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I never watched the show, but following Ms CC 93 in Ask The Tropers, the character in question " is always portrayed sympathetically no matter how wrong she is" and is a designated hero. Following this description, she not fits to the trope because, of a descriptive language point of view, she is not evil.
Deleted line(s) 26 (click to see context) :
* EvilVsEvil: Basically, Joyce vs Lois. Joyce because she not only got revenge on Lois, but she (albeit understandably) refused to accept Lois' apology even after the latter showed remorse for the prank she pulled in high school. Lois, because although she doesn't cause much damage in this episode, she's still a {{jerkass}} in later seasons of the show.
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I'm prety sure you can't do that. Also, editing this to sound less biased and whiny.
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she eclipsed it and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
to:
* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: AccuserOfTheBrethren: Combined with AntiVillain, Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she eclipsed it and not caring that prank the latter pulled in high school. Even after Lois is sorry about the prank.apologizes, Joyce remains stubborn in her stance and refuses to accept Lois' apology.
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
* ButForMeItWasTuesday: When Joyce confronts Lois about a prank the latter pulled on her as a teenager. This is understandable, considering how the action had no effect on Lois and that what she did was probably over 20 years ago.
to:
* ButForMeItWasTuesday: When Joyce confronts Lois about a prank the latter pulled on her as a teenager. This is understandable, considering how the action had no negative effect on Lois and that what she did was probably over 20 years ago.ago and can be easily forgotten.
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, Joyce went behind her back over twenty years later and aired Lois' sirty laundry on TV without confronting her directly about it and caused Lois public humiliation. Lois apologized, but Joyce rejected her apologzy.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, Joyce went behind her back over twenty years later and aired Lois' sirty laundry on TV without confronting her directly about it and caused Lois public humiliation. Even after this, Lois apologized, but Joyce rejected her apologzy.apology.
* EvilVsEvil: Basically, Joyce vs Lois. Joyce because she not only got revenge on Lois, but she (albeit understandably) refused to accept Lois' apology even after the latter showed remorse for the prank she pulled in high school. Lois, because although she doesn't cause much damage in this episode, she's still a {{jerkass}} in later seasons of the show.
* EvilVsEvil: Basically, Joyce vs Lois. Joyce because she not only got revenge on Lois, but she (albeit understandably) refused to accept Lois' apology even after the latter showed remorse for the prank she pulled in high school. Lois, because although she doesn't cause much damage in this episode, she's still a {{jerkass}} in later seasons of the show.
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* RejectedApology: While nderstandable, Joyce does this to Lois. What makes this come off as harsh is the fact that Lois was genuinely sorry for what she did.
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None
Changed line(s) 25,26 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, Joyce went behind her back twenty years later without confronting her directly about it and caused Lois public humiliation. Lois apologized, but Joyce rejected her apologzy.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but rather than letting it go and forgetting about Lois, she gets revenge on her.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but rather than letting it go and forgetting about Lois, she gets revenge on her.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, Joyce went behind her back over twenty years later and aired Lois' sirty laundry on TV without confronting her directly about it and caused Lois public humiliation. Lois apologized, but Joyce rejected her apologzy.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but rather than letting it go and forgetting about Lois, she gets revenge onher.her and causes Lois public humiliation.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but rather than letting it go and forgetting about Lois, she gets revenge on
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My problem with these is that it makes Lois look like she's a changed person, when really she's still ajerkass to people. Yes, it's unhealthy and wrong for Joyce to hold grudges, but Lois is no saint. I think Joyce should let it go, but don't make lois look like some innocent ange.Rewriting to lessen the sugarcoating.
Changed line(s) 25,27 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, but Joyce went behind her back twenty years later without confronting her directly about it and giving her a chance to apologize and turned her into a town pariah, several times worse than what Lois did.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but instead of so much as confronting her directly, she fakes a friendship when Lois comes up to her with admiration in order to dig up dirt on her old bully, and exposes it, humiliating Lois even worse, and rejecting any apology.
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut", when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but instead of so much as confronting her directly, she fakes a friendship when Lois comes up to her with admiration in order to dig up dirt on her old bully, and exposes it, humiliating Lois even worse, and rejecting any apology.
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut", when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a Carrie-style humiliation in high school, but Joyce went behind her back twenty years later without confronting her directly about it and giving her a chance to apologize and turned her into a town pariah, several times worse than what caused Lois did.
public humiliation. Lois apologized, but Joyce rejected her apologzy.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, butinstead of so much as confronting her directly, rather than letting it go and forgetting about Lois, she fakes a friendship when Lois comes up to her with admiration in order to dig up dirt gets revenge on her old bully, and exposes it, humiliating Lois even worse, and rejecting any apology.
her.
*{{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut", when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce towards Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but
*
Deleted line(s) 33 (click to see context) :
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention just being a bitch in post-cancellation seasons).
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
* MisplacedRetribution: Chris gets shamed at school for Lois' past actions.
to:
* MisplacedRetribution: Chris gets and Meg get shamed at school for Lois' past actions.
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Meg also kind of suffered a little blowback for the incident, so that's definitely not karma for Lois' mistreatment of Meg.
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* SinsOfOurFathers: Chris, and Meg to a lesser extent, get this from bullies in high school over what Lois did.
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Meg sort of
Changed line(s) 25,28 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce caused public humiliation. Granted Lois' prank was a Carrie-style humiliation.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce (albeit understandably) towards Lois.
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut," when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois "trash." Yes, the same Quagmire who has a StalkerShrine of Lois in his closet and tried to have sex with her on the episode where Peter has amnesia after appearing on an episode of ''Family Feud'' calling Lois "trash."
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce (albeit understandably) towards Lois.
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut," when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois "trash." Yes, the same Quagmire who has a StalkerShrine of Lois in his closet and tried to have sex with her on the episode where Peter has amnesia after appearing on an episode of ''Family Feud'' calling Lois "trash."
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce caused public humiliation. Granted Lois' prank was a Carrie-style humiliation.
humiliation in high school, but Joyce went behind her back twenty years later without confronting her directly about it and giving her a chance to apologize and turned her into a town pariah, several times worse than what Lois did.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce(albeit understandably) towards Lois.
Lois. Her backstory is sympathetic, but instead of so much as confronting her directly, she fakes a friendship when Lois comes up to her with admiration in order to dig up dirt on her old bully, and exposes it, humiliating Lois even worse, and rejecting any apology.
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a"slut," "slut", when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois"trash." "trash". Yes, the same Quagmire who has a StalkerShrine of Lois in his closet and tried to have sex with her on the episode where Peter has amnesia after appearing on an episode of ''Family Feud'' calling Lois "trash.""trash".
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce
* {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter and just being a bitch in post-cancellation seasons).
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter and just being a bitch in post-cancellation seasons). seasons).
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* ButForMeItWasTuesday: When Joyce confronts Lois about a prank the latter pulled on her as a teenager. This is understandable, considering how the action had no effect on Lois and that what she did was probably over 20 years ago.
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce caused public humiliation.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce, big time. She doesn't think to confront her directly about it, and goes straight for the jugular over 20 years after the fact, damn the consequences.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce, big time. She doesn't think to confront her directly about it, and goes straight for the jugular over 20 years after the fact, damn the consequences.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce caused public humiliation. Granted Lois' prank was a Carrie-style humiliation.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters:Joyce, big time. She doesn't think to confront her directly about it, and goes straight for the jugular over 20 years after the fact, damn the consequences.Joyce (albeit understandably) towards Lois.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters:
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).daughter and just being a bitch in post-cancellation seasons).
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This isn't disproportionate. This is misplaced. Chris didn't deserve to be shamed for his bitch mother's past. Removing sympathy for Lois (cunt).
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. Chris even gets shamed at school in the fallout by bullies.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. Chris even gets shamed at school in the fallout by bullies.Joyce caused public humiliation.
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* MisplacedRetribution: Chris gets shamed at school for Lois' past actions.
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* RealityEnsues: Joyce gets revenge on Lois for a Carrie-style prank that the latter pulled on her in high school. Lois attempts to apologize, only for [[RejectedApology Joyce to not care]] (due to the severity of said prank). Moral of the scene: there are real life victims of bullying who will never let go of grudges against bullies (even when they really should) and that just because you feel remorseful and apologize for your actions, it won't guarantee an accepted apology.
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Damn I was the one who said that, what was I thinking?
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No sneaking opinions.
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl . (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter). Exaggerated trope since it comes off as DisproportionateRetribution.
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl . girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter). Exaggerated trope since it comes off as DisproportionateRetribution.
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None
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** Discussed when Lois tells the congregation that Mary Magdeline (known for being a prostitute) was friends with Jesus and Jesus forgave her for her sins, and the congregation has no right to call her out for her sleazy past since none of them are better than Jesus (except for TinaFey).
to:
** Discussed when Lois tells the congregation that Mary Magdeline (known for being a prostitute) was friends with Jesus and Jesus forgave her for her sins, and the congregation has no right to call her out for her sleazy past since none of them are better than Jesus (except for TinaFey).Creator/TinaFey).
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None
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** Discussed when Lois tells the congregation that Mary Magdeline (known for being a prostitute) was friends with Jesus and Jesus forgave her for her sins, and the congregation has no right to call her out for her sleazy past and are no better than God (except for TinaFey).
to:
** Discussed when Lois tells the congregation that Mary Magdeline (known for being a prostitute) was friends with Jesus and Jesus forgave her for her sins, and the congregation has no right to call her out for her sleazy past and since none of them are no better than God Jesus (except for TinaFey).
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* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she eclipsed it and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
Deleted line(s) 16 (click to see context) :
* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she eclipsed it and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
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None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl . (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl . (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter). Exaggerated trope since it comes off as DisproportionateRetribution.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* ShoutOut: Lois' prank on Joyce is a bit similar to the prank that Jessica plays on a fat girl in the movie ''Film/TheHotChick''.
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* AdultsAreUseless: Implied in Joyce's flashback. Lois and the other cheerleaders are never seen being punished for their prank on Joyce.
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Deleted line(s) 23 (click to see context) :
* DependingOnTheWriter: This is one of Lois' rarer non-bitchy episodes as of later seasons, making her seem all the more sympathetic in this conflict, especially since she was sorry towards Joyce, who still held a grudge.
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None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake, Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake, mistake (and Joyce going overboard), Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl girl . (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).
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None
Added DiffLines:
* DependingOnTheWriter: This is one of Lois' rarer non-bitchy episodes as of later seasons, making her seem all the more sympathetic in this conflict, especially since she was sorry towards Joyce, who still held a grudge.
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Irrelevant justification that falls under Rooting For The Empire.
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. Chris even gets shamed at school in the fallout by bullies. This one may be justified, as Lois, in the later episodes, has become more cruel to others, and this is just the writers giving the fans who are critical about this what they want.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. Chris even gets shamed at school in the fallout by bullies. This one may be justified, as Lois, in the later episodes, has become more cruel to others, and this is just the writers giving the fans who are critical about this what they want.
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None
Deleted line(s) 25 (click to see context) :
* HilarityEnsues: In the real world, Joyce would have been fired immediately after airing her expose on Lois … not only because the story had no news value but that the story was meant only to embarrass and humiliate someone with whom she held a grudge against. WQHG would have been exposed to a huge libel lawsuit to boot.
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None
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as Lois, in the later episodes, has become more cruel to others, and this is just the writers giving the fans who are critical about this what they want.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. Chris even gets shamed at school in the fallout by bullies. This one may be justified, as Lois, in the later episodes, has become more cruel to others, and this is just the writers giving the fans who are critical about this what they want.want.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce, big time. She doesn't think to confront her directly about it, and goes straight for the jugular over 20 years after the fact, damn the consequences.
* HeWhoFightsMonsters: Joyce, big time. She doesn't think to confront her directly about it, and goes straight for the jugular over 20 years after the fact, damn the consequences.
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Removing sugarcoating.
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she [[DisproportionateRetribution takes it too far]] and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
to:
* AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she [[DisproportionateRetribution takes eclipsed it too far]] and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* HilarityEnsues: In the real world, Joyce would have been fired immediately after airing her expose on Lois … not only because the story had no news value but that the story was meant only to embarrass and humiliate someone with whom she held a grudge against (for making her the victim of a joke that should long-ago have been forgotten). WQHG would have been exposed to a huge libel lawsuit to boot.
to:
* HilarityEnsues: In the real world, Joyce would have been fired immediately after airing her expose on Lois … not only because the story had no news value but that the story was meant only to embarrass and humiliate someone with whom she held a grudge against (for making her the victim of a joke that should long-ago have been forgotten).against. WQHG would have been exposed to a huge libel lawsuit to boot.
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake, Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl.
to:
* LaserGuidedKarma: Despite trying to save face and show others that she made a mistake, Lois did get what she deserved for pranking an unpopular girl.girl (not to mention her cruel treatment towards her daughter).
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None
Added DiffLines:
* HilarityEnsues: In the real world, Joyce would have been fired immediately after airing her expose on Lois … not only because the story had no news value but that the story was meant only to embarrass and humiliate someone with whom she held a grudge against (for making her the victim of a joke that should long-ago have been forgotten). WQHG would have been exposed to a huge libel lawsuit to boot.
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* WithFriendsLikeThese: Joyce's betrayal of Lois (by revealing her past and the supposed "justification"), and the aftermath (nearly all of Quahog shunning Lois, calling her hateful names and so forth, and being ex-communicated by her church when she turns to her pastor for help).
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None
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she [[DisproportionateRetribution takes it too far]] and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
to:
* AntiVillain: AccuserOfTheBrethren[=/=]AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she [[DisproportionateRetribution takes it too far]] and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* AntiVillain: Joyce Kinney airs Lois' dirty laundry as revenge for the prank, only that she [[DisproportionateRetribution takes it too far]] and not caring that Lois is sorry about the prank.
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None
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as bullying is a huge deal these days.
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as bullying Lois, in the later episodes, has become more cruel to others, and this is a huge deal these days.just the writers giving the fans who are critical about this what they want.
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None
Changed line(s) 22,24 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as bullying is a huge deal.
* {{Hypocrite}}: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut," when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois "trash".
* {{Hypocrite}}: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut," when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois "trash".
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as bullying is a huge deal.
deal these days.
*{{Hypocrite}}: {{Hypocrite}} and HypocriticalHumor: Bonnie has the nerve to call Lois a "slut," when Bonnie cheated on Joe in "Go Stewie Go."
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois"trash"."trash." Yes, the same Quagmire who has a StalkerShrine of Lois in his closet and tried to have sex with her on the episode where Peter has amnesia after appearing on an episode of ''Family Feud'' calling Lois "trash."
*
** A deleted scene shows '''''[[AnythingThatMoves Quagmire]]''''' angrily calling Lois
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* InspirationallyDisadvantaged: This is invoked as a RatingsStunt with a news story on Angus Reed, a boy with cerebral palsy.
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* InspirationallyDisadvantaged: This is invoked Invoked as a RatingsStunt with a news story on Angus Reed, a boy with cerebral palsy.
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Added DiffLines:
* DisproportionateRetribution: What Lois did to Joyce was a big deal, but Joyce's retaliation eclipsed it. This one may be justified, as bullying is a huge deal.
