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Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Boromir to bring his shield with him when going to gather firewood, in case there's the off chance that the enemy could launch surprise attack and have protection against long range attacks.\\
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Boromir to bring his shield with him when going to gather firewood, in case there's the off chance that the enemy could launch a surprise attack and have protection against long range attacks.\\
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grammer corrections to a Two Towers example
Note: You may put both examples from both the books and PeterJackson's film adaptations.
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isildur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isildur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isildur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
to:
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isildur (without killing him, of course) and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isildur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isildur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
Changed line(s) 17,18 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': He leaves it behind at camp. And unfortunately, the Uruk Hai launch a surprise attack on the Fellowship and he doesn't even go back for his shield quickly, and when he tries to go save Merry and Pippin, he is left defenseless against Lurtz's bow and arrow attacks, and is killed from the arrows as a result of it.
to:
'''Instead''': He leaves it behind at camp. And unfortunately, the Uruk Hai launch a surprise attack on the Fellowship and he doesn't even go back for his shield quickly, and when he tries to go save Merry and Pippin, he is left defenseless against Lurtz's bow and arrow attacks, [[KilledOffForReal and is killed from the arrows as a result of it.
it]].
Changed line(s) 25,27 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Saruman without even trying to stop him.\\
'''Result''': Wormtongue tell Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children.
'''Result''': Wormtongue tell Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children.
to:
'''Instead''': When Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Saruman without even trying to stop him.\\
'''Result''': Wormtonguetell escapes tells Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children.
'''Result''': Wormtongue
* Faramir reports that tens of thousands of orcs have taken Osgiliath, which he and just a few tens of soldiers have survived thanks to Gandalf's intervention.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the king on important matters.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the the bellow WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the king on important matters.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the the bellow WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.
Deleted line(s) 33,35 (click to see context) :
* Just before that, Faramir reports that tens of thousands of orcs have taken Osgiliath, which he and just a few tens of soldiers have survived thanks to Gandalf's intervention.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the king on important matters.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the king on important matters.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.
Changed line(s) 37 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you end up helping your leader kill himself, you are left with no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "YoureInsane" and "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you end up helping your leader kill himself, you are left with no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
** Even worse, in [[Literature/ReturnOfTheKing the book]], one of the Guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the Guard who ''didn't''.
to:
** Even worse, in [[Literature/ReturnOfTheKing the book]], one of the Guard members of the guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the Guard guard who ''didn't''.
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The Ring\'s influence is at maximum power where it was forged. Sam couldn\'t have taken the Ring and cast it into the Crack anymore than Frodo could have. It would have corrupted him just as quickly.
Changed line(s) 26,27 (click to see context) from:
'''Result''': Wormtongue tell Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children. [[SarcasmMode Nice going, Aragorn]].
to:
'''Result''': Wormtongue tell Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children. [[SarcasmMode Nice going, Aragorn]].
children.
Changed line(s) 39,42 (click to see context) from:
** Even worse, in [[Literature/ReturnOfTheKing the book]], one of the Guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the Guard who ''didn't''.
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!
to:
** Even worse, in [[Literature/ReturnOfTheKing the book]], one of the Guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the Guard who ''didn't''.
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!''didn't''.
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!
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In the time it would take for them to get there, Gandalf had already fallen, and Orcs were on the other side and already shooting arrows at the Fellowship.
Changed line(s) 14,17 (click to see context) from:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isildur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* In the film version of ''Fellowship Of the Ring'', while our heroes are escaping the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. When Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
* In the film version of ''Fellowship Of the Ring'', while our heroes are escaping the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. When Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
to:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isildur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* In the film version of ''Fellowship Of the Ring'', while our heroes are escaping the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. When Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.Men.
* In the film version of ''Fellowship Of the Ring'', while our heroes are escaping the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. When Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
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Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
* When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his soldiers, "Bring me firewood."\\
to:
* When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his soldiers, "Bring me firewood.wood and oil."\\
Added DiffLines:
** Even worse, in [[Literature/ReturnOfTheKing the book]], one of the Guard (other than Pippin) ''did'' go against orders to save Faramir, though even ''he'' had to go up against several members of the Guard who ''didn't''.
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Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
to:
* When the Fellowship arrives at Amon Hen, Boromir leaves the camp to go get firewood.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Boromir to bring his shield with him when going to gather firewood, in case there's the off chance that the enemy could launch surprise attack and have protection against long range attacks.\\
'''Instead''': He leaves it behind at camp. And unfortunately, the Uruk Hai launch a surprise attack on the Fellowship and he doesn't even go back for his shield quickly, and when he tries to go save Merry and Pippin, he is left defenseless against Lurtz's bow and arrow attacks, and is killed from the arrows as a result of it.
'''You'd Expect''': Boromir to bring his shield with him when going to gather firewood, in case there's the off chance that the enemy could launch surprise attack and have protection against long range attacks.\\
'''Instead''': He leaves it behind at camp. And unfortunately, the Uruk Hai launch a surprise attack on the Fellowship and he doesn't even go back for his shield quickly, and when he tries to go save Merry and Pippin, he is left defenseless against Lurtz's bow and arrow attacks, and is killed from the arrows as a result of it.
Changed line(s) 24,26 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill or imprison Grima to stop him from returning to Saruman with vital information.\\
'''Instead''': Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Saruman and tell him exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
'''Instead''': Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Saruman and tell him exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill or imprison Grima Wormtongue to stop him from returning to Saruman with vital information.\\
'''Instead''': Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sarumanand without even trying to stop him.\\
'''Result''': Wormtongue tellhim Saruman exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more redshirt soldiers including children. [[SarcasmMode Nice going, Aragorn.
Aragorn]].
'''Instead''': Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Saruman
'''Result''': Wormtongue tell
Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect:''' Pippin or one of the other Gondor people in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, and have him recover, thus saving his life.\\
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other soldiers even question Denethor and his suicidal madness, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse on Faramir!
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other soldiers even question Denethor and his suicidal madness, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse on Faramir!
to:
'''You'd Expect:''' Pippin or one of the other Gondor people soldiers in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, or get him medicine, and have him recover, thus saving his life.life. And also, maybe lock Denethor up because he clearly lost his mind.\\
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he neededmedicine.medicine and leave his body unattended, and they don't get Denerthor away and put him somewhere where he wouldn't have access to Faramir's KO'd body. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other soldiers even question Denethor and his suicidal madness, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse on Faramir!
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed
Changed line(s) 37 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': They continue following Denethor's orders, despite that he's clearly lost his mind, and not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir! And they don't even listen to Pippin when he says that Faramir isn't dead before he's thrown out of the room by Denethor!
to:
'''Instead''': They continue following Denethor's orders, despite that he's clearly lost his mind, and not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir! And they don't even listen to Pippin when he says that Faramir isn't dead before he's thrown out of the room by Denethor!Denethor, or even go, "Sir, what if he's right [about Faramir not being dead]?"!
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!
* Not to mention at the Crack of Doom in Mordor where the Ring is supposed to be destroyed, Frodo stands there and is getting tempted by it.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Sam to take the Ring from Frodo and cast it into the fire. After all, he managed to carry the Ring to the fortress where Frodo was imprisoned earlier, and was affected enough, so he should try to drop instead of the now exhausted Frodo.\\
'''Instead''': He doesn't do it, expecting Frodo to drop it. Despite that he keeps telling him to drop the Ring into the fiery depths of Mt. Doom, Frodo ends up getting corrupted by the Ring and puts it on, gaining Sauron's attention. It's only by pure luck that after Gollum bites Frodo's finger off, and a struggle insuing between Frodo and Gollum, which results in Gollum plumetting to his demise with the Ring does it end up getting destroyed!
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Changed line(s) 22,24 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': Eomer follows the order to be exiled, which significantly decreases the Rohan army!
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saruman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.\\
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saruman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.\\
to:
'''Instead''': Eomer follows the order to be exiled, which significantly decreases the Rohan army!
army.
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saruman no longer has any powerof over Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill or imprison Grima to stop him from returning toSauroman Saruman with vital information.\\
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saruman no longer has any power
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill or imprison Grima to stop him from returning to
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Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saurman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
to:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Saurman Saruman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
Changed line(s) 25,26 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': Theodin goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman and tells him exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more of red shirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
to:
'''Instead''': Theodin Theoden goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman Saruman and tells tell him exactly where to attack and how, subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more of red shirt redshirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
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None
Changed line(s) 36 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you have no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you have end up helping your leader kill himself, you are left with no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
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None
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Sauroman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
to:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Sauroman Saurman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)\\
** Lampshaded by CinemaSins: "Let me get this straight, so after Gandalf knocked Denethor unconscious, no one decided to get Faramir medicine? They didn't just leave outside in the white tree court, did they?"
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.\\
to:
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.\\him.
* When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his soldiers, "Bring me firewood."\\
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you have no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
'''Instead''': They continue following Denethor's orders, despite that he's clearly lost his mind, and not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir! And they don't even listen to Pippin when he says that Faramir isn't dead before he's thrown out of the room by Denethor!
* When Denethor carries Faramir's unconscious body to the Tomb of the Stewards, to kill himself along with Faramir, he tells his soldiers, "Bring me firewood."\\
'''You'd Expect''': Denethor's soldiers to go, "ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight" and not help him kill himself since it's insane, especially if you have no leader. Either that, or check for a pulse on Faramir, confirm that he's alive, and not carry out the order.\\
'''Instead''': They continue following Denethor's orders, despite that he's clearly lost his mind, and not EVEN check for a pulse on Faramir! And they don't even listen to Pippin when he says that Faramir isn't dead before he's thrown out of the room by Denethor!
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Changed line(s) 25,26 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead''': Theodin goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman and tells him exactly where to attack and how, subsiquently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more lives of red shirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
to:
'''Instead''': Theodin goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman and tells him exactly where to attack and how, subsiquently subsequently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more lives of red shirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
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None
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Sauroman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.
to:
* Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Sauroman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)
steps)\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.\\
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Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
to:
*Not to mention after Theoden is back to normal, Sauroman no longer has any power of Rohan and Grima is thrown out of the court (literally, down the steps)
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.
'''Instead''': Theodin goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman and tells him exactly where to attack and how, subsiquently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more lives of red shirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
'''You'd Expect''': Them to kill Grima to stop him from returning to Sauroman with vital information.
'''Instead''': Theodin goes to kill him, but then Aragorn ''stops'' him, claiming "Enough blood has been spilled this day", letting Grima escape back to Sauroman and tells him exactly where to attack and how, subsiquently leading to the battle of Helms Deep, which killed hundreds more lives of red shirt soldiers including children. Nice going, Aragorn.
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Boromir leaves his shield behind while he picks up wood, then he clashes with Frodo and has a BSOD, then the Uruk Hai attack by surprise, he can\'t really go back and retrieve his shield.
Deleted line(s) 18,21 (click to see context) :
* Near the end of the movie, at Amon Hen, the Uruk-Hai attack the Fellowship, Merry and Pippin distract the Uruk Hai so that Frodo can escape. Boromir rushes to save Merry and Pippin.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you from long range (imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by Lurtz (the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow), and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you from long range (imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by Lurtz (the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow), and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
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None
Deleted line(s) 10,11 (click to see context) :
[[folder:The Original Novels]]
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
to:
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isildur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isildur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isildur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isildur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isildur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* In the film version of ''Fellowship Of the Ring'', while our heroes are escaping the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. When Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
* Near the end of the movie, at Amon Hen, the Uruk-Hai attack the Fellowship, Merry and Pippin distract the Uruk Hai so that Frodo can escape. Boromir rushes to save Merry and Pippin.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you from long range (imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by Lurtz (the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow), and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
to:
* During the events of the film, Saruman ends up taking control and weaking Theoden, the king of Rohan. He has Grima Wormtongue be his sinister advisor. At one point Eomer returns with Theoden's son dead. Grima sentences Eomer to be banished from the town.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Eomer to put Wormtongue's head on a pike and take temporary charge until they at least figure out what the heck is wrong with Theoden.\\
'''Instead''': Eomer follows the order to be exiled, which significantly decreases the Rohan army!
'''You'd Expect''': Eomer to put Wormtongue's head on a pike and take temporary charge until they at least figure out what the heck is wrong with Theoden.\\
'''Instead''': Eomer follows the order to be exiled, which significantly decreases the Rohan army!
Deleted line(s) 18,38 (click to see context) :
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The Peter Jackson Film Versions]]
[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]
* In Elrond's flash back in the first film, Elrond tells to Isildur to destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom, which he ends up saying [[LittleNo "No"]] since he was corrupted by the Ring. Isildur then starts to leave Mount Doom, while Elrond calls out his name, yelling, "ISILDUR!".\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isildur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isildur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isildur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isildur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isildur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* In the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
* Near the end of the movie, at Amon Hen, the Uruk-Hai attack the Fellowship, Merry and Pippin distract the Uruk Hai so that Frodo can escape. Boromir rushes to save Merry and Pippin.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you with a bow and arrow. (Imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow, and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
[[AC: The Two Towers]]
[[AC: The Return of the King]]
Changed line(s) 41 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!
to:
'''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys soldiers even question Denethor, Denethor and his suicidal madness, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!pulse on Faramir!
Changed line(s) 43,45 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the King on important matters.
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he angrily claims that Theoden has betrayed him.
[[/folder]]
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he angrily claims that Theoden has betrayed him.
[[/folder]]
to:
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the King king on important matters.
matters.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, heangrily claims depressingly thinks that Rohan has deserted Gondor and Theoden has betrayed him.
[[/folder]]him.\\
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he
[[/folder]]
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correcting misspelling
Changed line(s) 25,28 (click to see context) from:
* In Elrond's flash back in the first film, Elrond tells to Isuldur to destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom, which he ends up saying [[LittleNo "No"]] since he was corrupted by the Ring. Isuldur then starts to leave Mount Doom, while Elrond calls out his name, yelling, "ISULDUR!".\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
to:
* In Elrond's flash back in the first film, Elrond tells to Isuldur Isildur to destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom, which he ends up saying [[LittleNo "No"]] since he was corrupted by the Ring. Isuldur Isildur then starts to leave Mount Doom, while Elrond calls out his name, yelling, "ISULDUR!"."ISILDUR!".\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring fromIsuldur Isildur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur Isildur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) (Isildur) was under the influence of the Ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and letsIsuldur Isildur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stopIsuldur, Isildur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
'''You'd Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
* In ''Return of the King'', Faramir led a charge to try to retake Osgilath from Sauron's army. Unfortunatly it ends in failure with the entire unit wiped out, except for Faramir and his horse. Faramir is knocked unconscious from a poisioned arrow. Denethor however gets greatly upset and thinks he's dead. Pippin however noticed he's still kicking, but needs medicine, and even then Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone to prepare for battle. Since Denethor is knocked out, this leaves Faramir's unconscious body unattended.\\
to:
* In ''Return of the King'', Faramir led a charge to try to retake Osgilath from Sauron's army. Unfortunatly Unfortunately it ends in failure with the entire unit wiped out, except for Faramir and his horse. Faramir is knocked unconscious from a poisioned poisoned arrow. Denethor however gets greatly upset and thinks he's dead. Pippin however noticed he's still kicking, but needs medicine, and even then Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone to prepare for battle. Since Denethor is knocked out, this leaves Faramir's unconscious body unattended.\\
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
These seem like subjective disagreements, and they are in clear violation of the rule at the top of the page anyhow. See also Ask The Tropers.
Changed line(s) 28,29 (click to see context) from:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!\\
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
to:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!\\
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.indeed!
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
Changed line(s) 32,33 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
to:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
to:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
Changed line(s) 40,41 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Pippin or one of the other Gondor people in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, and have him recover, thus saving his life.\\
'''Instead''': They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!
'''Instead''': They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Expect:''' Pippin or one of the other Gondor people in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, and have him recover, thus saving his life.\\
'''Instead''': '''Instead:''' They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!pulse!
* Just before that, Faramir reports that tens of thousands of orcs have taken Osgiliath, which he and just a few tens of soldiers have survived thanks to Gandalf's intervention.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the King on important matters.
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he angrily claims that Theoden has betrayed him.
* Just before that, Faramir reports that tens of thousands of orcs have taken Osgiliath, which he and just a few tens of soldiers have survived thanks to Gandalf's intervention.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' for Denethor to listen to his son and realize that Osgiliath is lost for the moment, order the fortification of Minas Tirith and bring reinforcements and call for any allies that may be willing to come. He could also listen to Gandalf, who has proven to be a wise - if somewhat obtuse at times - and pretty much the one thing that can push the Nazgul back. And even if Gandalf supports Aragorn as King of Gondor, it does not mean that he cannot maintain his position, advising the King on important matters.
'''Instead:''' he rebuffs Faramir's claims, saying that he and his men ran away because of cowardice, and orders him to lead a small army to retake Osgiliath (which ends up in the above WhatAnIdiot situation). He also rebuffs Gandalf's quite sensible suggestions and rage about the fact that he'll never let Aragorn take the throne, saying that Gondor is his to rule. When Pippin, at Gandalf's prompting, lights the beacon that will call Rohan to battle, he gets angry with Gandalf. And, finally, when Mordor's army is at his gate and there is no one else in sight, he angrily claims that Theoden has betrayed him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Natter
Deleted line(s) 29 (click to see context) :
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
Changed line(s) 32,33 (click to see context) from:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
to:
'''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
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None
Deleted line(s) 17 (click to see context) :
Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the ring.\\
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Expect:''' Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the ring.Ring.\\
Changed line(s) 29 (click to see context) from:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
to:
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!indeed!\\
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
'''However:''' The power of the Ring is strongest at Mount Doom, and anyone that carries it in there will fall to its charm and claim it. Elrond would have probably fallen if he tried to take the Ring from Isildur. Not to mention that it is not 100% assured that Isildur would have let Elrond take the Ring without a fight, in which one of them would have died.
Changed line(s) 31,32 (click to see context) from:
'''You'd Expect''': One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead''': They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
'''Instead''': They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
to:
'''You'd Expect''': Expect:''' One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead''': '''Instead:''' They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.\\
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
'''However:''' Gandalf tells them to flee and lets go, instead of trying to keep hanging.
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[[/folder]]
to:
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Even though it is considered one of the greatest trilogies of all time, it doesn't mean there aren't any moments of stupidity.
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'''To Be Fair:''' If Elrond had tried to take the Ring it would probably corrupt him as well and during the struggle one of them would possibly die or worse, Isildur would escape with The Ring and a war between The Humans and Elves would likely happen over it.
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'''To Be Fair:''' If Elrond had tried to take the Ring it would probably corrupt him as well and during the struggle one of them would possibly die or worse, Isildur would escape with The Ring and a war between The Humans and Elves would likely happen over it.
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all are film only
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* (Film Only) In the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
to:
* (Film Only) In the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
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%%
%%PUBLIC SERVICE REMINDER: This is an AudienceReaction
%%your "justifications", "however" or Natter don't matter on somebody's else's AudienceReaction
%%LEAVE THEM OFF, PLEASE
%%If something's blatantly wrong, just remove it
%%
%%PUBLIC SERVICE REMINDER: This is an AudienceReaction
%%your "justifications", "however" or Natter don't matter on somebody's else's AudienceReaction
%%LEAVE THEM OFF, PLEASE
%%If something's blatantly wrong, just remove it
%%
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[[folder:The Original Novels]]
[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]
[[AC: The Two Towers]]
[[AC: The Return of the King]]
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The Peter Jackson Film Versions]]
[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]
* In Elrond's flash back in the first film, Elrond tells to Isuldur to destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom, which he ends up saying [[LittleNo "No"]] since he was corrupted by the Ring. Isuldur then starts to leave Mount Doom, while Elrond calls out his name, yelling, "ISULDUR!".\\
'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* (Film Only) In the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect''': One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead''': They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
* Near the end of the movie, at Amon Hen, the Uruk-Hai attack the Fellowship, Merry and Pippin distract the Uruk Hai so that Frodo can escape. Boromir rushes to save Merry and Pippin.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you with a bow and arrow. (Imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow, and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
[[AC: The Two Towers]]
[[AC: The Return of the King]]
* In ''Return of the King'', Faramir led a charge to try to retake Osgilath from Sauron's army. Unfortunatly it ends in failure with the entire unit wiped out, except for Faramir and his horse. Faramir is knocked unconscious from a poisioned arrow. Denethor however gets greatly upset and thinks he's dead. Pippin however noticed he's still kicking, but needs medicine, and even then Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone to prepare for battle. Since Denethor is knocked out, this leaves Faramir's unconscious body unattended.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Pippin or one of the other Gondor people in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, and have him recover, thus saving his life.\\
'''Instead''': They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!
[[/folder]]
[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]
[[AC: The Two Towers]]
[[AC: The Return of the King]]
[[/folder]]
[[folder:The Peter Jackson Film Versions]]
[[AC: The Fellowship of the Ring]]
* In Elrond's flash back in the first film, Elrond tells to Isuldur to destroy the One Ring in Mount Doom, which he ends up saying [[LittleNo "No"]] since he was corrupted by the Ring. Isuldur then starts to leave Mount Doom, while Elrond calls out his name, yelling, "ISULDUR!".\\
'''You'd Expect''': Elrond to take the Ring from Isuldur and cast it into the fire and magma himself, since Isuldur has been corrupted by the Ring, and thus destroying all evil. If he asks "Why did you do this?", Elrond could tell him that he (Isuldur) was under the influence of the ring.\\
'''Instead:''' He does ABSOLUTELY nothing and lets Isuldur leave Mount Doom, and he doesn't even try to stop him!\\
'''Result:''' Because Elrond doesn't act to try to stop Isuldur, evil still exists, the Throne of Gondor falls, and the Elves lose faith in the Race of Men! So technically, this whole thing is Elrond's fault, and yet he's never blamed for it! Evil was allowed to endure indeed!
* (Film Only) In the Mines of Moria, after Gandalf destroys the bridge to prevent the Balrog from following the Fellowship, as the Balrog falls, it uses its whip to try to take Gandalf with it. Gandalf hangs on to the cliff.\\
'''You'd Expect''': One of the heroes to go up to Gandalf and pull him up and save him.\\
'''Instead''': They just stand there and let Gandalf just fall to his doom. Even Frodo tries to save Gandalf, Boromir holds him back.
* Near the end of the movie, at Amon Hen, the Uruk-Hai attack the Fellowship, Merry and Pippin distract the Uruk Hai so that Frodo can escape. Boromir rushes to save Merry and Pippin.\\
'''You'd Expect:''' Boromir to bring his shield to the battle so that he can protect himself. And there could be an Uruk-Hai with a bow and arrow who could shoot at you with a bow and arrow. (Imagine that).\\
'''Instead:''' For some reason, he doesn't bring his shield when he goes to try to save Merry and Pippin, and he eventually gets shot to death by the Uruk-Hai with the bow and arrow, and the Uruk-Hai kidnap Merry and Pippin.
[[AC: The Two Towers]]
[[AC: The Return of the King]]
* In ''Return of the King'', Faramir led a charge to try to retake Osgilath from Sauron's army. Unfortunatly it ends in failure with the entire unit wiped out, except for Faramir and his horse. Faramir is knocked unconscious from a poisioned arrow. Denethor however gets greatly upset and thinks he's dead. Pippin however noticed he's still kicking, but needs medicine, and even then Denethor ignores that, yelling "My line has ended!". When he sees Sauron's army at his doorstep, thinking Rohan will not aid him, he yells "ABANDON YOUR POSTS! FLEE! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!", which is stupid, so Gandalf knocks him out unconscious with his staff, and tells everyone to prepare for battle. Since Denethor is knocked out, this leaves Faramir's unconscious body unattended.\\
'''You'd Expect''': Pippin or one of the other Gondor people in the area to take advantage of Denethor being knocked unconscious by Gandalf, and take Faramir to the healers, and have him recover, thus saving his life.\\
'''Instead''': They ''completely'' forget about Faramir, and the fact that Pippin said that he needed medicine. Unfortunately, after Denethor regains consciousness, he still takes him to burn his unconscious body and himself in the Tomb of the Stewards, and none of the other guys even question Denethor, or ask "What if your son is alive?", or even check for a pulse!
[[/folder]]
