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* TheWoobie: Subverted, You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.

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* TheWoobie: Subverted, Subverted. You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.
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Fan reaction irrelevant past the line crossing.


* MoralEventHorizon: The skorne, who had already been established as cruel and pain-obsessed (if not outright sadistic), were given the Agonizer, an infant pachyderm abused to the point that it's now a sore-covered walking psychic nexus of pain and torment. [[FlameWar Opinions were divided on how tasteful this was]], and [[InternetBackdraft even now]] some people [[SingleIssueWonk are still touchy about it]].

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* MoralEventHorizon: The skorne, who had already been established as cruel and pain-obsessed (if not outright sadistic), were given the Agonizer, an infant pachyderm abused to the point that it's now a sore-covered walking psychic nexus of pain and torment. [[FlameWar Opinions were divided on how tasteful this was]], and [[InternetBackdraft even now]] some people [[SingleIssueWonk are still touchy about it]].

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk is the MonsterProgenitor of the dragon race, although he considers his progeny the only thing that might pose a threat to him and desires to [[OffingTheOffspring destroy them all]]. To accomplish this he becomes an OmnicidalManiac against every other race. He turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army.

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk [[ItsAllAboutMe Toruk]] is the MonsterProgenitor GodEmperor of the dragon race, although he considers his progeny the only thing that might pose a threat to him and desires to [[OffingTheOffspring destroy them all]]. To accomplish this this, he becomes an OmnicidalManiac against every other race. He turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army.

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Changed some examples in Tier Induced Scrappy, and Game Breaker. Indicating that these were in the previous edition of the game and are no longer the case in the current one.


** Epic Haley's amazing feat and strong spell list make her an extremely difficult opponent.

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** Epic During Mk II. epic Haley's amazing feat and strong spell list make made her an extremely difficult opponent.opponent. Being effective against almost any other faction, regardless of their warlock or warcaster.



** On release Butcher 3 was possibly the most powerful assassination caster in the game. With a maximum threat range of nearly ''two feet'', and a spell list that allowed him to cleave through screening units and ''pull his target towards him''.



** Cryx gets this the most. With cheap, nasty horde units, hard to counter abilities, and a "weakness" largely compensated by the design philosophy of the game, Cryx is the most dominant faction in competitive play. Many players actually come to tournaments with a "normal" list, and an "anti-Cryx" list geared entirely towards fighting them.

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** Cryx gets this the most. was ''despised'' and hands down ''the'' most broken faction in Mk II. With cheap, nasty horde units, hard to counter abilities, and a "weakness" largely compensated by the design philosophy of the game, Cryx is the most dominant faction in dominated competitive play. Many Their tournament presence was so insane that players actually come had to tournaments with a "normal" list, and an bring secondary "anti-Cryx" list lists geared entirely towards fighting them.them to even have a chance of competing.



** The changes to Skorne in Mk. III were panned by a large part of the player base. The designers have even admitted that they need to give the faction an overhaul.

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** The initial changes to Skorne in Mk. III were panned by a large part of the player base. base, some of whom considered the faction unplayable at the time. The designers have even admitted that they need this needed to be corrected and would give the faction them an overhaul.overhaul a little while after.
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Added the Deep Water terrain type as an example to Scrappy Mechanic

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** Deep Water terrain was near universally hated by players in Mk II, serving no purpose other than to screw over models or units without the Amphibious trait. Damaging anything that ended its activation in it, while removing any warjacks that did so from play. Because of this Deep Water was rarely seen on boards and completely removed from the game in Mk. III.
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** A number of the player base's more hated and disliked mechanics were changed going into Mk. III. The much hated moral mechanic was removed entirely, and pre-measuring became allowed to avoid the frustration of not knowing if models were in range to do something before using them.
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* GameplayDerailment: While players were encouraged to balance lists between battle groups and infantry, in practice this was rarely the case. The difficulty of running more than a few warjacks effectivly made Warmachine armies 'jack light and infantry heavy. While the relative ease of running warbeasts made the opposite true for Hordes. In some cases warmachine lists would have only one warjack, while hordes lists would have no infanty besides support models.
** This became so prevalent that the designers went out of their way to make sure it wouldn't happen again in Mk. III Making warjacks easier to support, and tripling the allowance of free points to buy warjacks and warbeasts with.
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** The changes to Skorne in Mk. III were panned by a large part of the player base. The designers have even admitted that they need to give the faction an overhaul.

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* ScrappyMechanic: In the lead-up to Mk. III game designers mentioned that the entire "psychology" section of the rules was basically [[TheArtifact a relic of previous wargames]] that doesn't really add a great deal to the game, and its attendant rulesets were to be entirely removed or reworked.



** The Legion of Everblight, their ''Hordes'' counterpart, which ''also'' benefits disproportionately from the game's aggression-friendly design philosophy. You ''know'' a faction's got problems when it's got some of the best infantry in the game, but no one bothers taking them because their warbeasts are ''just that good''. Between Eyeless Sight allowing them to ignore half the rules in the game, an incredibly-strong ranged game, and some of the most powerful feats in the game, the only reason the Legion isn't more hated than Cryx is that it's not quite as popular.

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** The Legion of Everblight, their ''Hordes'' counterpart, which ''also'' benefits disproportionately from the game's aggression-friendly design philosophy. You ''know'' a faction's got problems when it's got some of the best infantry in the game, but no one bothers taking them because their warbeasts are ''just that good''. Between Eyeless Sight allowing them to ignore half the rules in rules, a profusion of Flight or Pathfinder letting them ignore most of the game, other half, an incredibly-strong ranged game, toolbox, and some of the most powerful feats in the game, either gameline, the only reason the Legion isn't more hated than Cryx is that it's not quite as popular.



** In the RPG, humans have an almost hilariously-disproportionately large number of career options compared to everyone else.
* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.

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** In the RPG, humans have an almost hilariously-disproportionately large hilariously disproportionate number of career options compared to everyone else.
* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.
else. And that doesn't even account for the fact that the entire first major expansion to the game had a number of new careers, and ''almost all'' of them were human-exclusive.
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*** It got nerfed in Mk. III, though.

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Removed Flame Bait examples.


* CanonSue: Haley gets this flak a lot from the fan base. Stryker used to be labelled until he went DarkerAndEdgier
* CharacterAlignment: In keeping with the setting's D&D origins, each of Immoren's gods personifies one of these.



* GodModeSue: Hierarch Voyle becomes one when he invades Caspia. [[DrunkWithPower The power goes to his head]], and he's defeated by the sword carried by his CrystalDragonJesus.



* TheWoobie: Subverted, You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.
* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.

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* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.
* TheWoobie: Subverted, You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.
* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.
existence.
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** In the RPG, humans have an almost hilariously-disproportionately large number of career options compared to everyone else.
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* AuthorsSavingThrow: After fan complained about Cygnar becoming a FailureHero the Iron Kingdoms rulebook went into details about how most of its army is still intact thanks to use of TacticalWithdrawal and was planning a counter attack before the Cryx threat forced them and Khador into a EnemyMine.

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* AuthorsSavingThrow: After fan complained about Cygnar becoming a FailureHero the Iron Kingdoms rulebook went into details about how most of its army is still intact thanks to use of TacticalWithdrawal and was planning a counter attack before the Cryx threat forced them and Khador into a EnemyMine. Furthermore, the fluff now has better reasons for all the factions to be fighting one another rather than all of them just ganging up on Cygnar, between the Menite intervention in Llael and Goreshade's quest to find Nyssor.

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** Cryx gets this the most. With nasty units, and hard to counter abilities Cryx is the most dominate faction in competitive play. To the point that everyone must have a "normal" list, and an "anti-Cryx" list geared entirely towards fighting them.
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: Warmachine Mk II is a welcome update or a D&D 4th Edition level travesty depending on who you talk to.
** Negative opinion of Mk. II has gone ''WAY'' down since they released the officially finished rules, so you could call this case an aversion of the trope.

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** Cryx gets this the most. With cheap, nasty horde units, and hard to counter abilities abilities, and a "weakness" largely compensated by the design philosophy of the game, Cryx is the most dominate dominant faction in competitive play. To the point that everyone must have Many players actually come to tournaments with a "normal" list, and an "anti-Cryx" list geared entirely towards fighting them.
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: Warmachine Mk II is a welcome update or a D&D 4th Edition level travesty depending on who you talk to.
** Negative opinion The Legion of Mk. II has gone ''WAY'' down since they released Everblight, their ''Hordes'' counterpart, which ''also'' benefits disproportionately from the officially finished rules, so you could call this case an aversion game's aggression-friendly design philosophy. You ''know'' a faction's got problems when it's got some of the trope.best infantry in the game, but no one bothers taking them because their warbeasts are ''just that good''. Between Eyeless Sight allowing them to ignore half the rules in the game, an incredibly-strong ranged game, and some of the most powerful feats in the game, the only reason the Legion isn't more hated than Cryx is that it's not quite as popular.
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** Cryx gets this the most. With nasty units, and hard to counter abilities Cryx is the most dominate faction in competitive play. To the point that everyone must have a "normal" list, and an "anti-Cryx" list geared entirely towards fighting them.

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** Epic Asphyxious' feat had to be nerfed twice. Let that sink into you.

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** Epic Asphyxious' feat had to be nerfed twice. Let that sink into you.in.
** Epic Haley's amazing feat and strong spell list make her an extremely difficult opponent.
** The whole Cryx faction could be considered this, as many players bring a "normal" list and an "anti-Cryx" list to tournaments.


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* MemeticBadass: Some Retribution of Scyrah players refer to Garryth, Blade of Retribution as [[Advertising/TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld The Most Interesting Elf in the World]].
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Moving YMMV entries as the tooltip suggests


* TheWoobie: Subverted, You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.

to:

* TheWoobie: Subverted, You'd think Nayl would be one, considering he's a purely unemotional killer whose very existence is loathed by his people and who literally lacks a soul. But it seems he may be developing a personality, or at the very least understand the concept of Love, in terms of "Nayl Loves Learning How To Kill. Nayl Loves Killing More''. If he does develop a personality, all signs indicate that it's going to enjoy the constant carnage that defines his [[strike:life]] soulless existence.existence.
* TrueNeutral: All Reclaimers oddly.

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Added rewrite per cleanup thread.


* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army, so he can use it to aid in killing his children that are the only thing he sees as a threat.
** His children are just as bad as him, they all have the same goal of eating each other, and beyond that, their only aim is destruction. Everblight manages to give his old man a run for his money though, having turn the Nyss elves into a SlaveRace to serve as part of his army.

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, Toruk is the MonsterProgenitor of the dragon race, although he considers his progeny the only thing that might pose a threat to him and desires to [[OffingTheOffspring destroy them all]]. To accomplish this he becomes an OmnicidalManiac who against every other race. He turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army, so he can use it to aid in killing his children that are the only thing he sees as a threat.
** His children are just as bad as him, they all have the same goal of eating each other, and beyond that, their only aim is destruction. Everblight manages to give his old man a run for his money though, having turn the Nyss elves into a SlaveRace to serve as part of his
army.
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* MemeticMutation: Bordering on NeverLiveItDown; "Play like you got a pair!" has led to people referring to over-masculine, somewhat misogynist gameplay as "the Page 5 Attitude".
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* CrazyAwesome: And don't even get us started on the CrazyAwesome that goes into warjacks like the Deathjack or the Avatar of Menoth.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Lich Lord Malathrax. He's only appeared in stories that come with the books, and yet many are the fans who want him to have a model of him, or at the very least a picture of him so they can see what he looks like.

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* CrazyAwesome: And don't Don't even get us started on the CrazyAwesome that goes into warjacks like the Deathjack or the Avatar of Menoth.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: Lich Lord Malathrax. He's only appeared in stories that come with the books, and yet many are the fans who want him to have a model of him, model, or at the very least a picture of him so they can see what he looks like.
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** His children are just as bad as him, they all have the same goal of eating each other, and beyond that, they're only aim is destruction. Everblight manages to give his old man a run for his money though, having turn the Nyss elves into a SlaveRace to serve as part of his army.

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** His children are just as bad as him, they all have the same goal of eating each other, and beyond that, they're their only aim is destruction. Everblight manages to give his old man a run for his money though, having turn the Nyss elves into a SlaveRace to serve as part of his army.

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (Except the other dragons; he wants to eat those. And they are effectively his kids)

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army, so he can use it to aid in killing his children that are the only thing he sees as a threat.
** His children are just as bad as him, they all have the same goal of eating each other, and beyond that, they're only aim is destruction. Everblight manages to give his old man a run for his money though, having
turn the whole world Nyss elves into the undead. (Except the other dragons; he wants a SlaveRace to eat those. And they are effectively serve as part of his kids) army.


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** Turok, well, most anything involve Cryx has SOMEBODY crossing it, so even if it's not him, he's usually in part responsible for it.
** Orsus crossed it when he slaughtered a surrendering garrison along with his own men when they tried to talk him out of it. Pretty much the only reason he's still in the army is because the Empress keeps him there.
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** Epic Asphyxious' feat had to be nerfed twice. Let that sink into you.
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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (except the other dragons he wants to eat those. oh did we mention that they're effectivly his kids)

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (except (Except the other dragons dragons; he wants to eat those. oh did we mention that they're effectivly And they are effectively his kids)
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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (except the other dragons he wants to eat those. oh did we mention that there effectivly his kids)

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (except the other dragons he wants to eat those. oh did we mention that there they're effectivly his kids)
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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead.

to:

* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead. (except the other dragons he wants to eat those. oh did we mention that there effectivly his kids)
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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidialManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead.

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidialManiac OmnicidalManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead.
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** Of course, given Privateer's rather tongue-in-cheek attitude, many of these are [[GettingCrapPastTheRadar probably not accidental]].

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** Of course, given Given Privateer's rather tongue-in-cheek attitude, many of these are [[GettingCrapPastTheRadar probably not accidental]].



* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidialManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead, and pretty much entire Skorne faction.

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* CompleteMonster: Toruk, an OmnicidialManiac who wants to turn the whole world into the undead, and pretty much entire Skorne faction.undead.
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* * CanonSue: Haley gets this flak a lot from the fan base. Stryker used to be labelled until he went DarkerAndEdgier

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* * CanonSue: Haley gets this flak a lot from the fan base. Stryker used to be labelled until he went DarkerAndEdgier
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* * CanonSue: Haley gets this flak a lot from the fan base. Stryker used to be labelled until he went DarkerAndEdgier

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