History YMMV / Robin

* AngstWhatAngst: Go ahead. ''Try'' to find a comic with Tim Drake making a big deal over Stephanie Brown's "death". Her passing wound up being mostly overshadowed in his book by his father's passing in ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis''.

** For Tim Drake, the period around 2004 to 2008 saw his TraumaCongaLine kick into high gear: his father was killed off in the controversial ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis'' miniseries, his girlfriend and successor Stephanie Brown was killed in the hated "War Games" arc, his best friend Superboy was killed off in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'', and his ''other'' best friend Bart Allen was killed a short time later. This storm of angst combined with another infamous storyline remained a stain on the character's record and resulted in him being ''very'' depressing to read until Chuck Dixon, Fabian Nicieza, and Chris Yost took on the character with the tail-end of ''Robin'' and the ''Red Robin'' series.

** Tim Drake slowly became one thanks to his life gradually getting darker and grimmer in various ways which were divisive for his fans, and then the New 52 period and its aftermath which erased and/or overhauled at best his prior history. For instance, he used to be defined as the Robin with his own stable home life outside of Batman's environment. Then he was orphaned like Bruce and taken in by him, his girlfriend Stephanie died (though she was brought back due to fan demand), his breezy Young Justice days ended and he and his peers got a lot more sullen and angsty as the revived Teen Titans, he got even more so after his friends Superboy and then Impulse/Kid Flash died (but also later came back due to fan demand), and he was arbitrarily let go as Robin in favor of Damian. Even after all that, he was slowly carving out his own niche as Red Robin, akin to Cassandra Cain going from Batgirl to Black Bat. But all that got scuppered with the New 52. Many new fans have since been introduced to the franchise under Damian Wayne's tenure as Robin, and so have gotten used to him in the role. However, this meant Tim has meandered without any relevance since the reboot, not helped by him getting completely overhauled as a character in an attempt to make him more standout. Fans who are familiar with the character and how he was handled beforehand still prefer Tim and wish he got properly developed again, while fans who were never familiar with him or only became familiar in retrospect just see him as [[MiddleChildSyndrome the boring or redundant, placeholder middle child]] and don't see what's so appealing about him. This last bit is ironic because between Jason's death and resurrection, ''he'' was treated as the ill-fitting middle child Robin, but making him Red Hood redefined his dynamic with the rest of the Batfamily and gained him a new fanbase.

** Tim Drake slowly became one thanks to his life gradually getting darker and grimmer in various ways which were divisive for his fans, and then the New 52 period and its aftermath which erased and/or overhauled at best his prior history. For instance, he used to be defined as the Robin with his own stable home life outside of Batman's environment, Then he was orphaned like Bruce and taken in by him, his girlfriend Stephanie died (though she was brought back due to fan demand), his breezy Young Justice days ended and he and his peers got a lot more sullen and angsty as the revived Teen Titans, he got even more so after his friends Superboy and then Impulse/Kid Flash died (but also later came back due to fan demand), and he was arbitrarily let go as Robin in favor of Damian. Even after all that, he was slowly carving out his own niche as Red Robin, akin to Cassandra Cain going from Batgirl to Black Bat. But all that got scuppered with the New 52. Many new fans have since been introduced to the franchise under Damian Wayne's tenure as Robin, and so have gotten used to him in the role. However, this meant Tim has meandered without any relevance since the reboot, not helped by him getting completely overhauled as a character in an attempt to make him more standout. Fans who are familiar with the character and how he was handled beforehand still prefer Tim and wish he got properly developed again, while fans who were never familiar with him or only became familiar in retrospect just see him as [[MiddleChildSyndrome the boring or redundant, placeholder middle child]] and don't see what's so appealing about him. This last bit is ironic because between Jason's death and resurrection, ''he'' was treated as the ill-fitting middle child Robin, but making him Red Hood redefined his dynamic with the rest of the Batfamily and gained him a new fanbase.

** Tim Drake has slowly became one thanks to the New 52 period. Many new fans were introduced to the franchise under Damian Wayne's tenure as Robin, and so have gotten used to him in the role. However, this meant Tim has meandered without any relevance since the reboot, not helped by him getting completely overhauled as a character in an attempt to make him more standout. Fans who are familiar with the character and how he was handled beforehand still prefer Tim and wish he got properly developed again, while fans who were never familiar with him or only became familiar in retrospect just see him as the boring middle child and don't see what's so appealing about him.

** Jason, as Red Hood, also gets this treatment, often at the [[http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111253914/5680846-fgfgf.jpg hands of Damian]], as a KickTheSonOfABitch moment.

** Tim Drake has slowly became one thanks to the New 52 period. Many new fans were introduced to the franchise under Damian Wayne's tenure as Robin, and so have gotten used to him in the role. However, this meant Tim has meandered without any relevance since the reboot, not helped by him getting completely overhauled as a character in an attempt to make him more standout. Fans who are familiar with the character and how he was handled beforehand still prefer Tim and wish he got properly developed again, while fans who were never familiar with him just see him as the boring middle child and don't see what's so appealing about him.

* MemeticLoser: Non-comic fans usually think that Robin is this since he is usually shown to be a DistressedDude in his portrayal outside comics, mostly with the 1960's show with Burt Ward and the godawful ''Film/BatmanAndRobin'' film. Even Christian Bale shares the sentiment, stating he'd refuse to film anymore Batman movies if Robin were ever added to the franchise.

** Robin in general gets a lot of crap for supposedly being a DistressedDude. While Dick played this role straight a lot in the 60s TV show and Schumacher films, generally Batman was captured with him, and in the comics themselves Dick then went on to found the Teen Titans and become TheHeart of the entire DCU as Nightwing. As noted in TrueArtIsAngsty, some people seem to think that Robin ''cannot'' work in live-action, even if they're willing to admit he could work seriously in animated or comic form (which leads to some form of AnimationAgeGhetto mentalities).

* TrueArtIsAngsty: A part of the reason for so much stigma against Robin outside of cartoons and comics; the idea of Batman, a dark and brooding loner, taking on a protogé who dresses in a campy brightly coloured costume is seen as such an ill-fitting idea that some believe that Robin simply ''cannot'' work on film, and its not helped by the only time he got a 'serious' film adaptation was the Creator/JoelSchumacher films, ''Film/BatmanForever'' and ''Film/BatmanAndRobin'', which didn't do well for his image, leading both Creator/ChristianBale and Creator/ChristopherNolan swearing against including him in [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy their films]]. It should be noted that in those films ''and'' the classic Adam West 60s ''Series/{{Batman|1966}}'' show, Robin wasn't any worse than Batman in how he was depicted, so blaming him for it is pretty unfair.

* HardToAdaptWork: Robin is considered a classic mainstay of the ''Batman'' lore and superhero media in general... except when it comes to live-action media. The entire idea of Robin as a brightly-colored KidSidekick foil to Batman that [[KidAppealCharacter appeals to younger audiences]] has a much easier time getting accepted in more lighthearted or cartoony media like comics and animation, but many creators in film and TV have been a lot more hesitant to play Robin straight due to how garish and silly "The Boy Wonder" is as a concept. This has resulted in the likes of ''Series/Batman1966'' [[AgeLift aging him up to his late teens]], ''Film/BatmanForever'' and ''Film/BatmanAndRobin'' aging him up to young adult age ''and'' [[DarkerAndEdgier redesigning his costume to be darker and more in line with Batman's]], ''Series/Titans2018'' introducing him as [[AdaptationalAngstUpgrade especially angsty]] and having already split off from Batman, and other creators like Creator/TimBurton, Creator/ChristopherNolan, and Creator/ZackSnyder consciously avoiding Robin altogether because of how much he clashes with their interpretations of Batman and the movies they're in. It also doesn't seem to matter which [[LegacyCharacter incarnation of Robin]] is discussed, as even relatively darker ones like Jason Todd and Damian Wayne don't have enough of a popcultural foothold to make Robin more digestible in a darker, "realistic" medium without very significant alterations.

* HardToAdaptWork: Robin is considered a classic mainstay of the ''Batman'' lore and superhero media in general... except when it comes to live-action media. The entire idea of Robin as a brightly-colored KidSidekick foil to Batman that [[KidAppealCharacter appeals to younger audiences]] has a much easier time getting accepted in more lighthearted or cartoony media like comics and animation, but many creators in film and TV have been a lot more hesitant to play Robin straight due to how garish and silly "The Boy Wonder" is as a concept, resulting in the likes of ''Series/Batman1966'' [[AgeLift aging him up to his late teens]], ''Film/BatmanForever'' and ''Film/BatmanAndRobin'' aging him up to young adult age ''and'' [[DarkerAndEdgier redesigning his costume to be darker and more in line with Batman's]], and other creators like Creator/TimBurton, Creator/ChristopherNolan, and Creator/ZackSnyder consciously avoiding Robin altogether because of how much he clashes with their interpretations of Batman and the movies they're in. It also doesn't seem to matter which [[LegacyCharacter incarnation of Robin]] is discussed, as even relatively darker ones like Jason Todd and Damian Wayne don't have enough of a popcultural foothold to make Robin more digestible in a darker, "realistic" medium without very significant alterations.

** Megan Fitzmartin's treatment of Tim Drake in the 2020s, and by extension her treatment of Stephanie Brown. On the one hand, many fans had predicted that Tim Drake was bisexual or at least not 100% straight, and are happy to have it finally acknowledged. Some however view this as coming out of nowhere and dislike changing characters' sexualities, for various reasons. On the middle ground, some believe that while Tim Drake coming out is a good thing, he didn't need to dump Steph so callously to set it up, and in fact, the attitude that he ''did'' is perceived as bi-erasure, and the sexuality development doesn't make up for other weaknesses in the writing. A common sentiment is that Tim's sexuality has been handled in a way that's more appealing to straight women than it actually is to bisexual men, not helped by the fact Steph was ''also'' popularly perceived as bisexual, and her being discarded feels insulting in this regard.

* DorkAge:
** For Tim Drake, the period around 2004 to 2008 saw his TraumaCongaLine kick into high gear: his father was killed off in the controversial ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis'' miniseries, his girlfriend and successor Stephanie Brown was killed in the hated "War Games" arc, his best friend Superboy was killed off in ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'', and his ''other'' best friend Bart Allen was killed a short time later. This storm of angst combined with another infamous storyline remained a stain on the character's record and resulted in him being ''very'' depressing to read until Chuck Dixon, Fabian Nicieza, and Chris Yost took on the character with the tail-end of ''Robin'' and the ''Red Robin'' series.
** Tim entered ''another one'' with the New 52, where his character veered further into "Batman Jr." territory and his unique Robin traits were eliminated. He was now ''never'' an ordinary kid and was always a child prodigy at every skill he would need to be Robin. Instead of discovering Batman's identity on his own and realising that Bruce needed a Robin, he was now ''already'' being headhunted by Bruce and idiotically got on the Penguin's radar, which led to his family having to enter witness protection and thus him assuming the new identity of Tim Drake... yes, it's not even his real name.
** After leaving it to some extent with ''ComicBook/DetectiveComicsRebirth'', Tim entered it ''again'' with the infamous "Drake" period. Some consider this a wake-up call that DC has no idea where to take Tim's character. The name came from an evil alternate universe counterpart and Tim himself was relegated to the ''ComicBook/YoungJustice2019'' series, where he... meandered about. Luckily, at the very least the Drake costume and codename were removed, thanks to an in-universe intervention from the Batfamily.

* {{Narm}}: Tim Drake's identity of Red Robin can be hard to take seriously for readers familiar with the restaurant chain. His identity as "Drake" even moreso; besides the terrible costume, the in-universe given reason for the name Drake is laughable in how it [[CriticalResearchFailure failed to look up what type of bird a drake is]] before declaring it the "[[{{Narm}} most dangerous]]" (for reference, a drake is a male ''duck'').

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Tim's New 52 origin where Tim Drake isn't his real name and he was never Robin? Gone. ''Detective Comics'' #965 spends the first few pages basically establishing that the pre-Flashpoint origin is canon again and that Tim ''was'' Robin.
** Happened multiple times after Steph's run. First, it was retconned that [[TheMedic Leslie Thompkins]] was at fault for Steph's death and not Bruce, because she refused to give Steph the medical attention she needed. ''That'' was retconned into Leslie Thompkins [[FakingTheDead faking Stephanie's death]], lying to Bruce, and smuggling her out of Gotham. Bruce was also retconned into suspecting that Stephanie wasn't dead to explain [[ForgottenFallenFriend why he hadn't made a memorial for Stephanie like he did for Jason.]]
*** Post-Rebirth, a Robin 80th Anniversary one-shot subtly retconned that Stephanie did know Bruce's identity and was given the same training and treatment as the other Robins, instead of her time in the role and her subsequent death being the [[EpicFail horrible results]] of a failed BatmanGambit.

** Fans who prefer one Robin over another get pretty furious whenever their preferred Robin is shown to be weaker than another. In online communities, Jason Todd fans launched multiple hate campaigns against Comicbook/{{Batman}} writer Tom King when he had Damian easily defeating Jason in Comicbook/RobinWar.

** The amount of doting Scott Lobdell does for Jason Todd at the expense of characterization and plot has turned most people away from Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws (and by extension its sequel Red Hood/Arsenal). It often shows up in the form of characters created for the sole purpose of CharacterShilling, or by downplaying other characters to make Jason look good. Even many fans that like Jason are a bit put off, partially because of his lack of regard for ShowDontTell, partially because they find many of the scenarios touched upon when writing Jason (such as Jason moving on from his past and healing from his trauma) to be an example of TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot and partly because of some UnfortunateImplications that has cropped up throughout his writing. Not helped by the fact that Lobdell's admitted in an interview that he cares more about action beats than character arcs or the perception that he views Jason as his personal self-insert.

* MemeticLoser: Non-comic fans usually think that Robin is this since he is usually shown to be a DistressedDude in his portrayal outside comics, mostly with the 1960's show with Burt Ward and the godawful Film/BatmanAndRobin film. Even Christian Bale shares the sentiment, stating he'd refuse to film anymore Batman movies if Robin were ever added to the franchise.

** Judd Winick is usually considered this for Jason Todd, due to his "Under the Hood" storyline and how pooly received Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws is. Though Grant Morrison is generally praised for his portrayal of Jason as a vigilante gone overboard.

** Jason Todd gained quite a few fans as Red Hood when he first reappeared, although he was still the biggest BaseBreakingCharacter Robin. This has gone back and forth, with the character's portayal being panned in the likes of Bruce Jones's "Nightwing" run, "Battle For The Cowl", and the Scott Lobdell's Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws.
** Stephanie Brown became a fan favorite thanks to her highly praised [[Comicbook/{{Batgirl 2009}} Batgirl]] series.

** The New 52 version of Jason Todd receives a lot of this as well. Where he was previously a nuanced villain in WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood, the post-Comicbook/{{Flashpoint}} version of him is more of a cookie-cutter angsty anti-hero. It also doesn't help that he's been clumsily integrated back into the Bat family (most likely by editorial mandate), and is utilized as TheGenericGuy or for TheWorfEffect. That ''most'' of his post-Flashpoint series are written by Creator/ScottLobdell and have been lambasted by critics and fans alike also makes things worse.

** Jason: As the writer of both the ''Under the Hood'' comic (and it's [[WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood adaptation]]), Creator/JuddWinick is considered MyRealDaddy for Jason Todd as Red Hood, though many do consider Red Hood's best story to be in Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman. This is why the post-Comicbook/{{Flashpoint}} anti-hero Jason is often considered TheScrappy even in his own book, particularly when compared to the previously mentioned.
** Tim: Creator/ChuckDixon is widely considered to be the definitive writer, though the Comicbook/RedRobin series generally gets a fair amount of praise from Tim Drake fans.

* TrollingCreator: Comicbook/{{Batman}} writer Tom King posted a half-serious Batfamily combat rankings list that enraged fans to no extent, prompting other writers to get in on the fun as well. Some of the controversial picks included ranking both [[Comicbook/{{Batgirl}} Cassandra Cain]] and [[Comicbook/{{Nightwing}} Dick Grayson]] over Batman himself, and putting [[Comicbook/{{Robin}} Jason Todd and Tim Drake]] below some notable female characters. To add insult to injury, he also jokingly ranked Jason below Ace the Bathound in terms of intelligence.

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: One of the major criticisms of the AuthorsSavingThrow that Stephanie was FakingtheDead and Bruce was aware. It makes Stephanie come off like she was trying to dodge responsibility in starting a gang war that got many people killed, especially since this isn't even acknowledged after she returns to Gotham. She also let her boyfriend think she was dead for seven months. Although she couldn't have known about Tim's TraumaCongaLine during that time, ''Bruce'' did. He could have let Tim know about his suspicions or let Steph know about the effect her death is having on him. Bruce suspecting she's alive means that he also chose not to seek her out to check on her or comfort her after she was tortured and almost killed. Instead of undoing a [[StuffedintheFridge fridging]] and absolving Batman of never seeming to care about her, it hurts Steph's character worse than the original story did and makes it seem even more like Batman just saw her as a tool.

** The Robin identity in general. Some people think the very idea of a brightly-colored minor running around and fighting criminals is ridiculous. Others consider it a NecessaryWeasel to keep Batman from getting too grimdark. Others invoke the GrandfatherClause and say that whether it makes sense or not, it's part of comics tradition and too late to change. A lot of this really comes down to how people view the Batman franchise as a whole; if they think Batman ''should'' be a grounded, DarkerAndEdgier setting, the idea of Robin is a slap to that and the only way to make it work is to make Robin significantly darker too. If they think it should be dark but maintain the fantastical weirdness, Robin is generally better embraced, especially as the role is no weirder than Harley Quinn.

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: One of the major criticisms of the AuthorsSavingThrow that Stephanie was FakingtheDead and Bruce was aware. It makes Stephanie come off like she was trying to dodge responsibility in starting a gang war that got thousands of people killed, especially since this isn't even acknowledged after she returns to Gotham. She also let her boyfriend think she was dead for seven months. Although she couldn't have known about Tim's TraumaCongaLine during that time, ''Bruce'' did. He could have let Tim know about his suspicions or let Steph know about the effect her death is having on him. Bruce suspecting she's alive means that he also chose not to seek her out to check on her or comfort her after she was tortured and almost killed. Instead of undoing a [[StuffedintheFridge fridging]] and absolving Batman of never seeming to care about her, it hurts Steph's character worse than the original story did and makes it seem even more like Batman just saw her as a tool.

** Dick: Due to the number of different writers who have been influential to the character (such as Marv Wolfman, Creator/ChuckDixon, Creator/GrantMorrison, Creator/ScottSnyder, Tom King and Tim Seeley), this trope is either TurnedUpToEleven (where fans insist that only one creator truly understands the character), or averted entirely (in which fans are willing to accept different takes on him).

** Dick for the [[WhoWearsShortShorts short-shorts]] and pixie boots, combined with the [[HoYay homoerotic subtext between himself and Batman.]]