Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / DoctorWhoS34E11DarkWater

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AscendedFanon: This is the first time within the TV canon that a Time Lord has changed sex during regeneration, confirming a long-helf belief in the fandom.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Up To Eleven is a defunct trope


** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (at least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Series 1, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked [[UpToEleven up to Twelve]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.

to:

** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (at least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Series 1, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked [[UpToEleven up to Twelve]], twelve, has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.

Added: 132

Changed: 382

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ShockingMoments: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.

to:

* OlderThanTheyThink: A female incarnation of the Master was previously envisioned as the plot twist to [[Recap/DoctorWhoS16E2ThePiratePlanet "The Pirate Planet"]] in 1978, before ultimately being rejected due to Creator/GrahamWilliams wanting to reduce the presence of Time Lords other than the Doctor and Romana.
* ShockingMoments: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.understatement.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Foe Yay has been cut


* FoeYay: The tension between the Doctor and the Master has never been so explicit.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by Missy) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story. It also triggered a rare re-rating of the episode that resulted in the DVD release of the entire season being delayed.

to:

** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was ultimately turns out to be a scam perpetrated by Missy) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story. It also triggered a rare re-rating of the episode that resulted in the DVD release of the entire season being delayed. It's hotly contested among the fandom whether or not the horror was worth such an extreme reaction, considering that other nightmarish episodes like "The Empty Child" and "Blink" got through unscathed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HolyShitQuotient: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.
* MemeticMutation: The phrase "Danny Pink didn't Splink" became a rather popular way to jokingly describe Danny's unceremoniously sudden death in this episode, based on [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1UiNZ3G4Y this]] 1976 road safety PSA starring former Third Doctor Creator/JonPertwee.

to:

* HolyShitQuotient: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.
* MemeticMutation: The phrase "Danny Pink didn't Splink" became a rather popular way to jokingly describe Danny's unceremoniously sudden death in this episode, based on [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1UiNZ3G4Y this]] 1976 road safety PSA starring former Third Doctor Creator/JonPertwee.Creator/JonPertwee.
* ShockingMoments: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* CaptainObviousReveal: Missy is the Master.
-->'''The Doctor:''' Who are you?\\
'''Missy:''' Oh, you know who I am. I'm Missy.\\
'''The Doctor:''' Who's Missy?\\
'''Missy:''' Please, try to keep up. Short for Mistress. Well, I couldn't very well keep calling myself the Master, now could I?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Creator/PeterCapaldi played a part in a TearJerker music video by Creator/LewisCapaldi. His character is a man whose wife died and became a heart donor. The saved woman meets the Peter's character, grabs his hand and presses it against her scar. What do whovians think while watching the video? "Doctor Chaaaang!".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HolyShitQuotient: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.

to:

* HolyShitQuotient: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.understatement.
* MemeticMutation: The phrase "Danny Pink didn't Splink" became a rather popular way to jokingly describe Danny's unceremoniously sudden death in this episode, based on [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1UiNZ3G4Y this]] 1976 road safety PSA starring former Third Doctor Creator/JonPertwee.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** On Clara's post-it-note RoomFullOfCrazy (to remind her to tell Danny the whole truth), there are suspiciously focused shots on "Maisie" and "Jenny", both of whom she's flirted with in season eight episodes.

to:

** On Clara's post-it-note RoomFullOfCrazy (to remind her to tell Danny the whole truth), there are suspiciously focused shots on "Maisie" and "Jenny", both of whom she's flirted with in season eight episodes.episodes.
* HolyShitQuotient: To say that TheReveal of Missy's true identity sent shockwaves through the fandom would be an understatement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
needs citations


** On Clara's post-it-note RoomFullOfCrazy (to remind her to tell Danny the whole truth), there are suspiciously focused shots on "Maisie" and "Jenny", both of whom she's flirted with in season eight episodes.
%%* UnfortunateImplications: Though there has always been a certain amount of emotional tension between the Doctor and the Master, in this case it's been made explicit, direct, and physical. Missy even referred to the Doctor as her "boyfriend" previously. All of this unfortunately suggests that it's only okay for the Master to show open interest in the Doctor if they're of different sexes.
%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify moments where the Master's interest in the Doctor is undisguised dating back to 1971, and certainly in the John Simm episodes.

to:

** On Clara's post-it-note RoomFullOfCrazy (to remind her to tell Danny the whole truth), there are suspiciously focused shots on "Maisie" and "Jenny", both of whom she's flirted with in season eight episodes.
%%* UnfortunateImplications: Though there has always been a certain amount of emotional tension between the Doctor and the Master, in this case it's been made explicit, direct, and physical. Missy even referred to the Doctor as her "boyfriend" previously. All of this unfortunately suggests that it's only okay for the Master to show open interest in the Doctor if they're of different sexes.
%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify moments where the Master's interest in the Doctor is undisguised dating back to 1971, and certainly in the John Simm
episodes.

Changed: 29

Removed: 82

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** According to the actors, when the reveal scene was shot in a public place, Gomez was in fact instructed to say she was the Rani in order to throw off any lip-readers in the crowd (the real line was added in post-production combined with a close-up where Gomez was instructed to "mouth" the dialogue without actually saying it. This obviously doesn't apply to close-ups where Gomez clearly say "the Master" on camera.)
** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story. It also triggered a rare re-rating of the episode that resulted in the DVD release of the entire season being delayed.
** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked [[UpToEleven up to Twelve]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.

to:

*** According to the actors, when the reveal scene was shot in a public place, Gomez was in fact instructed to say she was the Rani in order to throw off any lip-readers in the crowd (the real line was added in post-production combined with a close-up where Gomez was instructed to "mouth" the dialogue without actually saying it. This obviously doesn't apply to close-ups where Gomez clearly say said "the Master" on camera.)
** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) Missy) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story. It also triggered a rare re-rating of the episode that resulted in the DVD release of the entire season being delayed.
** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At (at least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, Series 1, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked [[UpToEleven up to Twelve]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.



%% * CrowningMomentsOfHeartwarming go on their own page - Heartwarming/DoctorWho.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, [[spoiler: the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked UpToEleven]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.

to:

** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, [[spoiler: the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked UpToEleven]], [[UpToEleven up to Twelve]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** ShipToShipCombat continued between those loyal to the Danny and Clara ship and Twelve and Clara and ramped up due to the events of this episode. Not helped by Steven Moffat's WordOfGod confirmation that the Doctor's statement to Clara, "Do you think I care so little for you that betraying me would make a difference" was a LoveConfession.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** According to the actors, when the reveal scene was shot in a public place, Gomez was in fact instructed to say she was the Rani in order to throw off any lip-readers in the crowd (the real line was added in post-production combined with a close-up where Gomez was instructed to "mouth" the dialogue without actually saying it.)

to:

*** According to the actors, when the reveal scene was shot in a public place, Gomez was in fact instructed to say she was the Rani in order to throw off any lip-readers in the crowd (the real line was added in post-production combined with a close-up where Gomez was instructed to "mouth" the dialogue without actually saying it. This obviously doesn't apply to close-ups where Gomez clearly say "the Master" on camera.)



** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it.

to:

** Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it. The events surrounding the Series 9 finale (in particular, [[spoiler: the Doctor executing a variation of what Clara attempted, only cranked UpToEleven]], has led to this being seen as one part of a bookend for the characters.



%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify moments where the Master's interest in the Doctor is undisguised dating back to 1971, and certainly in the John Simm episodes.

to:

%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify moments where the Master's interest in the Doctor is undisguised dating back to 1971, and certainly in the John Simm episodes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify HoYay moments dating back to the character's introduction in 1971.

to:

%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify HoYay moments where the Master's interest in the Doctor is undisguised dating back to 1971, and certainly in the character's introduction in 1971.John Simm episodes.

Added: 592

Changed: 470

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** A variant of this being fans who wanted Creator/JohnSimm to return as the Master.



** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story.

to:

*** According to the actors, when the reveal scene was shot in a public place, Gomez was in fact instructed to say she was the Rani in order to throw off any lip-readers in the crowd (the real line was added in post-production combined with a close-up where Gomez was instructed to "mouth" the dialogue without actually saying it.)
** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story. It also triggered a rare re-rating of the episode that resulted in the DVD release of the entire season being delayed.


Added DiffLines:

%%** On the other hand, however, there are fans who have been able to identify HoYay moments dating back to the character's introduction in 1971.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** And a third group who wanted Missy to be The Rani (she is the most common Classic series villain brought up when it comes to returning villains) or someone new.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story.

to:

** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficently sufficiently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HoYay: A bizarre variation involving a GenderBender with the Master, who has been male in numerous incarnations but now goes all-out in a female body. Said female body also tries to kiss Clara, who sadly refuses.
** Not entirely out of character for the Master, who has had a HoYay-esque relationship with the Doctor since his introduction.

to:

* HoYay: HoYay:
**
A bizarre variation involving a GenderBender with the Master, who has been male in numerous incarnations but now goes all-out in a female body. Said female body also tries to kiss Clara, who sadly refuses.
**
refuses. Not entirely out of character for the Master, who has had a HoYay-esque relationship with the Doctor since his introduction.

Changed: 2273

Removed: 1105

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreaker: Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it.
** And then there's the matter of the Master's sex-change. See below.
* BrokenBase: This episode could be considered the archetype for this trope, given the fan reaction to Missy actually being a female incarnation of the Master, exploding the debate over whether the Doctor should someday be played by a woman. Although the producers have frequently lied about future plans for the series many times before (with Steven Moffat openly stating that this is his modus operandi), some fans have seen this as the last straw. Meanwhile, a huge contingent of fans acclaimed the episode, loved the twist, and felt all was right with the world. Additionally, there are arguments over sexual orientation representation, with some fans viewing it as homophobic that the Master is only allowed to kiss the Doctor when she's a woman, and others viewing it as progressive treatment of Gallifreyan gender ambiguity.

to:

* BaseBreaker: Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it.
BrokenBase:
** And then there's the matter of the Master's sex-change. See below.
* BrokenBase:
This episode could be considered the archetype for this trope, given the fan reaction to Missy actually being a female incarnation of the Master, exploding the debate over whether the Doctor should someday be played by a woman. Although the producers have frequently lied about future plans for the series many times before (with Steven Moffat openly stating that this is his modus operandi), some fans have seen this as the last straw. Meanwhile, a huge contingent of fans acclaimed the episode, loved the twist, and felt all was right with the world. Additionally, there are arguments over sexual orientation representation, with some fans viewing it as homophobic that the Master is only allowed to kiss the Doctor when she's a woman, and others viewing it as progressive treatment of Gallifreyan gender ambiguity.



* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Clara monumentally fails the SecretTestOfCharacter. The Doctor tells her ''just'' how badly she screwed the pooch and even appears to tell her to "go to hell" (possibly genuinely before changing his mind). And then he says "Do you think that I care so little for you that betraying me would make a difference?" ''Especially'' coming from the Doctor whose bedside manner is [[KnightInSourArmor seriously lacking]], that's a hell of a declaration of friendship. And on top of it all, he's then willing to attempt to take the TARDIS into the afterlife for her.
** ''Then'' there's the SomethingOnlyTheyWouldSay moment with Danny. ''First'' there's how much Clara wants to be with him... and then there's Danny deliberately failing it since he thinks he's dead, so if she'd ''really'' do literally ''anything'' to be with him, that means suicide.
*** Though [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation it could actually be]] that the Nethersphere was deliberately suppressing parts of Danny's memory to make sure he failed, and thus [[DespairEventHorizon sufficiently amenable]] towards deleting his own memories for Cyberization.

to:

* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Clara monumentally fails the SecretTestOfCharacter. The Doctor tells her ''just'' how badly she screwed the pooch and even appears ** Clara's attempt to tell her to "go to hell" (possibly genuinely before changing his mind). And then he says "Do you think that I care so little for you that betraying me would make a difference?" ''Especially'' coming from blackmail the Doctor whose bedside manner is [[KnightInSourArmor seriously lacking]], that's a hell into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of a declaration of friendship. And on top of it all, he's then Clara for being childish enough to be willing to attempt to take destroy the TARDIS into the afterlife for her.
** ''Then'' there's the SomethingOnlyTheyWouldSay moment with Danny. ''First'' there's how much Clara wants to be with him... and then there's
keys (At least, in her head) over Danny deliberately failing it since he thinks he's dead, so if she'd ''really'' do literally ''anything'' to be with him, that means suicide.
*** Though [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation it could actually be]] that the Nethersphere
(As was deliberately suppressing parts of Danny's memory to make sure he failed, proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and thus [[DespairEventHorizon sufficiently amenable]] towards deleting his Clara's relationship and loved it.
%% * CrowningMomentsOfHeartwarming go on their
own memories for Cyberization.page - Heartwarming/DoctorWho.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV


* DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale: Not rape, but Missy's extended, forced kiss of the Doctor (and subsequently holding his hand over her bosom) could still very much be classified as sexual assault. The dialogue seems to suggest that it was written for laughs, though the actors succeed in mostly mitigating that and playing it as appropriately disturbing.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story.

to:

* ** The plot points concerning the dead still being conscious (even though this was a scam perpetrated by the Master) were sufficently disturbing to enough of the audience that the BBC actually had to issue a press release defending the story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There's also the debate over whether the Master should have come back at all, given his highly rousing exit in his last appearance that easily could have stood as his permanent departure from the show.

to:

** There's also the debate over whether the Master should have come back at all, given his highly rousing exit in his last previous appearance that easily could have stood as his permanent departure from the show.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
That\'s a lot like people who want a regeneration to be Tennant again, it doesn\'t work like that.


*** Or, if the character were to come back, that he be played by Creator/JohnSimm again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** And then there's the matter of the Master's sex-change. See below.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Or, if the character were to come back, that he be played by Creator/JohnSimm again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* BaseBreaker: Clara's attempt to blackmail the Doctor into saving Danny. For many, this was the final straw and many stated their dislike of Clara for being childish enough to be willing to destroy the TARDIS keys (At least, in her head) over Danny (As was proven in Nine's season, '''this should never be done'''). Others, meanwhile, felt it greatly expanded on Twelve and Clara's relationship and loved it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale: Not rape, but Missy's extended, forced kiss of the Doctor could still very much be classified as sexual assault. The dialogue seems to suggest that it was written for laughs, though the actors succeed in mostly mitigating that and playing it as appropriately disturbing.

to:

* DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale: Not rape, but Missy's extended, forced kiss of the Doctor (and subsequently holding his hand over her bosom) could still very much be classified as sexual assault. The dialogue seems to suggest that it was written for laughs, though the actors succeed in mostly mitigating that and playing it as appropriately disturbing.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale: Not rape, but Missy's extended, forced kiss of the Doctor could still very much be classified as sexual assault. The dialogue seems to suggest that it was written for laughs, though the actors succeed in mostly mitigating that and playing it as appropriately disturbing.

Top