History Main / SuicidalPacifism

28th Nov '16 3:14:46 PM Morgenthaler
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** In Jesus' teachings he tells people to turn the other cheek when struck (though ValuesDissonance means that this was much more {{Badass}} in his day than through modern eyes), to repay evil with good, and to show kindness to one's enemies. When his enemies show up to take him to his death, he not only doesn't resist in the least, he heals a man injured by one of his disciples.

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** In Jesus' teachings he tells people to turn the other cheek when struck (though ValuesDissonance means that this was much more {{Badass}} badass in his day than through modern eyes), to repay evil with good, and to show kindness to one's enemies. When his enemies show up to take him to his death, he not only doesn't resist in the least, he heals a man injured by one of his disciples.
27th Nov '16 1:20:32 AM Morgenthaler
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* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]] allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]] allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." "[[note]]Hitler actually did make offhand remarks about Gandhi himself to British politicians during diplomatic meetings between Germany and the UK on how to "deal" with the Indian National Congress that amounted to an escalating series of mass executions until they would be too terrified to resist their colonial overlords.[[/note]] Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).
27th Nov '16 1:12:56 AM Morgenthaler
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* The sad story of the Moriori people of Chatham Islands, who lived by a code of Pacifism that forbade them to kill. When the Maori invaded their island and began to exterminate and eat them, some of the Moriori argued that Pacifism shouldn't apply. In the end however, their chiefs decided that the principle of Pacifism was never intended to be a strategy for survival - it was a moral imperative. Consequently the Moriori allowed themselves to be completely wiped out.

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* The sad story of the Moriori people of Chatham Islands, who lived by a code of Pacifism that forbade them to kill. When the Maori invaded their island and began to exterminate and eat them, some of the Moriori argued that Pacifism shouldn't apply. In the end however, their chiefs decided that the principle of Pacifism was never intended to be a strategy for survival - it was a moral imperative. Consequently the Moriori allowed themselves to be completely wiped out.



* Thích Quảng Đức, the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire in a Saigon street during the VietnamWar as an act of protest. Note that he was not protesting the war itself, but the South Vietnamese government's persecution of Buddhists.
* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]] allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).

to:

* Thích Quảng Đức, the Buddhist monk who set himself on fire in a Saigon street during the VietnamWar as an act of protest. Note that he was not protesting the war itself, but the South Vietnamese government's persecution of Buddhists.
* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]] allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).
Jewish).

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31st Oct '16 3:20:28 PM margdean56
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** Generally the series takes a rather favourable view on this ActualPacifist nature, though many times characters are outright frustrated by it. In the end, [[spoiler: its partially responsible for Rachel's death.]]
* Harry Turtledove's AlternateHistory short story ''The Last Article'' makes Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent resistance movement turn into this after Nazi Germany conquers India from the British Empire - see also the RealLife section.

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** Generally the series takes a rather favourable view on this ActualPacifist nature, though many times characters are outright frustrated by it. In the end, [[spoiler: its it's partially responsible for Rachel's death.]]
* Harry Turtledove's AlternateHistory short story ''The Last Article'' makes Mohandas Gandhi's nonviolent resistance movement turn into this after Nazi Germany conquers India from the British Empire - -- see also the RealLife section.
6th Oct '16 1:25:34 PM Jeduthun
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See also ActualPacifist, TooDumbToLive for when this gets to the point of genuine stupidity, and PerfectPacifistPeople. Related is PacifismBackfire when choosing peaceful ways leads to more problems; in this trope, the problem is ''their own deaths''. SisterTrope to RecklessPacifist, when one's refusal to fight endangers ''other'' people's lives.

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See also ActualPacifist, TooDumbToLive for when this gets to the point of genuine stupidity, and PerfectPacifistPeople. Related is PacifismBackfire when choosing peaceful ways leads to more problems; in this trope, the problem is ''their own deaths''. SisterTrope to RecklessPacifist, when one's refusal to fight endangers ''other'' people's lives.
lives. {{Subtrope}} of PrinciplesZealot.
13th Aug '16 12:34:22 PM nombretomado
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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is. The example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.

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* [[DichterUndDenker [[UsefulNotes/DichterAndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is. The example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.
21st Jul '16 1:43:11 PM Onlythrice
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* [[CloudCuckooLander Wander]] of ''WesternAnimation/WanderOverYonder'' believes that violence is '''never''' the answer, even when dealing with an OmnicidalManiac that destroys galaxies [[ForTheEvulz for fun.]] On one occasion he helped pilot a giant robot during an EnemyMine, but refused to help fight the BigBad and [[ShaggyDogStory allowed her to destroy the robot and the planet they were trying to stop her from destroying.]] When the survivors of her rampage across the galaxy decided to take up arms against her, [[TooDumbToLive he went up to her ship to warn her and attempted to befriend her]]. It went about as well as you'd expect.
18th Jul '16 10:37:01 AM JoieDeCombat
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* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s Gandhi]] allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for.[[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turtledove himself is Jewish).
18th Jul '16 10:23:34 AM longWriter
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* Celia from ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' has shades of this. She's perfectly willing to use her flight to help others survive, but won't harm anyone alive even when they're trying to kill her and reanimate her corpse as a golem (she will zap golems, [[StopHelpingMe but that just made things worse]]). She also has no problem using her lightning zappy beams to create an impressive display as a set up to legally negotiating her way out of the situation.

to:

* Celia from ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' has shades of this. She's perfectly willing to use her flight to help others survive, but won't harm anyone alive even when they're trying to kill her and reanimate her corpse as a golem (she will zap golems, [[StopHelpingMe [[UnwantedAssistance but that just made things worse]]). She also has no problem using her lightning zappy beams to create an impressive display as a set up to legally negotiating her way out of the situation.
30th Jun '16 8:57:26 PM SoapheadChurch
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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is.
** However in actual history, the example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.

to:

* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is.
** However in actual history, the
is. The example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.



* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turdledove himself is Jewish).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. [[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turdledove Turtledove himself is Jewish).
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