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** For Hedonists, the Brave New World society isn't seen as bad as moralists see it. The contention there is it's dystopian because the values that went into it clearly weren't written by a hedonist. But the option of going some place with no rules whatsoever if you don't like the city's brand of it comes off as a completely acceptable option.


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** For Hedonists Brave New World has undergone a transition from misguided to a better alternative in comparison to the heavy moralist worldview being pushed by social reformers. Though a good chunk of the people saying this would probably pick the reservations over the city.
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* AccidentalAesop: Respect your partner's desires in a relationship and if you can't understand them, rip the bandaid off and break up before it gets serious. John tells Lenina he wants their bond to have meaning, which is why he doesn't want to just sleep with her. She doesn't listen and keeps pressuring him. Tragedy ensues.


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* WhatAnIdiot:
** Mond not sending John to an island, as he requests, because he wants to see if John can survive in this utopia as an anomaly who belongs nowhere. It eventually leads to John's suicide.
** John violently spurned Lenina for wanting to have sex with him without earning it; he said he wanted to win her over fairly, so their relationship would mean something. So what does she do? Seeks him out in exile with a bunch of other pleasure seekers after John has chosen self-exile. John has a whip, and a tendency to beat up anyone encroaching on his penance. He not only whips her into a quivering blob, but starts a riot among the others.
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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour''. Not only is the book more focused on building the setting than plot or characters, that setting features extreme sexuality, even between minors. An accurate adaptation would verge on vanilla pornography, if not worse. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both with large changes to plot and characters) and a series adaptation on NBC's Peacock streaming service.

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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour''. than ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'' and other famous dystopian novels. Not only is the book more focused on building the setting than on plot or characters, but that setting also features extreme sexuality, even between minors. An accurate adaptation would verge on vanilla pornography, if not worse. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both with large changes to plot and characters) and a series adaptation on NBC's Peacock streaming service.



* ValuesResonance: One of the newer printings says this on the back cover.

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* ValuesResonance: One of the newer printings says this on the back cover.cover, and Huxley himself constantly championed the book's increasing relevance in interviews conducted near the end of his life.
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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both of which made large changes to the story and characters) and a 2020 TV series adaptation broadcast on NBC's Peacock streaming service.

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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour''. Not only is the book only amplifies this. Even though more focused on building the book depicts setting than plot or characters, that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it setting features extreme sexuality, even between minors. An accurate adaptation would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious. verge on vanilla pornography, if not worse. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both of which made with large changes to the story plot and characters) and a 2020 TV series adaptation broadcast on NBC's Peacock streaming service.
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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both of which made large changes to the story and characters) and a 2020 TV series adaptation to be broadcast on NBC's Peacock streaming service.

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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both of which made large changes to the story and characters) and a 2020 TV series adaptation to be broadcast on NBC's Peacock streaming service.
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* TimeMarchesOn: John's views of extramarital sex seem antiquated to later generations, and his views of Brave New World's sexual mores have transformed somewhat from OnlySaneMan to a more personally-oriented FreudianExcuse as the source of his horror and revulsion of Lenina's propositioning him for sex.

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* TimeMarchesOn: John's views of extramarital sex seem antiquated to later generations, after it has been destigmatized several decades later, and his views of the Brave New World's sexual mores have transformed somewhat from OnlySaneMan to a more personally-oriented FreudianExcuse as the source of his horror and revulsion of Lenina's propositioning him for sex.
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* TimeMarchesOn: John's views of extramarital sex seem antiquated to later generations, and his views of Brave New World's sexual mores have transformed somewhat from OnlySaneMan to a more personally-oriented FreudianExcuse as the source of his horror and revulsion of Lenina's propositioning him for sex.
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* JerkassWoobie: Bernard wants so desperately to fit in to his happy, carefree society, and can't figure out why he is not happy doing the things that seem to make other men happy. He turns into somewhat of a jackass (by real world standards) once he gets a taste of popularity, but he can't entirely be faulted for trying to follow the shallow rules and values deemed important in his world.

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* JerkassWoobie: Bernard wants so desperately to fit in to with his happy, carefree society, and can't figure out why he is not happy doing the things that seem to make other men happy. He turns into somewhat of a jackass (by real world standards) once he gets a taste of popularity, but he can't entirely be faulted for trying to follow the shallow rules and values deemed important in his world.
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** For those that are more inclined not to view the ''Brave New World'' as villainous, the book provides an excellent speculative example of culture shock.

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** For those that are more inclined not to view the ''Brave New World'' as villainous, the book provides an excellent speculative example of culture shock.shock or how good intentions can lead to harm.
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The more negative reviews of the 2020 TV series adaptation generally hold this view, as the book has inspired so many other dystopian works that the series doesn't feel like anything new.

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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: ClicheStorm: The more negative reviews of the 2020 TV series adaptation generally hold this view, as the book has inspired so many other dystopian works that the series doesn't feel like anything new.
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* JerkassWoobie: Bernard wants so desperately to fit in to his happy, carefree society, and can't figure out why he is not happy doing the things that seem to make other men happy. He turns into somewhat of a jackass (by real world standards) once he gets a taste of popularity, but he can't really be faulted for trying to follow the shallow rules and values that he has been taught are important.

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* JerkassWoobie: Bernard wants so desperately to fit in to his happy, carefree society, and can't figure out why he is not happy doing the things that seem to make other men happy. He turns into somewhat of a jackass (by real world standards) once he gets a taste of popularity, but he can't really entirely be faulted for trying to follow the shallow rules and values that he has been taught are important.deemed important in his world.
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*JerkassWoobie: Bernard wants so desperately to fit in to his happy, carefree society, and can't figure out why he is not happy doing the things that seem to make other men happy. He turns into somewhat of a jackass (by real world standards) once he gets a taste of popularity, but he can't really be faulted for trying to follow the shallow rules and values that he has been taught are important.
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** Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? Huxley would probably argue the former. [[DeathOfTheAuthor The real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.

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** Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? Huxley would probably argue the former. [[DeathOfTheAuthor The real answer]] is more likely [[InnocentlyInsensitive they aren't exploiting him intentionally, intentionally]], but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
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** Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? Huxley would probably argue the former [[DeathOfTheAuthor but the real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
** Part of the reason John [[spoiler: committed suicide]] seems to be not just that this world he has been introduced to is so horrible, but also the realization that he does not belong in it any more than he belonged in the reservation. He may have felt that there was no place where he could go and truly be himself without ridicule or pressure to conform.

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** Are **Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? world? Huxley would probably argue the former former. [[DeathOfTheAuthor but the The real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
** Part of the reason John [[spoiler: committed suicide]] seems to be not just that this world he has been introduced to is so horrible, but also the realization that he does not belong in it any more than he belonged in the reservation. He may have felt that there was no place where he could go and truly be himself without ridicule or pressure to conform.
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** Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? Huxley would probably argue the former [[DeathOfTheAuthor but the real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
** Part of the reason John [[spoiler: committed suicide]] seems to be not just that this world he has been introduced to is so horrible, but also the realization that he does not belong in it any more than he belonged in the reservation. He may have felt that there was no place where he could go and truly be himself without ridicule or pressure to conform.

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** Are **Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? world? Huxley would probably argue the former [[DeathOfTheAuthor but the real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
** Part of the reason John [[spoiler: committed suicide]] seems to be not just that this world he has been introduced to is so horrible, but also the realization that he does not belong in it any more than he belonged in the reservation. He may have felt that there was no place where he could go and truly be himself without ridicule or pressure to conform.



** For those that are more inclined not to view the Brave New World as villainous, the book provides an excellent speculative example of culture shock.

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** For those that are more inclined not to view the Brave ''Brave New World World'' as villainous, the book provides an excellent speculative example of culture shock. shock.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
**Are the Brave New Worlders exploiting John by parading him around like a rarity or are they showing their hospitality the only way they know how and trying to introduce him to the ways of their world? Huxley would probably argue the former [[DeathOfTheAuthor but the real answer]] is more likely they aren't exploiting him intentionally, but John (more or less rightfully) sees it that way because of his different cultural outlook.
** Part of the reason John [[spoiler: committed suicide]] seems to be not just that this world he has been introduced to is so horrible, but also the realization that he does not belong in it any more than he belonged in the reservation. He may have felt that there was no place where he could go and truly be himself without ridicule or pressure to conform.


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** For those that are more inclined not to view the Brave New World as villainous, the book provides an excellent speculative example of culture shock.

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!!For the book:



* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious.

to:

* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious. It did get two {{Made For TV Movie}}s (both of which made large changes to the story and characters) and a 2020 TV series adaptation to be broadcast on NBC's Peacock streaming service.



* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: The novel might have been written as a TakeThat against the excesses of 1920s hedonism.

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* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotDidactic: The novel might have been written as a TakeThat against [[TakeThat criticism]] of the excesses and the hedonism of 1920s hedonism.TheRoaringTwenties.


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!!For the 2020 adaptation:
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: The more negative reviews of the 2020 TV series adaptation generally hold this view, as the book has inspired so many other dystopian works that the series doesn't feel like anything new.
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* HardToAdaptWork: This book has traditionally been regarded as far more difficult to adapt than, say, ''Literature/NineteenEightyFour'', due to its plot being much less straightforward than traditional dystopian novels like Orwell's and due to its heavy use of gratuitous sex as a part of the novel's setting. It'd be immensely difficult to accurately portray this without it getting branded as pornography-- which would make it far more difficult to distribute-- and the fact that ''children'' are depicted as freely engaging in sexual activity and intercourse in the book only amplifies this. Even though the book depicts that last part as something for the reader to feel disgusted by, trying to actually depict it would be impossible for reasons that should be obvious.
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Repair Dont Respond and not YMMV


* PlotHole: Lenina is a Beta, and in one scene she even looks down on a group of Gammas while thinking how glad she is not to be one of them. But in every scene in which her clothing is described, she wears green, a color that is assigned to Gammas (it's even referred to as "gamma green"). Betas wear violet.
** "gamma green" is khaki or olive, while Lenina is a fertile fashionista who buys a new malthus pompom every three months.
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**"gamma green" is khaki or olive, while Lenina is a fertile fashionista who buys a new malthus pompom every three months.
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Subpage split


!! '''The novel:'''




!! '''The Fanfic:'''

* ArcFatigue: The Enchanted Express arc went on for several hundred thousand words and over a year - and even the author eventually admitted that "the saga of the Excess Express" dragged on for longer than expected.
* EndingFatigue: It's 2.4 million words long, with the end nowhere in sight.
* FakeLongevity: A curious, non-video game example. Yes, it's almost two and a half million words long, but a ''considerable'' amount of it can be skipped without any major loss of plot details. Transformation scenes abound, the [[OverlyLongGag overly long gags]] go on long enough that it makes ''Tarantulas'' sympathetic when he gets sick of hearing them, and several plots barely qualify for even tangential relevance. Chapter 66 shows this - it's 76,000 words of Nihilators dying, but with scarcely a mention of Team Aurabolt or Oblivion's Shadow.
* HilariousInHindsight: All of the events in ''Franchise/PokemonMysteryDungeon'' occuring in one continuity instead of AlternateUniverse? [[VideoGame/PokemonSuperMysteryDungeon A crazy idea that only occurs in fanfics, I say!]]
* KudzuPlot: To almost ludicrous levels. The story starts with Team Aurabolt and the quest for the seven Star Badges. Meanwhile, fifty chapters down the line, we see Caserin the Luvdisc, [[Franchise/SamAndMax Mack Salmon]], [[WesternAnimation/FindingNemo Bruce the Oztralian Sharpedo]] and some other characters of NominalImportance searching for the Aqua-Monica.
* MoralEventHorizon: Well, where do you ''start'' for the Nihilator high command...
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* PlotHole: Lenina is a Beta, and in one scene she even looks down on a group of Gammas while thinking how glad she is not to be one of them. But in every scene in which her clothing is described, she wears green, a color that is assigned to Gammas (it's even referred to as "gamma green"). Betas wear violet.
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* MoralEventHorizon: Well, where do you ''start'' for the Nihilator high command...

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* MoralEventHorizon: Well, where do you ''start'' for the Nihilator high command...command...
----

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* HilariousInHindsight: The worship of Henry Ford looks even sillier given the direction of his namesake company and the U.S. car industry as a whole.

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* HilariousInHindsight: HilariousInHindsight:
**
The worship of Henry Ford looks even sillier given the direction of his namesake company and the U.S. car industry as a whole.whole.
** The description of in-vitro fertilization years before the world's first test-tube baby was born.
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* HarsherInHindsight
** The viewpoint of the FreudWasRight perspective is scarily accurate considering today's viewpoint. Look no further than the FreudWasRight page and realize we had to make ''that'' page a YMMV page when it was originally considered a standard trope. Even look at the AllPsychologyIsFreudian page.
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*DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The sheer soul-crushing hopelessness of the story combined with the utter depravity of the CrapsackWorld it portrays has been known to cause severe bouts of depression in readers. In fact, the novel was chastised by critics for precisely this reason upon its initial publication in 1932.

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Not YMMV


* FalseDichotomy: Mustapha Mond's experiment in equality fails to be an argument against free will because the experiment seems to have been engineered to fail. The people involved in the experiment were Alphas. They not only had a high intelligence that made them efficient at intellectual work, they were conditioned '''all''' their prior life to be happy '''only''' with specific jobs. This ensured civil war, because they were literally brainwashed into being incapable of accepting the menial jobs they were shown. Yet no character points this out. If the experiment involved members of ''all'' castes, except without the caste system being enforced (allowing castes to interbreed, and take different jobs if they wanted to), or the citizens selected for the experiment were adults who were spared conditioning as children, the experiment could probably have succeeded. The "brilliant minds" who became disillusioned with society and were banished to the world's many islands to do as they please (alluded to at the book's end and explored in Huxley's ''Island'') certainly created what could very well be [[TakeAThirdOption a viable alternative]] to "civilization" (with its brainwashing and enforced caste system) and "savage" (poverty- and conflict-ridden) reservations. Thus the presented dilemma between pointless hedonism, civil war, and low-technology reservations, is a false one.

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* FalseDichotomy: Mustapha Mond's experiment in equality fails to be an argument against free will because the experiment seems to have been engineered to fail. The people involved in the experiment were Alphas. They not only had a high intelligence that made them efficient at intellectual work, they were conditioned '''all''' their prior life to be happy '''only''' with specific jobs. This ensured civil war, because they were literally brainwashed into being incapable of accepting the menial jobs they were shown. Yet no character points this out. If the experiment involved members of ''all'' castes, except without the caste system being enforced (allowing castes to interbreed, and take different jobs if they wanted to), or the citizens selected for the experiment were adults who were spared conditioning as children, the experiment could probably have succeeded. The "brilliant minds" who became disillusioned with society and were banished to the world's many islands to do as they please (alluded to at the book's end and explored in Huxley's ''Island'') certainly created what could very well be [[TakeAThirdOption a viable alternative]] to "civilization" (with its brainwashing and enforced caste system) and "savage" (poverty- and conflict-ridden) reservations. Thus the presented dilemma between pointless hedonism, civil war, and low-technology reservations, is a false one.
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* FalseDichotomy: Mustapha Mond's experiment on equality fails to be an argument against free will because the experiment seems to have been engineered to fail. The people involved in the experiment were Alphas. They not only had a high intelligence that made them efficient at intellectual work, they were conditioned '''all''' their prior life to be happy '''only''' with specific jobs. This ensured civil war, because they were literally brainwashed into being incapable of accepting the menial jobs they were shown. Yet no character points this out. If the experiment involved members of ''all'' castes, except without the caste system being enforced (allowing castes to interbreed, and take different jobs if they wanted to), or the citizens selected for the experiment were adults who were spared conditioning as children, the experiment could probably have succeeded. The "brilliant minds" who became disillusioned with society and were banished to the world's many islands to do as they please (alluded to at the book's end and explored in Huxley's ''Island'') certainly created what could very well be [[TakeAThirdOption a viable alternative]] to "civilization" (with its brainwashing and enforced caste system) and "savage" (poverty- and conflict-ridden) reservations. Thus the presented dilemma between pointless hedonism, civil war, and low-technology reservations, is a false one.

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* FalseDichotomy: Mustapha Mond's experiment on in equality fails to be an argument against free will because the experiment seems to have been engineered to fail. The people involved in the experiment were Alphas. They not only had a high intelligence that made them efficient at intellectual work, they were conditioned '''all''' their prior life to be happy '''only''' with specific jobs. This ensured civil war, because they were literally brainwashed into being incapable of accepting the menial jobs they were shown. Yet no character points this out. If the experiment involved members of ''all'' castes, except without the caste system being enforced (allowing castes to interbreed, and take different jobs if they wanted to), or the citizens selected for the experiment were adults who were spared conditioning as children, the experiment could probably have succeeded. The "brilliant minds" who became disillusioned with society and were banished to the world's many islands to do as they please (alluded to at the book's end and explored in Huxley's ''Island'') certainly created what could very well be [[TakeAThirdOption a viable alternative]] to "civilization" (with its brainwashing and enforced caste system) and "savage" (poverty- and conflict-ridden) reservations. Thus the presented dilemma between pointless hedonism, civil war, and low-technology reservations, is a false one.


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None of these are examples; bring any further contention to the cleanup thread.


* CompleteMonster: Oblivion's Shadow, the Pokemon who destroyed the world, and who wants to release the Ruler of Evil. [[spoiler: Until you realise that he's a WellIntentionedExtremist who's trying to 'kill it'', and that he was tricked into evil in the first place.]]
** Bellum, the psychopathic ice witch who was willing to sacrifice her own daughter's soul to Giratina.
** Doctor Tarantulas, who makes Josef Mengele look positively civilised - and his faithful friend and sidekick, Chobin, who is considered to be ''even worse''.
** In truth, the entire Nihilator organisation counts, considering they were recruited ''because'' of their horrific depravity.



* MoralEventHorizon: Well, where do you ''start'' for the Nihilator high command...

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* MoralEventHorizon: Well, where do you ''start'' for the Nihilator high command...

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