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** All of the questionable deeds and awful actions Lumina committed is all completely necessary to prevent even greater tragedies from happening.
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** Sol points out the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox omniscience paradox]] causing Lumina to vanish in a PuffOfLogic.
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** Sol points out the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox omniscience paradox]] paradox]], causing Lumina to vanish in a PuffOfLogic.
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* '''Conversed''': [[FridgeLogic Hold on.]] If Lumina is omniscient, then couldn't she explain to Sol exactly why she's doing something and use her limitless knowledge to convince him.
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* '''Conversed''': [[FridgeLogic "[[FridgeLogic Hold on.]] If Lumina is omniscient, then couldn't she explain to Sol exactly why she's doing something and use her limitless knowledge to convince him.him?"
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** Lumina belief in her omniscience causes her to become a TautologicalTemplar.
to:
** Lumina Lumina’s belief in her omniscience causes her to become a TautologicalTemplar.
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** Lumina's more hideous actions and the negative consequences that follow lead Sol and his party to suspect they're only [[FromBadToWorse making things worse]] by following her lead and that Lumina and her Goddess are [[TautologicalTemplar the actual]] [[GodIsEvil bad guys]] and promptly turn on her, kill her, then proceed to stage a campaign to [[KillTheGod slay her Goddess.]]
to:
** Lumina's more hideous actions actions, and the negative consequences that follow follow, lead Sol and his party to suspect they're only [[FromBadToWorse making things worse]] by following her lead and that Lumina and her Goddess are [[TautologicalTemplar the actual]] [[GodIsEvil bad guys]] and promptly turn on her, kill her, then proceed to stage a campaign to [[KillTheGod slay her Goddess.]]Goddess]].
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** Lumina is as horrified by her actions as everyone else is, [[WellIntentionedExtremist but believes the ends justify her means]], [[NecessaryEvil and forges ahead regardless.]]
to:
** Lumina is as horrified by her actions as everyone else is, [[WellIntentionedExtremist but believes the ends justify her means]], [[NecessaryEvil and forges ahead regardless.]]regardless]].
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** Lumina's more hideous actions and the negative consequences that follow lead Sol and his party to suspect they're only [[FromBadToWorse making things worse]] by following her lead and that Lumina and her Goddess are [[TautologicalTemplar the actual]] [[GodIsEvil bad guys]] and promptly turn on her, kill her, then proceed to stage a campaign to [[KillTheGod slay her Goddess.]]
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** Lumina is in for a nasty shock: her being cryptic ''doesn't'' make the party stronger, and it instead leads to [[BigBad Emperor Evulz]] killing Sol. She has a MyGodWhatHaveIDone moment, and ends up renouncing her title as prophet.
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** Lumina admits that she knows nothing about the future - only that she can reset and give advice again if it leads to their death or failure. She doesn't even know if her 'working' advice does so from being heeded or defied. She is apologetic about the suffering this has caused innumerable copies of them to suffer but says that she does not have any better tool to work with.
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** Or, "Lumina" ''is'' that goddess, or and aspect of it, or its herald, or incarnation, and thus its the Goddess challenging them directly and being a goddess, she is nigh perfect.
to:
** Or, "Lumina" ''is'' that goddess, or and aspect of it, or its herald, or incarnation, an aspect/herald/incarnation thereof, and thus its it's the Goddess challenging them directly and being a goddess, she is nigh perfect.
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Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
* '''Reconstructed''': Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
to:
* '''Reconstructed''': '''Reconstructed''':
** Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
** Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
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%%* '''Implied''': ???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???
to:
%%* '''Implied''': ???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''':???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''':
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Changed line(s) 36 (click to see context) from:
** Lumina is as horrified by her actions as everyone else is, [[WellIntentionedExtremist but believes the ends justify her means]], [[NecessaryEvil; and forges ahead regardless.]]
to:
** Lumina is as horrified by her actions as everyone else is, [[WellIntentionedExtremist but believes the ends justify her means]], [[NecessaryEvil; [[NecessaryEvil and forges ahead regardless.]]
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**Even if it will work out alright in the end, no-one can overlook Lumina's hideous crimes, and she is struck down before her plans can take full effect, leading to a BadFuture.
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**Lumina is as horrified by her actions as everyone else is, [[WellIntentionedExtremist but believes the ends justify her means]], [[NecessaryEvil; and forges ahead regardless.]]
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Adding \"downplayed\" example.
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* '''Downplayed''': ???
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* '''Downplayed''': ???'''Downplayed''':
** [[InMysteriousWays The manipulative acts are low-key or not overtly unethical.]]
** Lumina warns the heroes that she will be testing them, or resists doing it as much a possible.
** [[InMysteriousWays The manipulative acts are low-key or not overtly unethical.]]
** Lumina warns the heroes that she will be testing them, or resists doing it as much a possible.
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* '''Conversed''': ???
to:
* '''Conversed''': ???[[FridgeLogic Hold on.]] If Lumina is omniscient, then couldn't she explain to Sol exactly why she's doing something and use her limitless knowledge to convince him.
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minor indentation fix
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* '''Lampshaded''': "Instead of telling us of the grim misfortune that will befall us on our journey, why don't you draw us a map, with said misfortunes clearly pointed out, as well as methods to avoid and/or defeat them?"
to:
* '''Lampshaded''': '''Lampshaded''':
** "Instead of telling us of the grim misfortune that will befall us on our journey, why don't you draw us a map, with said misfortunes clearly pointed out, as well as methods to avoid and/or defeat them?"
** "Instead of telling us of the grim misfortune that will befall us on our journey, why don't you draw us a map, with said misfortunes clearly pointed out, as well as methods to avoid and/or defeat them?"
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** "How about I just say "To hell with that noise and [[ScrewDestiny set things right]] without you shoving those fates down my throat?"
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Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
* '''Deconstructed''': Lumina becomes so convinced that everything she does is justified by her abilities that she begins to stray into AGodAmI territory. This angers her Goddess, who punishes her by cutting off her powers.
to:
* '''Deconstructed''': '''Deconstructed''':
** Lumina becomes so convinced that everything she does is justified by her abilities that she begins to stray into AGodAmI territory. This angers her Goddess, who punishes her by cutting off herpowers.powers.
** Lumina belief in her omniscience causes her to become a TautologicalTemplar.
** Lumina becomes so convinced that everything she does is justified by her abilities that she begins to stray into AGodAmI territory. This angers her Goddess, who punishes her by cutting off her
** Lumina belief in her omniscience causes her to become a TautologicalTemplar.
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** Or, "Lumina" ''is'' that goddess, or and aspect of it, or its herald, or incarnation, and thus its the Goddess challenging them directly and being a goddess, she is nigh perfect
to:
** Or, "Lumina" ''is'' that goddess, or and aspect of it, or its herald, or incarnation, and thus its the Goddess challenging them directly and being a goddess, she is nigh perfectperfect.
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* '''Discussed''': ???
to:
* '''Discussed''': ???"I have no idea why we have to put up with Lumina after all of the crap she's put us through just to get to our destiny."
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minor indentation fix
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* '''Justified''': Lumina actually ''does'' have a direct connection to her patron Goddess, and everything she puts Sol and the others through is destined to make them strong enough to save the world.
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* '''Justified''': '''Justified''':
** Lumina actually ''does'' have a direct connection to her patron Goddess, and everything she puts Sol and the others through is destined to make them strong enough to save the world.
** Lumina actually ''does'' have a direct connection to her patron Goddess, and everything she puts Sol and the others through is destined to make them strong enough to save the world.
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** Or, "Lumina" ''is'' that goddess, or and aspect of it, or its herald, or incarnation, and thus its the Goddess challenging them directly and being a goddess, she is nigh perfect
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minor indentation fix
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* '''Double Subverted''': However, Lumina justifies this by pointing out how much stronger they became after that trial, and he lets her off the hook.
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* '''Double Subverted''': Subverted''':
** However, Lumina justifies this by pointing out how much stronger they became after that trial, and he lets her off the hook.
** However, Lumina justifies this by pointing out how much stronger they became after that trial, and he lets her off the hook.
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** Lumina retorts against or ignores the omnipotence paradox and sends the cast on their merry way, while pointing out that the reason they came here in the first place was to seek her omnipotent guidance.
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* '''Subverted''': Sol [[RageAgainstTheMentor calls Lumina out]] on her nearly getting his party killed by being so damn cryptic all the time.
to:
* '''Subverted''': '''Subverted''':
** Sol [[RageAgainstTheMentor calls Lumina out]] on her nearly getting his party killed by being so damn cryptic all thetime.time.
** Sol points out the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox omniscience paradox]] causing Lumina to vanish in a PuffOfLogic.
** Sol [[RageAgainstTheMentor calls Lumina out]] on her nearly getting his party killed by being so damn cryptic all the
** Sol points out the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox omniscience paradox]] causing Lumina to vanish in a PuffOfLogic.
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Added standarized \'Playing With Wiki\' template
* '''Downplayed''': ???
Deleted line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) :
* '''Deconstructed''': Lumina becomes so convinced that everything she does is justified by her abilities that she begins to stray into AGodAmI territory. This angers her Goddess, who punishes her by cutting off her powers.
* '''Reconstructed''': Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
* '''Reconstructed''': Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
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* '''Defied''': Lumina, aware that she might grow too prideful and come to view herself as infallible due to her gift, sets up a council of trusted, level-headed confidants with whom she can discuss her visions and decide the most prudent course of action.
** Alternately, the TrueCompanions' resident HeroicSociopath has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
** Alternately, the TrueCompanions' resident HeroicSociopath has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
to:
* '''Defied''': '''Exploited''': ???
* '''Defied''':
** Lumina, aware that she might grow too prideful and come to view herself as infallible due to her gift, sets up a council of trusted, level-headed confidants with whom she can discuss her visions and decide the most prudent course of action.
** Alternately, the TrueCompanions' residentHeroicSociopath SociopathicHero has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
* '''Defied''':
** Lumina, aware that she might grow too prideful and come to view herself as infallible due to her gift, sets up a council of trusted, level-headed confidants with whom she can discuss her visions and decide the most prudent course of action.
** Alternately, the TrueCompanions' resident
* '''Deconstructed''': Lumina becomes so convinced that everything she does is justified by her abilities that she begins to stray into AGodAmI territory. This angers her Goddess, who punishes her by cutting off her powers.
* '''Reconstructed''': Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
* '''Reconstructed''': Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
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Back to OmniscientMoralityLicense.
----
----
to:
Back to OmniscientMoralityLicense.
----OmniscientMoralityLicense
----
%% Optional items, added after Conversed, at your discretion:
%%
%%* '''Implied''': ???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???
----
----
%% Optional items, added after Conversed, at your discretion:
%%
%%* '''Implied''': ???
%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???
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Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* '''Zig Zagged''': Lumina is generally straight with Sol, but misleads him about a few key elements of his destiny, not wanting to let him know certain unpleasant details before he's ready for it. When some of these details surface, Sol lets it slide, because he trusts her and figures that she knows what she's doing... but some of his companions aren't so trusting or willing to give her a free pass. Then one FetchQuest goes particularly bad, leaving [[TheArcher Arte]][[CombatMedic mis]] and [[TeamPet Hoshi]] seriously wounded, and Sol [[BreakTheCutie snaps into full-on]] RageAgainstTheMentor mode. [[GentlemanThief Stellar]], however, takes Lumina's side, arguing she has an OmniscientMoralityLicense. Sol doesn't buy it.
to:
* '''Zig Zagged''': Lumina is generally straight with Sol, but misleads him about a few key elements of his destiny, not wanting to let him know certain unpleasant details before he's ready for it. When some of these details surface, Sol lets it slide, because he trusts her and figures that she knows what she's doing... but some of his companions aren't so trusting or willing to give her a free pass. Then one FetchQuest goes particularly bad, leaving [[TheArcher Arte]][[CombatMedic Arte [[CombatMedic mis]] and [[TeamPet Hoshi]] seriously wounded, and Sol [[BreakTheCutie snaps into full-on]] RageAgainstTheMentor mode. [[GentlemanThief Stellar]], however, takes Lumina's side, arguing she has an OmniscientMoralityLicense. Sol doesn't buy it.
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* '''Straight''': The [[{{Seers}} prophet]] Lumina manipulates [[TheHero Sol]] and his [[{{Nakama}} party]] via [[CrypticConversation misleadingly cryptic prophecies]] and [[FromACertainPointOfView twisted truths]] into fulfilling their destinies... just as she has foreseen in her visions.
to:
* '''Straight''': The [[{{Seers}} prophet]] Lumina manipulates [[TheHero Sol]] and his [[{{Nakama}} [[TrueCompanions party]] via [[CrypticConversation misleadingly cryptic prophecies]] and [[FromACertainPointOfView twisted truths]] into fulfilling their destinies... just as she has foreseen in her visions.
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** Alternately, the {{Nakama}}'s resident HeroicSociopath has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
to:
** Alternately, the {{Nakama}}'s TrueCompanions' resident HeroicSociopath has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
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Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* '''Zig Zagged''': Lumina is generally straight with Sol, but misleads him about a few key elements of his destiny, not wanting to let him know certain unpleasant details before he's ready for it. When some of these details surface, Sol lets it slide, because he trusts her and figures that she knows what she's doing... but some of his companions aren't so trusting or willing to give her a free pass. Then one FetchQuest goes particularly bad, leaving [[StraightArrow Arte]][[CombatMedic mis]] and [[TeamPet Hoshi]] seriously wounded, and Sol [[BreakTheCutie snaps into full-on]] RageAgainstTheMentor mode. [[GentlemanThief Stellar]], however, takes Lumina's side, arguing she has an OmniscientMoralityLicense. Sol doesn't buy it.
to:
* '''Zig Zagged''': Lumina is generally straight with Sol, but misleads him about a few key elements of his destiny, not wanting to let him know certain unpleasant details before he's ready for it. When some of these details surface, Sol lets it slide, because he trusts her and figures that she knows what she's doing... but some of his companions aren't so trusting or willing to give her a free pass. Then one FetchQuest goes particularly bad, leaving [[StraightArrow [[TheArcher Arte]][[CombatMedic mis]] and [[TeamPet Hoshi]] seriously wounded, and Sol [[BreakTheCutie snaps into full-on]] RageAgainstTheMentor mode. [[GentlemanThief Stellar]], however, takes Lumina's side, arguing she has an OmniscientMoralityLicense. Sol doesn't buy it.
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Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* '''Lampshaded''': ???
to:
* '''Lampshaded''': ???"Instead of telling us of the grim misfortune that will befall us on our journey, why don't you draw us a map, with said misfortunes clearly pointed out, as well as methods to avoid and/or defeat them?"
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* '''Reconstructed''': ???
to:
* '''Reconstructed''': ???Lumina is given her powers of foresight [[CassandraTruth on the grounds that she can not explicitly share her visions with anyone]], and so in order to help out the protagonists, she gives them friendly, cryptic advice, which they will later come to see is very helpful.
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Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* '''Enforced''': ???
to:
* '''Enforced''': ???Lumina is the AuthorAvatar, and the author is [[SmallNameBigEgo a bit full of herself]].
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** Alternately, the {{Nakama}}'s resident HeroicSociopath has a reputation for stabbing anyone that tries this sort of thing, [[MurderIsTheBestSolution regardless of how rational a decision this is]]. The surviving prophets start giving clearer and more accurate prophecies as a result.
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* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???
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* '''Played For Drama''': Lumina's visions reveal to her that [[SomeoneDiesTonight one of Sol's friends will make a]] HeroicSacrifice at the next dungeon she's supposed to send them to. She decides not to warn them about this, as [[YouCantFightFate she's already witnessed their demise]] and assumes it's all part of the plan.
to:
* '''Played For Drama''': Lumina's visions reveal to her that [[SomeoneDiesTonight [[TonightSomeoneDies one of Sol's friends will make a]] HeroicSacrifice at the next dungeon she's supposed to send them to. She decides not to warn them about this, as [[YouCantFightFate she's already witnessed their demise]] and assumes it's all part of the plan.