShapedLikeItself Power equals power]]." The date on that strip is 2009; three years later, the ''Series/GameOfThrones'' episode "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E1TheNorthRemembers The North Remembers]]" has Cersei Lannister "teaching" Petyr Baelish the very same lesson, verbatim (except with "knowledge is power" instead of "spells equal power").
to:
** In [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html "Second Chance"]], Xykon monologues to Vaarsuvius about the nature of power, the point he makes being that spells don't equal power, "[[ShapedLikeItself Power equals power]]." The date on that strip is 2009; three years later, the ''Series/GameOfThrones'' episode "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E1TheNorthRemembers The North Remembers]]" has Cersei Lannister "teaching" Petyr Baelish the very same lesson, verbatim (except almost verbatim, except with "power is power" instead of "power equals power" (and "knowledge is power" instead of "spells equal power").
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Changed line(s) 106 (click to see context) from:
** In ''On the Origin of [=PCs=]'', one of the party members he tries to recruit is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. As it turns out, one of their foes does turn out to be a vampire... and he ends up being slain by another blond.
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** In ''On ''[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickOnTheOriginOfPCs On the Origin of [=PCs=]'', PCs]]'', one of the party members he Roy tries to recruit is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. As it turns out, one of their foes does turn out to be a vampire... and he ends up being slain by another blond.
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** In [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html "Stopping for Direction"]], Belkar's [[JerkassHasAPoint observation]] that people who spend all their time cooped up in a hideout in the desert would probably head to a brothel first chance they get becomes even ''more'' [[DumbassHasAPoint spot-on]] when we learn that [[spoiler:everyone who guarded Girard's Gate was family.]]
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** In [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html "Second Chance"]], Xykon monologues to Vaarsuvius about the nature of power, the point he makes being that spells don't equal power, "[[ShapedLikeItself Power equals power]]." The date on that strip is 2009; three years later, the ''Series/GameOfThrones'' episode "[[Recap/GameOfThronesS2E1TheNorthRemembers The North Remembers]]" has Cersei Lannister "teaching" Petyr Baelish the very same lesson, verbatim (except with "knowledge is power" instead of "spells equal power").
** In [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html "Stopping for Direction"]], Belkar's [[JerkassHasAPoint observation]] that people who spend all their time cooped up in a hideout in the desert would probably head to a brothel first chance they get becomes even ''more'' [[DumbassHasAPoint spot-on]] when we learn that [[spoiler:everyone who guarded Girard's Gate wasfamily.]]family]].
** In [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html "Stopping for Direction"]], Belkar's [[JerkassHasAPoint observation]] that people who spend all their time cooped up in a hideout in the desert would probably head to a brothel first chance they get becomes even ''more'' [[DumbassHasAPoint spot-on]] when we learn that [[spoiler:everyone who guarded Girard's Gate was
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** Loki caps off his speech to the Norse Pantheon with "Vote Loki 2016". This is now the title of an [[Comicbook/VoteLoki actual comic]] starring the Marvel version of Loki.
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** Loki caps off his speech to the Norse Pantheon with "Vote Loki 2016". This is now the title of an [[Comicbook/VoteLoki [[ComicBook/VoteLoki actual comic]] starring the Marvel Franchise/{{Marvel|Universe}} version of Loki.
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Changed line(s) 88 (click to see context) from:
** A brief gag in [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html the strip (properly) introducing the Linear Guild]] has Nale claims that all (Player Character) Drow are ChaoticGood Rebels, [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch trying to throw off the reputation of their evil kin]]. In the Fifth Edition, [[https://dnd.wizards.com/news/diversity-and-dnd WOTC would eventually make the Drow similarly more varied in alignment]], which would be HilariousInHindsight if not [[UsefulNotes/BlackLivesMatterMovement for the reason behind the change]].
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** A brief gag in [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html the strip (properly) introducing the Linear Guild]] has Nale claims that all (Player Character) Drow are ChaoticGood "ChaoticGood" Rebels, [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch trying to throw off the reputation of their evil kin]]. In the Fifth Edition, [[https://dnd.wizards.com/news/diversity-and-dnd WOTC would eventually make the Drow similarly more varied in alignment]], which would be HilariousInHindsight if not [[UsefulNotes/BlackLivesMatterMovement for the reason behind the change]].
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I just thought of this. The idea of all Drow being Chaotic Good was played as a joke (and revealed to be untrue for Zz'driti); however, a similar change to the Drow/dark elf race did occur in actual DND many years later, which was partially due to the effects of George Floyd Protest
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** A brief gag in [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html the strip (properly) introducing the Linear Guild]] has Nale claims that all (Player Character) Drow are ChaoticGood Rebels, [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch trying to throw off the reputation of their evil kin]]. In the Fifth Edition, [[https://dnd.wizards.com/news/diversity-and-dnd WOTC would eventually make the Drow similarly more varied in alignment]], which would be HilariousInHindsight if not [[UsefulNotes/BlackLivesMatterMovement for the reason behind the change]].
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Removed two separate entries complaining about strip 1068 in the Frost Giants arc being Anvilicious. It really isn't — the "feminist rant" lasts for half a page and is clearly a joke.
Deleted line(s) 18 (click to see context) :
* {{Anvilicious}}: Strip #[[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1068.html 1068]] has a female frost giant claiming she was [[IAmNotLeftHanded holding back her true strength]] in the presence of some male giants, and could cut loose now those giants were dead. A lot of people on the forum thought that the delivery was ham-fisted, unnecessary, and downright insulting (instead of a justification for ConservationOfNinjutsu).
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* TrappedByMountainLions: The frost giants arc, which took about a year of time to complete. It amounted to a glorified random encounter of some frost giants in a mountain pass. Not only was this a distraction from the significantly more important end of the world plot, the characterization focused solely on the personalities and struggles of bit characters introduced in the same chapter, including Thrym's crush on Hel and the petty power struggles between Andi and Bandana. In addition, it had an {{Anvilicious}} diatribe about women in the workplace that was ham-fistedly thrown in, and absolutely no real humor or even character development.
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* TrappedByMountainLions: The frost giants arc, which took about a year of time to complete. It amounted to a glorified random encounter of some frost giants in a mountain pass. Not only was this a distraction from the significantly more important end of the world plot, the characterization focused solely on the personalities and struggles of bit characters introduced in the same chapter, including Thrym's crush on Hel and the petty power struggles between Andi and Bandana. In addition, it had an {{Anvilicious}} diatribe about women in the workplace that was ham-fistedly thrown in, and absolutely no real humor or even character development.
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* CompleteMonster: The silly-seeming but utterly ruthless [[BigBad Xykon]] plans to unleash the destructive Snarl to obliterate his enemies, uncaring of warnings that it is a beast with the potential to destroy the world. Sacking Azure City to claim their gate which will help him control the Snarl, Xykon gleefully uses a Symbol of Insanity to cause their entire guard to kill each other, deeming it to be the [[ForTheEvulz most fun way]] to wipe them out. In [[[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickStartOfDarkness Start of Darkness]] his backstory]], when a then-child Xykon's dog dies and he resurrects it, he happily watches it devour a bird, showing he was twisted [[EnfantTerrible from the start]]. As a teenager, Xykon kills and zombifies anyone who bothers him in any way, including a man offering to train him as a sorcerer and [[SelfMadeOrphan his own parents]] for having let the man into their house at all. In the present, now a SorcerousOverlord, Xykon carries out horrific acts solely for his own amusement and abuses his goblin henchmen to the point one tries to assassinate him. Allowing the brother of his would-be assailant to kill his brother, Xykon binds him to his service, then mocks him and forces him to bring his brother back as a zombie. Trapping the souls of two mages within a gem where they are doomed to [[AndIMustScream suffer for eternity]], Xykon is a PsychopathicManchild of a ruler devoted only to hurting others to entertain himself.
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* CompleteMonster: The silly-seeming but utterly ruthless [[BigBad Xykon]] plans to unleash the destructive Snarl to obliterate his enemies, uncaring of warnings that it is a beast with the potential to destroy the world. Sacking Azure City to claim their gate which will help him control the Snarl, Xykon gleefully uses a Symbol of Insanity to cause their entire guard to kill each other, deeming it to be the [[ForTheEvulz most fun way]] to wipe them out. In [[[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickStartOfDarkness Start of Darkness]] [[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickStartOfDarkness his backstory]], when a then-child Xykon's dog dies and he resurrects it, he happily watches it devour a bird, showing he was twisted [[EnfantTerrible from the start]]. As a teenager, Xykon kills and zombifies anyone who bothers him in any way, including a man offering to train him as a sorcerer and [[SelfMadeOrphan his own parents]] for having let the man into their house at all. In the present, now a SorcerousOverlord, Xykon carries out horrific acts solely for his own amusement and abuses his goblin henchmen to the point one tries to assassinate him. Allowing the brother of his would-be assailant to kill his brother, Xykon binds him to his service, then mocks him and forces him to bring his brother back as a zombie. Trapping the souls of two mages within a gem where they are doomed to [[AndIMustScream suffer for eternity]], Xykon is a PsychopathicManchild of a ruler devoted only to hurting others to entertain himself.
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* UglyCute: [[spoiler:Sunny is absolutely adorable for a beholder.]]
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* UglyCute: [[spoiler:Sunny is absolutely adorable for a beholder. [[https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1283.html Baby Sunny]] was even cuter.]]
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There's really no "just" when it comes to eternity.
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* StrawmanHasAPoint: Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel just to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
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* StrawmanHasAPoint: Eugene arguing that the dwarves should throw themselves into mass suicidal charges against dragons or even each other seems to be a jab at the commenters that suggested that very thing. Except the problem is that many dwarves have been shown to do that exact thing. They are so dedicated to dying honorably that even one member of Durkon's family was seriously considering picking a fight with one of his elderly friends "so that he would at least die with an axe in his hands". Yes, dwarves are willing to kill their friends in a duel just to ensure that they go to Valhalla. While a lot of people in and out of universe argue that the dwarves have a raw deal, it doesn't change the fact that they HAVE to die honorably and they've long ago accepted that and have it culturally ingrained. Thor can only do so much to argue their souls away from Hel who vents all her frustrations out on her captured souls.
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Changed line(s) 36 (click to see context) from:
* CompleteMonster: The silly-seeming but utterly ruthless [[BigBad Xykon]] plans to unleash the destructive Snarl to obliterate his enemies, uncaring of warnings that it is a beast with the potential to destroy the world. Sacking Azure City to claim their gate which will help him control the Snarl, Xykon gleefully uses a Symbol of Insanity to cause their entire guard to kill each other, deeming it to be the [[ForTheEvulz most fun way]] to wipe them out. In [[Recap/StartOfDarkness his backstory]], when a then-child Xykon's dog dies and he resurrects it, he happily watches it devour a bird, showing he was twisted [[EnfantTerrible from the start]]. As a teenager, Xykon kills and zombifies anyone who bothers him in any way, including a man offering to train him as a sorcerer and [[SelfMadeOrphan his own parents]] for having let the man into their house at all. In the present, now a SorcerousOverlord, Xykon carries out horrific acts solely for his own amusement and abuses his goblin henchmen to the point one tries to assassinate him. Allowing the brother of his would-be assailant to kill his brother, Xykon binds him to his service, then mocks him and forces him to bring his brother back as a zombie. Trapping the souls of two mages within a gem where they are doomed to [[AndIMustScream suffer for eternity]], Xykon is a PsychopathicManchild of a ruler devoted only to hurting others to entertain himself.
to:
* CompleteMonster: The silly-seeming but utterly ruthless [[BigBad Xykon]] plans to unleash the destructive Snarl to obliterate his enemies, uncaring of warnings that it is a beast with the potential to destroy the world. Sacking Azure City to claim their gate which will help him control the Snarl, Xykon gleefully uses a Symbol of Insanity to cause their entire guard to kill each other, deeming it to be the [[ForTheEvulz most fun way]] to wipe them out. In [[Recap/StartOfDarkness [[[[Recap/TheOrderOfTheStickStartOfDarkness Start of Darkness]] his backstory]], when a then-child Xykon's dog dies and he resurrects it, he happily watches it devour a bird, showing he was twisted [[EnfantTerrible from the start]]. As a teenager, Xykon kills and zombifies anyone who bothers him in any way, including a man offering to train him as a sorcerer and [[SelfMadeOrphan his own parents]] for having let the man into their house at all. In the present, now a SorcerousOverlord, Xykon carries out horrific acts solely for his own amusement and abuses his goblin henchmen to the point one tries to assassinate him. Allowing the brother of his would-be assailant to kill his brother, Xykon binds him to his service, then mocks him and forces him to bring his brother back as a zombie. Trapping the souls of two mages within a gem where they are doomed to [[AndIMustScream suffer for eternity]], Xykon is a PsychopathicManchild of a ruler devoted only to hurting others to entertain himself.
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* DesignatedEvil: V [[spoiler:murdering Kubota]] is treated in story as their MoralEventHorizon and the first sign that their obsession with reuniting with the other members of the Order and perfecting their magic to avoid what happened in Azure City is starting to lead them down a dark path. [[spoiler:But considering what an unrepentantly vile SmugSnake Kubota had been up to this point (to the point that, mere moments before his death, he was ''gloating'' to Elan about how he planned to rig his trial in his favor), many believed that V made the right call and Elan being so angry over it is forced.]]
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* DisegnatedEvil: V [[spoiler:murdering Kubota]] is treated in story as their MoralEventHorizon and the first sign that their obsession with reuniting with the other members of the Order and perfecting their magic to avoid what happened in Azure City is starting to lead them down a dark path. [[spoiler:But considering what an unrepentantly vile SmugSnake Kubota had been up to this point (to the point that, mere moments before his death, he was ''gloating'' to Elan about how he planned to rig his trial in his favor), many believed that V made the right call and Elan being so angry over it is forced.]]
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* DisegnatedEvil: V [[spoiler:murdering Kubota]] is treated in story as their MoralEventHorizon and the first sign that their obsession with reuniting with the other members of the Order and perfecting their magic to avoid what happened in Azure City is starting to lead them down a dark path. [[spoiler:But considering what an unrepentantly vile SmugSnake Kubota had been up to this point (to the point that, mere moments before his death, he was ''gloating'' to Elan about how he planned to rig his trial in his favor), many believed that V made the right call and Elan being so angry over it is forced.]]
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Changed line(s) 171 (click to see context) from:
** [[spoiler:The High Priest of Hel forcing Durkon to re-live the worst memory of his life, then bragging about how his EvilPlan will condemn all the dwarves to become slaves of Hel and asking Roy [[TraumaButton how many pieces they found his brother's body in]]]] is about when he finally went over the line. Alternatively, he may have crossed it earlier when he [[spoiler:killed and vampirized the Exarch for fun]].
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** [[spoiler:The High Priest of Hel forcing Durkon to re-live the worst memory of his life, then bragging about how his EvilPlan will condemn all the dwarves to become slaves of Hel and asking Roy [[TraumaButton [[RelativeButton how many pieces they found his brother's body in]]]] is about when he finally went over the line. Alternatively, he may have crossed it earlier when he [[spoiler:killed and vampirized the Exarch for fun]].
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Recentism
Changed line(s) 148 (click to see context) from:
** Meanwhile, Tarquin is Darth Vader as a troper. Currently the theory that these three men between them fathered most of the ''[=OotS=]'' cast is doing the rounds on the forums.
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** Meanwhile, Tarquin is Darth Vader as a troper. Currently the A theory that these three men between them fathered most of the ''[=OotS=]'' cast is doing made the rounds on the forums.
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Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The Oracle is read by the majority fans as a simple {{Chessmaster}}, but a subset of fanfic writers have taken to a rather tricky interpretation of the whole [[spoiler: "Lickmyorangeballshalfling"]] thing. The theory goes that the Oracle, [[spoiler: being totally omniscient and thus unable to be surprised by ''anything'', is some kind of sociopath who manipulates people just to have some form of entertainment. After all, Belkar's prophecy was entirely self-fulfilling: he ''did'' end up "causing the death of" the Oracle (by, y'know... ''directly murdering him''), but only after being goaded into doing so by the Oracle, who claimed that Miko and Windstriker's deaths were indirectly his fault. The cyclic nature of the prophecy has been extrapolated by some to create a truly terrifying character that.... frankly doesn't really appear in the comic as such]]. However, he ''is'' perturbed by Roy thinking he's a JerkassGenie and feels the need to overspecify his question; the Oracle repeatedly asks if he's ''sure'' he wants to ask that way.
to:
** The Oracle is read by the majority fans as a simple {{Chessmaster}}, but a subset of fanfic writers have taken to a rather tricky interpretation of the whole [[spoiler: "Lickmyorangeballshalfling"]] [[spoiler:"Lickmyorangeballshalfling"]] thing. The theory goes that the Oracle, [[spoiler: being [[spoiler:being totally omniscient and thus unable to be surprised by ''anything'', is some kind of sociopath who manipulates people just to have some form of entertainment. After all, Belkar's prophecy was entirely self-fulfilling: he ''did'' end up "causing the death of" the Oracle (by, y'know... ''directly murdering him''), but only after being goaded into doing so by the Oracle, who claimed that Miko and Windstriker's deaths were indirectly his fault. The cyclic nature of the prophecy has been extrapolated by some to create a truly terrifying character that....that... frankly doesn't really appear in the comic as such]]. However, he ''is'' perturbed by Roy thinking he's a JerkassGenie and feels the need to overspecify his question; the Oracle repeatedly asks if he's ''sure'' he wants to ask that way.
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Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The Oracle is read by the majority fans as a simple {{Chessmaster}}, but a subset of fanfic writers have taken to a rather tricky interpretation of the whole [[spoiler: "Lickmyorangeballshalfling"]] thing. [[spoiler: The theory goes that the Oracle, being totally omniscient and thus unable to be surprised by ''anything'', is some kind of sociopath who manipulates people just to have some form of entertainment. After all, Belkar's prophecy was entirely self-fulfilling: he ''did'' end up "causing the death of" the Oracle (by, y'know... ''directly murdering him''), but only after being goaded into doing so by the Oracle, who claimed that Miko's and Windstriker's deaths were indirectly his fault. The cyclic nature of the prophecy has been extrapolated by some to create a truly terrifying character that.... frankly doesn't really appear in the comic as such]]. However, he ''is'' perturbed by Roy thinking he's a JerkassGenie and feels the need to overspecify his question; the Oracle repeatedly asks if he's ''sure'' he wants to ask that way.
to:
** The Oracle is read by the majority fans as a simple {{Chessmaster}}, but a subset of fanfic writers have taken to a rather tricky interpretation of the whole [[spoiler: "Lickmyorangeballshalfling"]] thing. [[spoiler: The theory goes that the Oracle, [[spoiler: being totally omniscient and thus unable to be surprised by ''anything'', is some kind of sociopath who manipulates people just to have some form of entertainment. After all, Belkar's prophecy was entirely self-fulfilling: he ''did'' end up "causing the death of" the Oracle (by, y'know... ''directly murdering him''), but only after being goaded into doing so by the Oracle, who claimed that Miko's Miko and Windstriker's deaths were indirectly his fault. The cyclic nature of the prophecy has been extrapolated by some to create a truly terrifying character that.... frankly doesn't really appear in the comic as such]]. However, he ''is'' perturbed by Roy thinking he's a JerkassGenie and feels the need to overspecify his question; the Oracle repeatedly asks if he's ''sure'' he wants to ask that way.
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** While Eugene is [[spoiler:impersonating his daughter Julia and talking to Roy]], he seemingly expresses that he regrets burdening his family with the Blood Oath while he is unable to help. Is this proof that he's genuinely sorry, or merely a lie [[spoiler:to keep his cover intact]]?
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move to Main/
Changed line(s) 155 (click to see context) from:
** [[https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Thog_edits Thog Edits]], born from an anon in /tg/ trying to shorten particularly verbose comics by removing letters and whole words from the speech balloons and mutating into what's essentially [[WebAnimation/YoutubePoop Comic Pooping]] through the same manipulative letter removal.
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** [[https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Thog_edits Thog Edits]], born from an anon in /tg/ trying to shorten particularly verbose comics by removing letters and whole words from the speech balloons and mutating into what's essentially [[WebAnimation/YoutubePoop [[YoutubePoop Comic Pooping]] through the same manipulative letter removal.
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Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
** [[{{Literature/Twilight}} Edward Cullen]]×Literature/HarryPotter×[[{{Literature/Dragonlance}} Raistlin Majere]]×Xykon×Tsukiko×Lien×[[{{Webcomic/Erfworld}} Stanley the Tool]]×[[http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6419640#post6419640 Winston Churchill]]. Sometimes they get a little psyched up.
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** [[{{Literature/Twilight}} [[Literature/TheTwilightSaga Edward Cullen]]×Literature/HarryPotter×[[{{Literature/Dragonlance}} Raistlin Majere]]×Xykon×Tsukiko×Lien×[[{{Webcomic/Erfworld}} Stanley the Tool]]×[[http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6419640#post6419640 Winston Churchill]]. Sometimes they get a little psyched up.
Changed line(s) 88 (click to see context) from:
** [[http://www.cafepress.com/orderofthestick/8305389 The T-shirt]] of Durkon turning [[Literature/{{Twilight}} a vampire]] has become this now that [[spoiler:Durkon has become a vampire]].
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** [[http://www.cafepress.com/orderofthestick/8305389 The T-shirt]] of Durkon turning [[Literature/{{Twilight}} [[Literature/TheTwilightSaga a vampire]] has become this now that [[spoiler:Durkon has become a vampire]].
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Authors Saving Throw is Trivia that needs Word Of God confirmation
Deleted line(s) 23 (click to see context) :
* AuthorsSavingThrow: Even after [[spoiler:the [[CryForTheDevil tragic circumstances of her death]]]], [[BaseBreakingCharacter Miko]] was still a [[TheScrappy highly-disliked character]] for many readers, although the Giant was always clear that she wasn't ''supposed'' to be likable. Years later, "How the Paladin Got His Scar" revealed that much of the KnightTemplar and BlackAndWhiteInsanity traits which made her so annoying can be traced back to [[spoiler:her tutelage under the poor example of Gin-Jun, a paladin who was just as fanatical (and arguably even ''more'' [[JerkAss unpleasant]]) than her]]. As an added bonus, said story ended with [[spoiler:[[KickTheSonOfABitch Miko killing him]]]].
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Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily a {{Chessmaster}}, and is more of a high-functioning / extremely lucky BigBadWannabe. Specifically the Giant's claim that [[UnreliableExpositor we only had Tarquin's word]] for [[MilesGloriosus how awesome Tarquin was]] and that he hoped GenreSavvy fans would have picked up on this. For some, this was a welcome bit of canon and substantiated the implications they perceived that he was WrongGenreSavvy, whereas others appreciated it because they viewed him as a borderline Villain Sue who needed to be knocked down a peg. Still others view this as spoiling one of their favorite villains, and claim it makes no sense with what Tarquin actually achieves in-story, citing how various unbiased characters have commented on how powerful and dangerous he is (Geoff and Ian mention how he took over a good chunk of the continent in less than a year through sheer strategic prowess, and was only defeated by a federation of '''''twenty-six enemy nations'''''), the successful long-con on the Western Continent was his idea (unless that was a result of UnreliableExpositor too), and his demonstrable battle prowess against the Order. Another minor split along these lines is whether or not his tendency to adhere to story tropes means he's a strategic genius on a meta level, as he really is in a story, or whether it means he's severely hampered for when the story doesn't go the way he thinks it will, as the plot has outright defied several of these tropes in the past.
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** There is a bit of a divide among fans regarding how [[WordOfGod Word of the Giant]] states that Tarquin is not necessarily a {{Chessmaster}}, TheChessmaster, and is more of a high-functioning / extremely lucky BigBadWannabe. Specifically the Giant's claim that [[UnreliableExpositor we only had Tarquin's word]] for [[MilesGloriosus how awesome Tarquin was]] and that he hoped GenreSavvy fans would have picked up on this. For some, this was a welcome bit of canon and substantiated the implications they perceived that he was WrongGenreSavvy, whereas others appreciated it because they viewed him as a borderline Villain Sue who needed to be knocked down a peg. Still others view this as spoiling one of their favorite villains, and claim it makes no sense with what Tarquin actually achieves in-story, citing how various unbiased characters have commented on how powerful and dangerous he is (Geoff and Ian mention how he took over a good chunk of the continent in less than a year through sheer strategic prowess, and was only defeated by a federation of '''''twenty-six enemy nations'''''), the successful long-con on the Western Continent was his idea (unless that was a result of UnreliableExpositor too), and his demonstrable battle prowess against the Order. Another minor split along these lines is whether or not his tendency to adhere to story tropes means he's a strategic genius on a meta level, as he really is in a story, or whether it means he's severely hampered for when the story doesn't go the way he thinks it will, as the plot has outright defied several of these tropes in the past.
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Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
* CreepyAwesome: Malack; when he lets on his full vampire side he is frightening, a bit disgusting (blood, sure, but he also adds warts in his tea) and really intimidating.
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* CreepyAwesome: Malack; when he lets on his full vampire [[spoiler:vampire]] side he is frightening, a bit disgusting (blood, ([[spoiler:blood, sure, but he also adds warts in his tea) tea]]) and really intimidating.
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This isn't an example. He's a clear Hate Sink and the story isn't considered worse for his being in it.
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** Eugene Greenhilt. Passed down a Blood Oath to his son, Roy, forcing him to either kill an epic lich sorcerer or be BarredFromTheAfterlife when he dies -- and it was later confirmed he barely ''tried'' to fulfil it. On top of that, he pointlessly antagonizes Roy, who's actively working on fulfilling the oath, because he disapproves of his class selection -- and because he knows he can get away with it, since Roy will try and stop Xykon because it's the right thing to do. It's also offhandedly mentioned that he's responsible for Roy's little brother Eric's death, caused by one of his botched experiments. And unlike the actual villains, he's not powerful, a complex character, or entertaining -- he's just a bitter old prick.
