History Main / YeOldeButcheredeEnglishe

17th Jun '16 10:18:48 PM Grade0
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* Godfree speaks in this as part of his persona as TheRoleplayer in ''WebVideo/SwordArtOnlineAbridged''. Kirito and Kuradeel find it irritating.
17th Jun '16 2:42:45 AM CelPrevXXVI
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* PlayedForLaughs in ''Film/TheAvengers2012''.
--> '''Tony Stark/Iron Man''': Doth mother know you weareth her drapes?

to:

* PlayedForLaughs in ''Film/TheAvengers2012''.
''Film/TheAvengers2012'' with Tony Stark throwing this line towards Thor in their first encounter:
--> '''Tony Stark/Iron Man''': Doth '''Stark''' (in his Iron Man suit): Uh... Shakespeare in the park? "Doth mother know you weareth her drapes? drapes?"
11th Jun '16 5:07:59 PM Eievie
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[[caption-width-right:241:[[WebVideo/TheSpoonyExperiment "...and lo, I have slain the beast without thy help, so verily I am bequeathed solo XPs!"]]]]

->''"Alden Bitteroot, I accuseth thee of beingeth a witch! ...Eth."''

to:

[[caption-width-right:241:[[WebVideo/TheSpoonyExperiment "...and "…and lo, I have slain the beast without thy help, so verily I am bequeathed solo XPs!"]]]]

->''"Alden Bitteroot, I accuseth thee of beingeth a witch! ...Eth.witch! …eth."''



This doth makest the characters soundeth like idiots complete to any viewer that possesseth pon a verse of uni degree... especially if it goest on for long passages. Zounds!

to:

This doth makest the characters soundeth like idiots complete to any viewer that possesseth pon a verse of uni degree... degree… especially if it goest on for long passages. Zounds!



The silent "e" is somewhat TruthInTelevision, as after the Great Vowel Shift bMusic/ut before the mid-18th century, there was chaos in spelling, there being no official standards, and the pronunciations no longer being a guide. Words could be spelled however the author felt like spelling them, which is where we get quotes like "...bicauſe [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#History noe .2. thynges, can be moare equalle."]] Complicating this is that medieval writers made just as many spelling errors as we do, and that paper was so expensive to make that no one would have bothered rewriting a text for a few mistakes. These mistakes could then carry on by other writers copying the text, mistakes and all, and introducing mistakes of their own.

The "ye" of "ye olde" is not a plural 'you' (as in "hear ye!"). This is a modern hypercorrection of the Old English letter ''thorn'', which was still used in Early Modern English (the English of Shakespeare's time) as shorthand for "th." (To make matters more confusing, modern typography renders the letter thorn as "Þ", which looks nothing like "y".) So "ye olde" is simply "the old".

Another common error is rooted in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction T-V distinction,]] the difference between familiar and formal ''you'' (''tu-vous'' in French, ''tú-usted'' in Spanish, also many other languages). The formal form was "you" and the informal form was "thou." Gradually the informal "thou" dropped out of use, leaving only "you." Ironically, this makes "thou" sound ''more'' formal in modern English, despite its original job of being the informal form. Partly this comes from the King James Bible, which used thou and you purely as a method of translating the Hebrew singular and plural second person pronouns. This led to thou's use as the pronoun one addresses God with. Furthermore, this is true in many languages - in French for example one prays to God using the informal "tu." But, to be completely fair, though, thou's use as a T pronoun happened amid Middle English's lifespan. Before then, "thou" carried no special implications whatsoever and was merely the way one addressed a single individual (you was purely a plural pronoun at this point). It was only when Norman French influence came in that "thou" became used as a T pronoun and "you" as a V pronoun. So, its modern treatment as "a fancy, oldfangled and poetic singular pronoun" is a bit truer to its very original meaning and use than its meaning and use when it was falling out of favour.

English being a Germanic language, "thou" corresponds to German singular second person ''du'' and flexes the same way: du hast - thou hast, the suffix being -''st'' (thou goest, thou makest, thou stayest, thou art). If you know any German, you may think "thou" and "du" as cognates (which they are). The genetive form of "thou" is "thy" (thy pen), reflexive "thee" (he loves [or loveth] thee) and possessive "thine" (that house is thine).

The suffix -''eth'' is correct for ''third'' person singular: he hath, he goeth, he maketh, he stayeth. The fricative suffix -''eth'' (corresponds to German -et or -t) widened into a siblilant (s) in the 18th century: he has, he goes, he makes, he stays. It is therefore perfectly correct to say "thou writest" but not "thou writeth", as that would be a wrong person form. Likewise "he singeth", but not "he singest".

It can be difficult to find ''any'' examples of early modern English used correctly in TV or movies (though please do note any particularly wretched examples you run across). Interestingly enough, in literature, many characters get it very wrong - because there was no agreed-upon spelling for English words, often the ye olde English isn't butcherede enough.

to:

The silent "e" is somewhat TruthInTelevision, as after the Great Vowel Shift bMusic/ut before the mid-18th century, there was chaos in spelling, there being no official standards, and the pronunciations no longer being a guide. Words could be spelled however the author felt like spelling them, which is where we get quotes like "...bicauſe "…bicauſe [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#History noe .2. thynges, can be moare equalle."]] equalle]]." Complicating this is that medieval writers made just as many spelling errors as we do, and that paper was so expensive to make that no one would have bothered rewriting a text for a few mistakes. These mistakes could then carry on by other writers copying the text, mistakes and all, and introducing mistakes of their own.

The "ye" of "ye olde" is not a plural 'you' "you" (as in "hear ye!"). This is a modern hypercorrection of the Old English letter ''thorn'', which was still used in Early Modern English (the English of Shakespeare's time) as shorthand for "th." "th". (To make matters more confusing, modern typography renders the letter thorn as "Þ", which looks nothing like "y".) So "ye olde" is simply "the old".

Another common error is rooted in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction T-V distinction,]] the difference between familiar and formal ''you'' (''tu-vous'' in French, ''tú-usted'' in Spanish, also many other languages). The formal form was "you" and the informal form was "thou." Gradually the informal "thou" dropped out of use, leaving only "you." Ironically, this makes "thou" sound ''more'' formal in modern English, despite its original job of being the informal form. Partly this comes from the King James Bible, which used thou and you purely as a method of translating the Hebrew singular and plural second person pronouns. This led to thou's use as the pronoun one addresses God with. Furthermore, this is true in many languages - in languages--in French for example one prays to God using the informal "tu." "tu". But, to be completely fair, though, thou's use as a T pronoun happened amid Middle English's lifespan. Before then, "thou" carried no special implications whatsoever and was merely the way one addressed a single individual (you was purely a plural pronoun at this point). It was only when Norman French influence came in that "thou" became used as a T pronoun and "you" as a V pronoun. So, its modern treatment as "a fancy, oldfangled and poetic singular pronoun" is a bit truer to its very original meaning and use than its meaning and use when it was falling out of favour.

English being a Germanic language, "thou" corresponds to German singular second person ''du'' and flexes the same way: du hast - thou hast, the suffix being -''st'' ''-st'' (thou goest, thou makest, thou stayest, thou art). If you know any German, you may think "thou" and "du" as cognates (which they are). The genetive form of "thou" is "thy" (thy pen), reflexive "thee" (he loves [or loveth] thee) and possessive "thine" (that house is thine).

The suffix -''eth'' ''-eth'' is correct for ''third'' person singular: he hath, he goeth, he maketh, he stayeth. The fricative suffix -''eth'' ''-eth'' (corresponds to German -et or -t) widened into a siblilant (s) in the 18th century: he has, he goes, he makes, he stays. It is therefore perfectly correct to say "thou writest" but not "thou writeth", as that would be a wrong person form. Likewise "he singeth", but not "he singest".

It can be difficult to find ''any'' examples of early modern English used correctly in TV or movies (though please do note any particularly wretched examples you run across). Interestingly enough, in literature, many characters get it very wrong - because wrong--because there was no agreed-upon spelling for English words, often the ye olde English isn't butcherede enough.
8th Jun '16 1:59:57 PM Chariset
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And that's why there will be no more [[SelfDemonstratingArticle self-demonstration]] for the rest of this page. Yay! Verily!

to:

And that's why there will be no more [[SelfDemonstratingArticle self-demonstration]] for the rest of this page. Yay! Yea! Verily!



The "ye," as in "ye olde" is not supposed to be pronounced like a "y". This is a modern hypercorrection of the Old English letter ''thorn'', which was still used in Early Modern English (the English of Shakespeare's time) as shorthand to represent the "th" sounds. (To make matters more confusing, modern typography renders the letter thorn as "Þ", which looks nothing like "y".) So "ye olde" actually means and is pronounced as "the old".

to:

The "ye," as in "ye" of "ye olde" is not supposed to be pronounced like a "y". plural 'you' (as in "hear ye!"). This is a modern hypercorrection of the Old English letter ''thorn'', which was still used in Early Modern English (the English of Shakespeare's time) as shorthand to represent the "th" sounds. for "th." (To make matters more confusing, modern typography renders the letter thorn as "Þ", which looks nothing like "y".) So "ye olde" actually means and is pronounced as simply "the old".
old".
31st May '16 9:13:16 AM luisedgarf
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*** Averted, of all games, with the Steam version of ''VideoGame/RPGMaker VX Ace'', as it uses ''Latin American Spanish'' in the translation of the menus and options. Keep in mind ''RPG Maker'' is [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff more popular in Spain than the rest of Latin America]] and it would have more sense, due of the genre of the games you can create and the main target audience, using the European dialect rather than the Latin American one.

to:

*** Averted, of all games, with the Steam version of ''VideoGame/RPGMaker VX Ace'', as it uses ''Latin American Spanish'' in the translation of the menus and options. Keep in mind ''RPG Maker'' is [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff more popular in Spain than the rest of Latin America]] and it would have more sense, due of the genre of the games you can create and the main target audience, using the European dialect rather than the Latin American one. On the other hand, this is subverted in RPG Maker MV, because [[InconsistentDub it uses both dialects instead]].
26th May '16 10:52:14 PM Doug86
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-->Buggre Alle this for a Larke. I amme sick to mye Hart of typefettinge. Master Biltonn if no Gentelmann, and Master Scagges noe more than a tighte fisted Southwarke Knobbefticke. I telle you, onne a daye laike thif Ennywone withe half an oz of Sense shoulde bee oute in the Sunneshain, ane nott Stucke here alle the liuelong daie inn thif mowldey olde By-Our-Lady Workefhoppe. @ *Ӯ@;!*

to:

-->Buggre Alle this for a Larke. I amme sick to mye Hart of typefettinge. Master Biltonn if no Gentelmann, and Master Scagges noe more than a tighte fisted Southwarke Knobbefticke. I telle you, onne a daye laike thif Ennywone withe half an oz of Sense shoulde bee oute in the Sunneshain, ane nott Stucke here alle the liuelong daie inn thif mowldey olde By-Our-Lady Workefhoppe. @ *”Æ@;!**”[=Æ=]@;!*
17th May '16 5:52:31 AM spirasen
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** {{Arcturus}} makes a brave attempt with the song "To Thou Who Dwellest in the Night". Alas, it falls flat already in the title. ("To thou" is a {{hypercorrection}}. It should be "to thee".)

to:

** {{Arcturus}} ''Arcturus'' makes a brave attempt with the song "To Thou Who Dwellest in the Night". Alas, it falls flat already in the title. ("To thou" is a {{hypercorrection}}. It should be "to thee".)
15th May '16 6:14:02 AM morane
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The silent "e" is somewhat TruthInTelevision, as after the Great Vowel Shift but before the mid-18th century, there was chaos in spelling, there being no official standards, and the pronunciations no longer being a guide. Words could be spelled however the author felt like spelling them, which is where we get quotes like "...bicauſe [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#History noe .2. thynges, can be moare equalle."]] Complicating this is that medieval writers made just as many spelling errors as we do, and that paper was so expensive to make that no one would have bothered rewriting a text for a few mistakes. These mistakes could then carry on by other writers copying the text, mistakes and all, and introducing mistakes of their own.

to:

The silent "e" is somewhat TruthInTelevision, as after the Great Vowel Shift but bMusic/ut before the mid-18th century, there was chaos in spelling, there being no official standards, and the pronunciations no longer being a guide. Words could be spelled however the author felt like spelling them, which is where we get quotes like "...bicauſe [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equals_sign#History noe .2. thynges, can be moare equalle."]] Complicating this is that medieval writers made just as many spelling errors as we do, and that paper was so expensive to make that no one would have bothered rewriting a text for a few mistakes. These mistakes could then carry on by other writers copying the text, mistakes and all, and introducing mistakes of their own.



English being a Germanic language, "thou" corresponds to German singular second person ''du'' and flexes the same way: [[Music/Rammstein Du hast]] - thou hast, the suffix being -''st'' (thou goest, thou makest, thou stayest, thou art). If you know any German, you may think "thou" and "du" as cognates (which they are). The genetive form of "thou" is "thy" (thy pen), reflexive "thee" (he loves [or loveth] thee) and possessive "thine" (it's thine vs it's yours).

The suffix -''eth'' is correct for ''third'' person singular: he hath, he goeth, he maketh, he stayeth. The fricative suffix -''eth'' (corresponds to German -et or -t) widened into a siblilanf (s) in the 18th century: he has, he goes, he makes, he stays. It is therefore perfectly correct to say "thou writest" but not "thou writeth", as that would be a wrong person form. Likewise "he singeth", but not "he singest".

to:

English being a Germanic language, "thou" corresponds to German singular second person ''du'' and flexes the same way: [[Music/Rammstein Du hast]] du hast - thou hast, the suffix being -''st'' (thou goest, thou makest, thou stayest, thou art). If you know any German, you may think "thou" and "du" as cognates (which they are). The genetive form of "thou" is "thy" (thy pen), reflexive "thee" (he loves [or loveth] thee) and possessive "thine" (it's thine vs it's yours).

(that house is thine).

The suffix -''eth'' is correct for ''third'' person singular: he hath, he goeth, he maketh, he stayeth. The fricative suffix -''eth'' (corresponds to German -et or -t) widened into a siblilanf siblilant (s) in the 18th century: he has, he goes, he makes, he stays. It is therefore perfectly correct to say "thou writest" but not "thou writeth", as that would be a wrong person form. Likewise "he singeth", but not "he singest".
15th May '16 5:52:40 AM morane
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Added DiffLines:

English being a Germanic language, "thou" corresponds to German singular second person ''du'' and flexes the same way: [[Music/Rammstein Du hast]] - thou hast, the suffix being -''st'' (thou goest, thou makest, thou stayest, thou art). If you know any German, you may think "thou" and "du" as cognates (which they are). The genetive form of "thou" is "thy" (thy pen), reflexive "thee" (he loves [or loveth] thee) and possessive "thine" (it's thine vs it's yours).

The suffix -''eth'' is correct for ''third'' person singular: he hath, he goeth, he maketh, he stayeth. The fricative suffix -''eth'' (corresponds to German -et or -t) widened into a siblilanf (s) in the 18th century: he has, he goes, he makes, he stays. It is therefore perfectly correct to say "thou writest" but not "thou writeth", as that would be a wrong person form. Likewise "he singeth", but not "he singest".
7th May '16 8:06:45 AM anza_sb
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Added DiffLines:

* The "thorn" ("Þ") confusion is discussed in a ''WebVideo/MinutePhysics'' video[[note]]We'll set aside [[ArtifactTitle the fact that a physics channel discusses lingustics]][[/note]]. This shorthand for "th" in handwriting looks a lot like the letter "y", and so when the character is dropped out of usage the letter "y" is assumed instead.
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