History YMMV / FlowersInTheAttic

* ItWasHisSled: The only thing most people who haven't read the book know about it is that [[spoiler:it includes BrotherSisterIncest]].

** The entire [[spoiler: Chris and Cathy rape scene was one that was this already when it was written and has only gotten worse with more time. As described on page, Chris aggressively starts the encounter despite Cathy originally not reciprocating. Where this gets complicated is that as soon as it's over, Cathy claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to and continues on with Chris for more episodes within the series. To many a modern reader this is nothing but victim blaming with the NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization.]] Where the opposition to this comes from is because the two characters we are talking about aren't what most would call well adjusted or socially conforming. Cathy perhaps a little more so than Chris, but to some levels it applies to both. In the next book in the series some regard Cathy a DesignatedHero who does whatever she wants as long as she likes the results. From that perspective it is not hard to assume someone like Cathy wouldn't regard the incident as serious as some readers would, but those same readers would likely not call Cathy any kind of healthy role model.
*** It is '''not''' [[spoiler: NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. It hurts, and Cathy doesn't come. The books are very clear on this point, both at the time and after. When Cory is sick and Cathy is praying for him to get better, she says ''"And it wasn't any pleasure, God, not really, not any."'' And this is not retconned either; later books back this up. In the next book, they're making out when Chris is begging Cathy to let him fuck her, he says, "Let me just once give you the pleasure I didn't before, just once to last us both all our lives through." What is ''truly'' controversial about this scene is that it averts RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil. Rape happens, and it's bad, but it is not a crowning evil compared to other things.]]

** As cruel as she was did [[EvenEvilHasStandards Olivia approve of Corrine poisoning her children]]? As Cathy points out, she did warn them against eating the donuts and agreed with Cathy that Cory needed to go to a doctor. ThouShallNotKill, after all. However, it could have been Olivia trying to shut Cathy up. And there was really nothing stopping her from delivering the donuts, especially when Corrine leaves.

** Fans are split on whether the eventual BrotherSisterIncest could have actually happened due to the Westermack Effect.[[note]]While not an often brought up subject this is one that you can often find heavy debate within psychology and neurological fields. For trope purposes we will reference it, but a troper should not be surprised if they see someone from one of these fields not take the effect seriously. Let alone other people.[[/note]] Another area in this discussion is about the SituationalSexuality that was brought on by the fact that they're trapped together for so long.

** The movie compared to the 87 movie. Some endorse this movie for being more serious than the 87 film and not backing off of the taboo topics. Others feel that the original's narmy tone made it more memorable and despite not going into the taboo topics, had a more grim and edgy tone than the 2014 film.
* CompleteMonster:
** [[AbusiveParents Corrine Foxworth]] is a {{greed}}y mother who doesn’t care at all about her children. Before the story began, Corrine ran away from her parents to marry her uncle and later had children with him. When she later hears the news of her dying father's inheritance money, the now-penniless Corrine takes her children to her father’s mansion after her husband’s sudden death. Because the only way she can inherit her father’s money is if she never had any children that he knew of, Corrine conspires with her abusive mother, Olivia Foxworth, to hide the children by locking them in a room, forbidding them from ever leaving, and [[spoiler: slowly [[OffingTheOffspring killing them off]] by both feeding them only [[TamperingWithFoodAndDrink cookies laced with an arsenic sugar]], and simply starving them for months.]] While at the mansion, Corrine proceeds to [[SpoiledBrat indulge in her new lifestyle]], and later decides to marry a young lawyer, showing that she never really cared for her previous husband. When her youngest child, Cory, starts getting sick [[spoiler: from the cookies, Corrine feigns sadness and calls an ambulance. Instead, she disposes of Cory's body, hoping no one will find it. When her children manage to escape the attic and arrive at her new wedding, Corrine pretends that she doesn’t know them. Corrine is a horrible excuse of a mother fueled by greed and a desire to live a rich and luxurious life.]]
** The aforementioned [[EvilMatriarch Olivia Foxworth]] is a [[TheFundamentalist brutish religious fanatic]] who [[AbusiveParents tortures and abuses her grandchildren]] for whatever she perceives as "sinful." She [[ATasteOfTheLash whips her daughter]], Corrine, for running away with her husband’s brother, and locks her grandchildren up for being Corrine’s incestuous offspring. [[spoiler: She helps Corrine with her plan to kill the children by feeding them cookies with arsenic sugar every day until they start feeling sick, as well as starving them. She does this not for her husband's inheritance money, but to make them suffer.]] She’s particularly cruel to her grandchildren, Cathy and Chris: when she sees them sleeping together in a bed, she smashes Cathy’s music box right in front of her; when she catches them innocently bathing together, she proceeds to lock Chris in a closet and abuse Cathy, [[TraumaticHaircut chopping off a part of her hair]]. She then locks her grandchildren in the attic for months, which is far more cramped and unsafe to live in compared to their previous room. [[TheSociopath Sociopathic]] and cruel, Olivia proved to be just as evil as her daughter.

** [[AbusiveParents Corrine Foxworth]] is a {{greed}}y mother who doesn’t care at all about her children. Before the story began, Corrine ran away from her parents to marry her uncle and later had children with him. When she later hears the news of her dying father's inheritance money, the now-penniless Corrine takes her children to her father’s mansion after her husband’s sudden death. Because the only way she can inherit her father’s money is if she never had any children that he knew of, Corrine conspires with her abusive mother, Olivia Foxworth, to [[OffingTheOffspring kill her children]] by locking them in a room, forbidding them from ever leaving, and slowly killing them off by both feeding them only [[TamperingWithFoodAndDrink cookies laced with an arsenic sugar]], and simply starving them for months. While at the mansion, Corrine proceeds to [[SpoiledBrat indulge in her new lifestyle]], and later decides to marry a young lawyer, showing that she never really cared for her previous husband. When her youngest child, Cory, starts getting sick from the cookies, Corrine feigns sadness and calls an ambulance. Instead, she disposes of Cory's body, hoping no one will find it. When her children manage to escape the attic and arrive at her new wedding, Corrine pretends that she doesn’t know them. Corrine is a horrible excuse of a mother fueled by greed and a desire to live a rich and luscious life.
** The aforementioned [[EvilMatriarch Olivia Foxworth]] is a [[TheFundamentalist brutish religious fanatic]] who [[AbusiveParents tortures and abuses her grandchildren]] for whatever she perceives as "sinful." She [[ATasteOfTheLash whips her daughter]], Corrine, for running away with her husband’s brother, and locks her grandchildren up for being Corrine’s incestuous offspring. She helps Corrine with her plan to kill the children by feeding them cookies with arsenic sugar every day until they start feeling sick, as well as starving them. She does this not for her husband's inheritance money, but to make them suffer. She’s particularly cruel to her grandchildren, Cathy and Chris: when she sees them sleeping together in a bed, she smashes Cathy’s music box right in front of her; when she catches them innocently bathing together, she proceeds to lock Chris in a closet and abuse Cathy, [[TraumaticHaircut chopping off a part of her hair]]. She then locks her grandchildren in the attic for months, which is far more cramped and unsafe to live in compared to their previous room. [[TheSociopath Sociopathic]] and cruel, Olivia proved to be just as evil as her daughter.

** The entire Chris and Cathy rape scene was one that was this already when it was written and has only gotten worse with more time. As described on page, Chris aggressively starts the encounter despite Cathy originally not reciprocating. Where this gets complicated is that as soon as it's over, Cathy claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to and continues on with Chris for more episodes within the series. To many a modern reader this is nothing but victim blaming with the NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. Where the opposition to this comes from is because the two characters we are talking about aren't what most would call well adjusted or socially conforming. Cathy perhaps a little more so than Chris, but to some levels it applies to both. In the next book in the series some regard Cathy a DesignatedHero who does whatever she wants as long as she likes the results. From that perspective it is not hard to assume someone like Cathy wouldn't regard the incident as serious as some readers would, but those same readers would likely not call Cathy any kind of healthy role model.
*** It is '''not''' NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. It hurts, and Cathy doesn't come. The books are very clear on this point, both at the time and after. When Cory is sick and Cathy is praying for him to get better, she says ''"And it wasn't any pleasure, God, not really, not any."'' And this is not retconed either; later books back this up. In the next book, they're making out when Chris is begging Cathy to let him fuck her, he says, "Let me just once give you the pleasure I didn't before, just once to last us both all our lives through."\\
\\
What is ''truly'' controversial about this scene is that it averts RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil. Rape happens, and it's bad, but it is not a crowing evil amongst other things.

** As cruel as she was did [[EvenEvilHasStandards Olivia approve of Corrine poising her children]]? As Cathy points out she did warn them against eating the donuts and agreed with Cathy that Cory needed to go to a doctor. ThouShallNotKill, after all. However, it could have been Olivia trying to shut Cathy up. And there was really nothing stopping her from delivering the donuts, especially when Corrine leaves.

** The movie compared to the 87 movie. Some endorse this movie for being more serious than the 87 film and not backing off of the taboo topics. Others feel that the original's narmy tone made it more memorable and despite not going into the taboo topics, had a more grim and edgy tone than the 2014 film.

* AuthorsSavingThrow: For those who find [[spoiler: Chris being impossible to sympathize with after he rapes Cathy]], the TV movie changes it to consensual sex.

* {{Squick}}: For some, the incest is just too icky to get past.

** The entire Chris and Cathy rape scene was one that was this already when it was written and has only gotten worse with more time. As described on page, Chris aggressively starts the encounter despite Cathy originally not reciprocating. Where this gets complicated is that later Cathy claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to and continues on with Chris for more episodes within the series. To many a modern reader this is nothing but victim blaming with the NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. Where the opposition to this comes from is because the two characters we are talking about aren't what most would call well adjusted or socially conforming. Cathy perhaps a little more so than Chris but to some levels it applies to both. In the next book in the series some regard Cathy a DesignatedHero who does whatever she wants as long as she likes the results. From that perspective it is not hard to assume someone like Cathy wouldn't regard the incident as serious as some readers would, but those same readers would likely not call Cathy any kind of healthy role model.

** Given Corrine's actions in subsequent books, one could try to sympathize with her actions in the first. She essentially loses her husband and finds herself with four children to take care of - and she has ''no money''. She could have taken other options, but it seems as if she's trying to avoid her children being split up (and the foster system of the day wasn't exactly great). As we never get her POV, part of her actions could be due to Olivia's influence. And it's clear that Olivia is ''very'' persuasive. While it almost certainly doesn't justify [[spoiler: trying to poison her children]], it does paint her actions into a greyer light than first seems.
** On the flipside, it's also not hard to view Corrine as a superficial DramaQueen who never really loved her children. She's nice to them in the beginning because she has a life of leisure - with her husband paying for everything and children attending to her. But as soon as the luxuries are gone, she latches onto comfort rather than helping her children out. After all, there are plenty of valuables in Foxworth Hall that she could have stolen or sold off to get enough money to set herself and her children up. Her attempts at redemption could also be read as NeverMyFault.

* AuthorsSavingThrow: For those who find [[spoiler: Chris being impossible to sympathize with after he rapes Cathy]], the TV movie changes it to a consensual kiss and sex.

* CompleteMonster: From the 1987 film version.
** [[AbusiveParents Corrine Foxworth]] is a {{greed}}y mother who doesn’t care at all about her children. Before the story began, Corrine ran away from her parents to marry her uncle and later had children with him. When she later hears the news of her dying father's inheritance money, the now-penniless Corrine takes her children to her father’s mansion after her husband’s sudden death. Because the only way she can inherit her father’s money is if she never had any children that he knew of, Corrine conspires with her abusive mother, Olivia Foxworth, to [[OffingTheOffspring kill her children]] by locking them in a room, forbidding them from ever leaving, and slowly killing them off by both feeding them only [[TamperingWithFoodAndDrink cookies laced with an arsenic sugar]], and simply starving them for months. While at the mansion, Corrine proceeds to [[SpoiledBrat indulge in her new lifestyle]], and later decides to marry a young lawyer, showing that she never really cared for her previous husband. When her youngest child, Cory, starts getting sick from the cookies, Corrine feigns sadness and calls an ambulance. Instead, she disposes of Cory's body, hoping no one will find it. When her children manage to escape the attic and arrive at her new wedding, Corrine pretends that she doesn’t know them. Corrine is a horrible excuse of a mother fueled by greed and a desire to live a rich and luscious life.
** The aforementioned [[EvilMatriarch Olivia Foxworth]] is a [[TheFundamentalist brutish religious fanatic]] who [[AbusiveParents tortures and abuses her grandchildren]] for whatever she perceives as "sinful." She [[ATasteOfTheLash whips her daughter]], Corrine, for running away with her husband’s brother, and locks her grandchildren up for being Corrine’s incestuous offspring. She helps Corrine with her plan to kill the children by feeding them cookies with arsenic sugar every day until they start feeling sick, as well as starving them. She does this not for her husband's inheritance money, but to make them suffer. She’s particularly cruel to her grandchildren, Cathy and Chris: when she sees them sleeping together in a bed, she smashes Cathy’s music box right in front of her; when she catches them innocently bathing together, she proceeds to lock Chris in a closet and abuse Cathy, [[TraumaticHaircut chopping off a part of her hair]]. She then locks her grandchildren in the attic for months, which is far more cramped and unsafe to live in compared to their previous room. [[TheSociopath Sociopathic]] and cruel, Olivia proved to be just as evil as her daughter.

* {{Narm}}:
** The movie's ending is ''pure'' narm. ''"Go on. Eat it! EAT THE COOKIE!"''
** In the books the sheer number of revelations [[spoiler: regarding all the incest in the Foxworth family]] can become quite hilarious.
* SpecialEffectFailure: Kristy Swanson is quite obviously wearing a wig after Cathy's TraumaticHaircut at the hands of the grandmother.
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: A rare example of the filmmakers themselves feeling this towards [[spoiler: Corrine getting hung on her wedding day]]. The director refused to do it, so the studio had a second unit film the scene. Victoria Tennant also walked off the set, requiring a body double for the scene.

* ValuesDissonance: The movie ran into this when changing the setting. The book takes place in the 1950s, whereas the film is set when it was made (1986). The family is left destitute after Chris Sr, the sole breadwinner dies. Perfectly plausible in the 1950s, but odd in the 80s. Corrine being a housewife in the 80s is especially odd, even if she has four children. Also the AgeLift to make Chris and Cathy older makes one wonder why neither of them have after-school jobs or part-time work. Though being extremely wealthy often results in holding traditional values where it's seen as "unseemly" for women to work, especially in old-money families like the Foxworths. Growing up in that wealth almost definitely means that Cathy and Chris might not have thought about work aside from a vague "after I graduate high school" concept, because they just didn't need to.

* ArtisticLicenseLaw: The codicil in the grandfathers will most likely would not have stood up in probate court. All it would have taken was for Corrine to contest it, and she could have kept the money ''and'' the kids. (This, of course, assumes that she still ''wanted'' the kids.)

** Fans are split on whether the eventual BrotherSisterIncest could have actually happened due to the Westermack Effect.[[note]]While not an often brought up subject this is one that you can often find heavy debate within psychology and neurological fields. For trope purposes we will reference it, but a troper should not be surprised if they see someone from one of these fields not take the effect seriously.[[/note]] Some choose not to believe in the effect, while others suggest that the SituationalSexuality was brought on by the fact that they're trapped together for so long.
** The entire Chris and Cathy rape scene was one that was this already when it was written and has only gotten worse with more time. As described on page, Chris aggressively starts the encounter despite Cathy originally not reciprocating. Where this gets complicated is that later Cathy claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to and continues on with Chris for more episodes within the series. To many a modern reader this is nothing but victim blaming with the NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. The broken part is of course that our subjects here are two maladjusted and socially non-conforming individuals. In the next book in the series some regard Cathy a DesignatedHero and some levels of TheSociopath. From that perspective it is not hard to assume someone like Cathy wouldn't regard the incident as serious as some readers would, but those same readers would likely not call Cathy any kind of healthy role model.

* ValuesDissonance: The movie ran into this when changing the setting. The book takes place in the 1950s, whereas the film is set when it was made (1986). The family is left destitute after Chris Sr, the sole breadwinner dies. Perfectly plausible in the 1950s, but odd in the 80s. Corrine being a housewife in the 80s is especially odd, even if she has four children. Also the AgeLift to make Chris and Cathy older makes one wonder why neither of them have after-school jobs or part-time work.
** Being extremely wealthy often results in holding traditional values where it's seen as "unseemly" for women to work, especially in old-money families like the Foxworths. Growing up in that wealth almost definitely means that Cathy and Chris might not have thought about work aside from a vague "after I graduate high school" concept, because they just didn't need to.

** The entire Chris and Cathy rape scene was one that was this already when it was written and has only gotten worse with more time. As described on page, Chris aggressively starts the encounter despite Cathy originally not reciprocating. Where this gets complicated is that later Cathy claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to and continues on with Chris for more episodes within the series. To many a modern reader this is nothing but victim blaming with the NotIfTheyEnjoyedItRationalization. The broken part is of course that our subjects here are two were maladjusted and socially non-conforming individuals. In the next book in the series some regard Cathy a DesignatedHero and some levels of TheSociopath. From that perspective it is not hard to assume someone like Cathy wouldn't regard the incident as serious as some readers would, but those same readers would likely not call Cathy any kind of healthy role model.

** Fans are split on whether the eventual BrotherSisterIncest could have actually happened due to the Westermack Effect.[[note]]While not an often brought up subject this is one that some psychologists either believe in or dismiss entirely. Let alone what other people think.[[/note]] Some choose not to believe in the effect, while others suggest that the SituationalSexuality was brought on by the fact that they're trapped together for so long.
** There's also whether we can sympathize with Chris after [[spoiler: he rapes Cathy. She claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to, but many find that to be victim blaming more than anything else.]].

** Given Corrine's actions in subsequent books, one could try to sympathise with her actions in the first. She essentially loses her husband and finds herself with four children to take care of - and she has ''no money''. She could have taken other options, but it seems as if she's trying to avoid her children being split up (and the foster system of the day wasn't exactly great). As we never get her POV, part of her actions could be due to Olivia's influence. And it's clear that Olivia is ''very'' persuasive. While it almost certainly doesn't justify [[spoiler: trying to poison her children]], it does paint her actions into a greyer light than first seems.

** As cruel as she was did [[EvenEvilHasStandards Olivia approve of Corrine poising her children]]? As Cathy points out she did warn them against eating the donuts and agreed with Cathy that Cory needed to go to a doctor. "Thou shall not kill", after all. However, it could have been Olivia trying to shut Cathy up. And there was really nothing stopping her from delivering the donuts, especially when Corrine leaves.
** Did the grandfather actually know about the children? During the Christmas party it’s mentioned that he looks straight in Cathy and Chris’ direction. Did he actually see them? Or was he just staring in the direction they happened to be in.
* ArtisticLicenseLaw: The codicil in the grandfather's will most likely would not have stood up in probate court. All it would have taken was for Corrine to contest it, and she could have kept the money ''and'' the kids. (This of course assumes that she still ''wanted'' the kids.)

* ValuesDissonance: The movie ran into this when changing the setting. The book takes place in the 1950s, whereas the film is set when it was made (1986). The family is left destitute after Chris Sr, the sole breadwinner dies. Perfectly plausible in the 1950s, but odd in the 80s. Corrine being a housewife in the 80s is especially odd, even if she has four children. Also the AgeLift to make Chris and Cathy older makes one wonder why neither of them have after-school jobs or part time work.

** The aforementioned [[EvilMatriarch Olivia Foxworth]] is a [[TheFundamentalist brutish religious fanatic]] who [[AbusiveParents tortures and abuses her grandchildren]] for whatever she perceives as "sinful." She whips her daughter, Corrine, for running away with her husband’s brother, and locks her grandchildren up for being Corrine’s incestuous offspring. She helps Corrine with her plan to kill the children by feeding them cookies with arsenic sugar every day until they start feeling sick, as well as starving them. She does this not for her husband's inheritance money, but to make them suffer. She’s particularly cruel to her grandchildren, Cathy and Chris: when she sees them sleeping together in a bed, she smashes Cathy’s music box right in front of her; when she catches them innocently bathing together, she proceeds to lock Chris in a closet and abuse Cathy, [[TraumaticHaircut chopping off a part of her hair]]. She then locks her grandchildren in the attic for months, which is far more cramped and unsafe to live in compared to their previous room. [[TheSociopath Sociopathic]] and cruel, Olivia proved to be just as evil as her daughter.

** The aforementioned [[EvilMatriarch Olivia Foxworth]] is a [[TheFundamentalist brutish religious fanatic]] who [[AbusiveParents tortures and abuses her grandchildren]] for whatever she perceives as "sinful." She whips her daughter, Corrine, for running away with her husband’s brother, and locks her grandchildren up for being Corrine’s incestuous offspring. She helps Corrine with her plan to kill the children by feeding them cookies with arsenic sugar every day until they start feeling sick, as well as starving them. She does this not for her husband's inheritance money, but to make them suffer. She’s particularly cruel to her grandchildren, Cathy and Chris: when she sees them sleeping together in a bed, she smashes Cathy’s music box right in front of her; when she catches them innocently bathing together, she proceeds to lock Chris in a closet and abuse Cathy, chopping off a part of her hair. She then locks her grandchildren in the attic for months, which is far more cramped and unsafe to live in compared to their previous room. Sociopathic and cruel, Olivia proved to be just as evil as her daughter.

** There's also whether we can sympathize with Chris after [[spoiler: he rapes Cathy. She claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to, but many find that to be victim blaming more than anything else. So it's up in the air whether Chris being a teenager who's gone through hell justifies the rape or not]].

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation:

* AuthorsSavingThrow: For those who find [[spoiler: Chris being impossible to sympathise with after he rapes Cathy]], the TV movie changes it to a consensual kiss and sex.

** Fans are split on whether the eventual BrotherSisterIncest could have actually happened due to the Westermack Effect. Some choose not to believe in the effect, while others suggest that the SituationalSexuality was brought on by the fact that they're trapped together for so long.
** There's also whether we can sympathise with Chris after [[spoiler: he rapes Cathy. She claims she could have stopped him if she wanted to, but many find that to be victim blaming more than anything else. So it's up in the air whether Chris being a teenager who's gone through hell justifies the rape or not]].

* ValuesDissonance: The movie ran into this when changing the setting. The book takes place in the 1950s, whereas the film is set when it was made (1986). The family is left destitute after Chris Sr, the sole breadwinner dies. Perfectly plausible in the 1950s, but odd in the 80s. Corrine being a housewife in the 80s is especially odd, even if she has four children. Also the AgeLift to make Chris and Cathy older makes one wonder why neither of them have after-school jobs or part time work.

* ArtisticLicenseBiology: [[spoiler: Long-term close confinement during adolescence would have made Cathy and Chris even ''less'' likely to be sexually attracted to one another, due to the Westermarck effect.]]
** This is a YMMV in that some believe the Westermarck effect to be artistic license of biology in itself.
** [[spoiler: SituationalSexuality. It's not like there are many other non-incest options around.]]

* CriticalResearchFailure / ScienceMarchesOn: [[spoiler: Even in view of their twisted horrific circumstances, the Westermarck Effect would surely have prevented Chris and Cathy from having any interest in each other. Corrine and Christopher Sr.'s incestuous relationship makes sense only because they were raised apart from each other and therefore could not develop the reversed sexual imprinting that typically prevents such incestuous desires from developing in the first place. While Westermarck's research was not widely known or confirmed at the time of this book's publishing, there was already plenty of historical anecdotal evidence for this natural phenomenon underlying the incest taboo.]]
** One counterargument to this might also be the (arguable) increase in each other's perceived sexual attractiveness brought on by the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_attraction#Social_and_biological_factors stress]] of their situation.
** The other being the argument against the Westermarck effect in general, which not everyone agrees to be accurate on sexual attraction. See above on artistic license.
** [[spoiler: There's also sheer evolutionary instinct due to Cathy and Chris effectively becoming Cory and Carrie's parents. They see each other as the twin's mother and father... subtext to this is that this leads to them seeing each other as ''mates''.]]

* {{Narm}}: The movie version is ''pure'' narm. ''"Go on. Eat it! EAT THE COOKIE!"''

* CompleteMonster