History YMMV / RedHoodAndTheOutlaws

* AssPull: Wingman's identity being [[spoiler: Willis Todd.]] While there was foreshadowing to him being alive in the issues leading up to the reveal, all of it pointed towards [[spoiler:Solidary]] being his identity, up to his obsession with Red Hood and knowledge about his past. There was absolutely no foreshadowing or explanation as to how he received his training, or why Jason didn't recognize him as his (unmasked) limo driver during his "Prince of Gotham" phase.

* BadassDecay: Prior to the series, Jason was portrayed as a WellIntentionedExtremist who planned ahead and was willing to kill to accomplish what he thought was necessary. In both the ComicBook/New52 and Comicbook/DCRebirth series, Jason merely describes himself as a "bad guy", but actually spends most of his time angsting over having to follow Batman's rules. Somehow getting to this point with no redemption arc or HeelRealization from his previous mass-murdering activities.

** The issue 0 revealing that the Joker basically orchestrated Jason's becoming Robin and his death (as in even Jason finding his mom). Suffice to say, many don't like it, since the Joker comes off as a Villain Sue, and out of character, and outright ignore it. As of Comicbook/DCRebirth, it is no longer canon.
** Arsenal's new backstory of being a snotty child prodigy with a neglectful alcoholic dad was hated by his fans, to the point they do not want the character to associate with the ''Outlaws'' or Jason Todd in the future. Perception has been that Roy was downgraded into a SatelliteCharacter who seemed to only exist to boost his supposed "best friend" Red Hood while he was written as a pathetic {{Manchild}} with next to none of the depth, charisma, and rugged compassion he had pre-Flashpoint. It's gotten so bad that fans on twitter lost their shit over a single ''panel'' released for ''ComicBook/DarkCrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' which showed Jason telling Roy he would help him find Roy's daughter Lian.

** Not long after leaving the Outlaws, Starfire received an [[Comicbook/Starfire2015 ongoing]] that allows for fans to ignore her history with the boys.

* NoSuchThingAsBadPublicity: The controversy over Starfire's portrayal in the first issue generated a lot of online discussion for a book that would most likely have been forgotten otherwise in the wave of New 52 #1s, which most likely helped the book avoid cancellation until Comicbook/{{Convergence}}, despite poor reviews. It drew quite a bit of attention from readers who opposed the feminist leanings of many comic journalists while creating a straw man against anyone who gave the book poor reviews. In contrast, the sequel series ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal and the Comicbook/DCRebirth series have been relatively uncontroversial, and have seen diminishing returns on sales numbers.

** Roy Harper's new backstory. Many fans were unhappy that his Navajo upbringing was made a minor element on Roy's characterization and that his birth father was retconned from a forest ranger who died in a fire when Roy was three to a neglectful alcoholic that died much later.

** Jason/Roy is a major ship, partly thanks to several HoYay moments between the two and partly due to the case of PlatonicWritingRomanticReading of Roy and Kori.

* TheWoobie:

* WTHCostumingDepartment:
** Jason's new outfit was really derided by fans as many feel like it's a cheap copy to ComicBook/ThePunisher or [[Franchise/MortalKombat Sub Zero]]. While there are some who admit to liking the new outfit, ''nobody'' likes his new buzz haircut. It's kinda telling when Jason's old haircut was brought back after a few issues and various artists try his best to salvage the outfit to positive reviews.
** Artemis's undercut likewise got the same reaction as Jason's buzz cut with many wishing she can grow back her hair really fast. [[AuthorsSavingThrow Which she did in one chapter.]]

** On the flip side many found RHATO #25 to be the final straw for them where Bruce Wayne/Batman was concerned as it was the last, in a long line, of moments where the 'World's Greatest Detective' and supposedly good father abuse or neglect one of his children. After the entire Spyral arc with Nightwing; forcing Jason to relive his murder to resurrect Damian; treating Stephanie Brown aka Spoiler, like absolute crap and slapping Tim when he tried to help him during the entire wedding to Catwoman fiasco this was the nail in the coffin for the character. Especially as Jason never fights back during the entire issue and had just seen his team die for all he knew.

* MisBlamed: Scott Lobdell's most die-hard fans are eager to blame editorial, or other writers, for writing missteps. However, multiple interviews confirm that Lobdell's Rebirth run (which was well-received in relation to his body of work as a whole) had its direction, the roster make-up, and even some of the creative decisions tightly controlled by editorial. Lobdell himself has admitted that he often doesn't bother planning story arcs in advance, or doing research on characters that he's writing.

* OvershadowedByControversy: There is a lot of discussion regarding Scott Lobdell's [[https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/06/26/sexual-harassment-comics-industry-again/ history]] of [[https://www.themarysue.com/scot-lobdell-sexual-harassment/ sexual]] [[https://www.comicsbeat.com/scott-lobdell-i-apologize-to-marinaomi/ harassment]], stalking, and racist comments, along with reports that senior staffers are told to keep him away from young female employees during company meetings. Adding further to the controversy are die-hard Red Hood fans who've harassed the women online for speaking out. The fact that Lobdell is friends with Editor-in-Chief Bob Harras (who is known for [[https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/12/31/the-complete-bleeding-cool-top-100-power-list-of-2018/ playing favorites]] and [[https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jtes/dc-comics-editor-eddie-berganza-sexual-harassment protecting sexual harassers]]) complicates this controversy further.

* TheScrappy: Interestingly, this doesn't apply to a character but an accessory. Roy's baseball cap/trucker hat, which he started wearing at the beginning of ''Outlaws'' and kept well into the ''Rebirth'' and ''Infinite Frontier'' eras of DC, has become an ongoing target of hatred from Roy's fans. They perceive the hat to be a representation of everything that was done to his personality following ''Flashpoint'' and have begged DC to make Roy get rid of it for good. Even after the hat was seemingly burned to ashes in ''Green Arrow'' and thrown in the trash in ''Infinite Frontier'', it somehow ''keeps coming back''. It even reached a point that characters in-universe began mocking Roy for the hat, with Jai West repeatedly saying it makes Roy look stupid.

* FridgeLogic:
** For Volume 1
*** Reactions to Starfire's characterization in the first issue were extremely poor. She's depicted as a character only in the book to be an emotionless MsFanservice with no apparent attachment to any of her former friends, and abruptly has sex with Roy for no real reason, whilst Jason also implies that he had slept with her as well, even making a joke about her breasts ("a pair of 38's") before she makes her initial appearance. Issue 6, which recounts how Starfire and Jason met, is an attempt to remedy Starfire's initial characterization, which {{Retcon}}s Jason's dialogue of being "with her" to mean that they had simply spent a night talking, with no sexual intimacy at all. It's also hinted that she may have been faking her memory problems all along, although the first issue has her explicitly narrating to herself about her inability to tell humans apart.
** For Volume 2
*** Batman believing that Jason would kill the mayor in the ''Rebirth'' issue makes zero sense, given that Jason is not known to kill innocent people, at least not intentionally. Although, [[FridgeBrilliance taking into consideration the events that occurred]] [[ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal in the previous series]][[note]][[spoiler: Wherein Jason murders the Iron Fist during a live stream to save Roy.]][[/note]], Batman probably assumed the worst: that [[KnightTemplar Jason had gone off-kilter again]]. It doesn't help that Jason didn't tell him of his real plan (curing the mayor of a techno-organic virus), which probably added to Batman's paranoia. The constant distrust Batman unwittingly casts towards Jason is also one of the themes explored going into the series.
*** Black Mask isn't bothered by Jason refusing to kill (despite the fact that he was shown shooting the mayor in public), and makes him the heir to his crime empire after a few minutes of conversation. Either he's carrying a major VillainBall, or he's baiting Jason hard, in which case the latter would be carrying an even bigger IdiotBall.

** Bizarro is well-liked for being an IronWoobie with a heart of gold, even among readers who find the other two characters completely unlikeable. In fact, the reception of the series dropped sharply when Bizarro departed the book.

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Crux, who was originally intended to be the fourth member of the Outlaws, has a [[spoiler:HeelFaceTurn near the end of the run]] which could be considered this.

** Same said for Arsenal's new backstory of being a snotty child prodigy with a neglectful alcoholic dad.
*** This eventually escalated to the point that Arsenal's fans do not want him anywhere near a comic with ''Outlaws'' in the title, and they do not want him near Jason Todd again. Perception has been that Roy was downgraded into a SatelliteCharacter who seemed to only exist to boost his supposed "best friend" Red Hood while he was written as a pathetic {{Manchild}} with next to none of the depth, charisma, and rugged compassion he had pre-Flashpoint. It's gotten so bad that fans on twitter lost their shit over a single ''panel'' released for ''ComicBook/DarkCrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' which showed Jason telling Roy he would help him find Roy's daughter Lian.

* UnfortunateImplications: Kori's line in the first issue where she says that she doesn't remember anything about her time on Earth, which many readers took to mean that she has the memory of a goldfish and [[QuestionableConsent made the idea that she could consent]] pretty dubious. Later on, it's shown that she was [[ObfuscatingStupidity faking it]], but even that doesn't come across as mentally healthy. Add to that the fact that Roy thought she really was amnesiac at the time ''and still had sex with her'' and he doesn't come out looking good either. In general, Starfire's character, especially the way her non-emotional promiscuity has been depicted. There are ways to portray a tired, lonely, emotionally defeated young woman seeking comfort through anonymous hookups, and this is ''not'' one of them. Her portrayal as an object of male fantasy is further [[http://sequart.org/magazine/5415/sexism-sexuality-and-the-dc-relaunch/ discussed here]]. Keep in mind that this is the first issue, and thus her EstablishingCharacterMoment, which is what Scott Lobdell expects readers to think of her.

** Jason/Roy is a major ship, partly thanks to several HoYay moments between the two and partly due to the RelationshipWritingFumble of Roy and Kori.

* RelationshipWritingFumble: General consensus on the Roy and Starfire relationship is that it's forced and feels like an obvious response to the criticism of the series' early portrayal of Starfire as a nympho without agency. At the same time, the nature of the QuestionableConsent of their first meeting is why many criticize the relationship in the first place.

** Jason's new outfit was really derided by fans as many feel like it's a cheap copy to ComicBook/ThePunisher or [[Franchise/MortalKombat Sub Zero]]. While there are some who admit to liking the new outfit, ''nobody'' likes his new buzz haircut. It's kinda telling when Jason's old haircut was brought back after a few issues and various artists try his best to salvage the outfit to positive reviews.

** Scott Lobdell's not-so-subtle implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women. It's even worse when considering that Jason was written as a KarmaHoudini.

* The first volume especially ignores most of Jason's history as a crime lord and eschewes his characterization from [[WesternAnimation/BatmanUnderTheRedHood the popular film adaptation of 'Under the Red Hood']], leaving many to cry foul over over a more sanitized personality.

** Scott Lobdell's tendency to litter pages with dozens of [[InfoDump exposition boxes]] describing in detail the characters' backgrounds, actions, and feelings in explicit detail is often mocked.

** "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on]] Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobdell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]