History Main / SuicidalPacifism

30th Jun '16 8:57:26 PM SoapheadChurch
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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is.
** However in actual history, the example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.

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* [[DichterUndDenker German philosopher]] Oswald Spengler claimed in ''Literature/TheDeclineOfTheWest'' that this meant the preference of slavery over death (by fighting). As he explained: at the battle of Cannae, 50,000 Roman soldiers died. When the Mongols overran the metropolises of China and the Muslim world, the population didn't want to fight them, and hundreds of thousands of people died. Per metropolis, that is.
** However in actual history, the
is. The example of the Mongols is actually subverted: those cities who capitulated without a fight were generally spared widespread slaughter, and largely peacefully incorporated into the Empire. It was the ones who fought back who would be massacred as an example to the rest.



* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turdledove himself is Jewish).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. [[note]]More charitable interpretations of Gandhi's statements suggest that the Jews had nothing to lose by non-violent resistance, since they were destined for a horrible death regardless, and Gandhi's suggestion was a via media between doing nothing and fighting a losing battle. Less favorable interpretations suggest that Gandhi actually supported the Nazi regime, since they were fighting a war against the imperial powers of Britain and France.[[/note]] With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view, as Turdledove Turtledove himself is Jewish).
9th Jun '16 9:17:51 PM Fireblood
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* In ''[[http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/jain/01.html The Jain's Death]]'', a Jainist monk refuses to harm any living thing, which includes practices like eating only fruit and carrying a broom to carefully sweep away insects. Her death comes about when she is confronted by a tiger, but refuses to run because of an ant in her hair that she refuses to take from its colony. [[spoiler:However, this trope is subverted when she is resurrected in another life as an organic mothership, now carrying every living thing from Earth. One could interpret it as TheCuckoolanderWasRight.]]

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* In ''[[http://www.electricsheepcomix.com/jain/01.html The Jain's Death]]'', a Jainist monk refuses to harm any living thing, which includes practices like eating only fruit and carrying a broom to carefully sweep away insects. Her death comes about when she is confronted by a tiger, but refuses to run because of an ant in her hair that she refuses to take from its colony. [[spoiler:However, this trope is subverted when she is resurrected reincarnated in another life as an organic mothership, now carrying every living thing from Earth. One could interpret it as TheCuckoolanderWasRight. The comic as a whole is pretty sympathetic to Jain beliefs, from what one can tell.]]



* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view).view, as Turdledove himself is Jewish).
9th Jun '16 10:57:31 AM AHI-3000
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* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet [[FearlessFool foolish]]) [[ActualPacifist devout pacifist]]. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while [[GotVolunteered forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will]]. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being [[DeathSeeker a wannabe martyr with a death wish]].

to:

* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is was a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet [[FearlessFool foolish]]) [[ActualPacifist devout pacifist]]. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while [[GotVolunteered forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will]]. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being [[DeathSeeker a wannabe martyr with a death wish]].
9th Jun '16 10:55:50 AM AHI-3000
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* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet [[FearlessFool foolish]]) devout pacifist. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being a wannabe martyr with a death wish.

to:

* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet [[FearlessFool foolish]]) [[ActualPacifist devout pacifist. pacifist]]. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while [[GotVolunteered forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will. will]]. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being [[DeathSeeker a wannabe martyr with a death wish.
wish]].
9th Jun '16 9:37:34 AM AHI-3000
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* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet foolish) devout pacifist. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being a wannabe martyr with a death wish.

to:

* During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode "Freedom Ride or Die", we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet foolish) [[FearlessFool foolish]]) devout pacifist. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs and trigger-happy policemen, while forcing Robert to endure all these ordeals against his will. Robert even outright accuses Sturdy of being a wannabe martyr with a death wish.
6th Jun '16 3:58:02 PM AHI-3000
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* ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'': The episode ,"Freedom Ride Or Die", explores Robert's participation in the Civil Rights Movement- namely, he ''accidentally'' boarded a Freedom Rider bus commanded by a pacifist reverend who is willing to dive into angry, racist mobs, and trigger-happy Birmingham Police all in the name of "the cause" with no clear goal. [[OnlySaneMan Robert himself]] tries to head North, or fight back against racists, but the reverend prevents him from doing either. An activist Robert met remarks, "The strategy of non-violent, direct action, when you think about it, is completely insane."

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'': The During ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' episode ,"Freedom "Freedom Ride Or or Die", explores Robert's participation in the Civil Rights Movement- namely, we learn that when Robert Freeman was young, he ''accidentally'' boarded a [[UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Freedom Rider bus commanded by a pacifist reverend who Rider]] bus. The leader of the group, Reverend Sturdy Harris, is willing to dive into angry, a very [[BadassPacifist brave]] (yet foolish) devout pacifist. Sturdy eagerly led his group right through angry racist mobs, mobs and trigger-happy Birmingham Police all in the name of "the cause" with no clear goal. [[OnlySaneMan policemen, while forcing Robert himself]] tries to head North, or fight back endure all these ordeals against racists, but the reverend prevents him from doing either. An activist his will. Robert met remarks, "The strategy even outright accuses Sturdy of non-violent, direct action, when you think about it, is completely insane."
being a wannabe martyr with a death wish.
28th May '16 9:12:09 PM redandready45
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to:

* ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'': The episode ,"Freedom Ride Or Die", explores Robert's participation in the Civil Rights Movement- namely, he ''accidentally'' boarded a Freedom Rider bus commanded by a pacifist reverend who is willing to dive into angry, racist mobs, and trigger-happy Birmingham Police all in the name of "the cause" with no clear goal. [[OnlySaneMan Robert himself]] tries to head North, or fight back against racists, but the reverend prevents him from doing either. An activist Robert met remarks, "The strategy of non-violent, direct action, when you think about it, is completely insane."
29th Apr '16 10:13:49 AM JoieDeCombat
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* The citizens of Fisherman's Horizon in ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII'' oppose the use of violence, maintaining their belief that conflict can and should be resolved through peaceful communication. When the army of the BigBad shows up to occupy the town, the mayor walks out alone to try to negotiate, refusing any help from the heroes with the argument that getting them involved will only escalate matters; he is nearly killed before the party intervenes. Notably, not everyone in town is of equal mind on the subject - Mayor Dobe's wife Flo is quick to change her tune and demand that the heroes do something about the situation when the soldiers start showing up.
29th Apr '16 9:55:13 AM Hadjorim
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* The sad story of the Moriori people of Chatham Islands, whom the Maori of New Zealand almost completely slaughtered or enslaved within a few years.

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* The sad story of the Moriori people of Chatham Islands, whom who lived by a code of Pacifism that forbade them to kill. When the Maori invaded their island and began to exterminate and eat them, some of New Zealand almost the Moriori argued that Pacifism shouldn't apply. In the end however, their chiefs decided that the principle of Pacifism was never intended to be a strategy for survival - it was a moral imperative. Consequently the Moriori allowed themselves to be completely slaughtered or enslaved within a few years.wiped out.
28th Apr '16 11:01:31 PM Fireblood
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* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view).

to:

* [[UsefulNotes/MahatmaGandhi Mohandas Gandhi]]'s allegedly believed that the Jews should willingly kill themselves or give themselves over to slaughter by UsefulNotes/NaziGermany rather than employ violence against their aggressors, or that they should resist by nonviolence alone in spite of knowing the DisproportionateRetribution that Hitler's regime had become known for. With the exception of several areas occupied by Japanese military forces and the Axis-aligned Indian National Army (the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and parts of Manipur and Nagaland) India remained under Allied control for the duration of World War II so this policy was never put to the test on a large scale. However, during their presence in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, the Japanese did prove that any resistance or suspected resistance to the Axis war effort would not be tolerated, and would be punished by imprisonment, forced labor, or summary execution. When the true scope of the Nazi Germany's plans became understood later on, Gandhi had to admit that even if passive resistance ''could'' work against the Nazi war machine, it would be "not without great losses." Creator/HarryTurtledove wrote a short story of AlternateHistory in which Nazi Germany occupies India and Gandhi tries his ''satyagraha'' tactics against them, to total disaster (possibly a TakeThat against his view).
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