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* ''[[CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow]]'' has protagonist Soma Cruz harassed by [[OddlySmallOrganization a three-member cult called "With Light"]] that believes in this trope. For {{God}} to be Perfect Good, there must be Perfect Evil to oppose Him, in the form of the Dark Lord, a role that Soma's previous incarnation, {{Dracula}}, filled for [[VideoGame/CastlevaniaLamentOfInnocence just over a thousand years]]. Leader [[BigBad Celia Fortner]] decides that, if Soma is going to defy his destiny, as he did in the previous game ''Aria of Sorrow'', then she'll just have to kill him or find [[TheLostLenore a way to change his mind]]. [[NonStandardGameOver If she succeeds]], it doesn't end well for her.

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* ''[[CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow ''[[VideoGame/CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow]]'' has protagonist Soma Cruz harassed by [[OddlySmallOrganization a three-member cult called "With Light"]] that believes in this trope. For {{God}} to be Perfect Good, there must be Perfect Evil to oppose Him, in the form of the Dark Lord, a role that Soma's previous incarnation, {{Dracula}}, filled for [[VideoGame/CastlevaniaLamentOfInnocence just over a thousand years]]. Leader [[BigBad Celia Fortner]] decides that, if Soma is going to defy his destiny, as he did in the previous game ''Aria of Sorrow'', then she'll just have to kill him or find [[TheLostLenore a way to change his mind]]. [[NonStandardGameOver If she succeeds]], it doesn't end well for her.
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* ''[[CastlevaniaChroniclesOfSorrow Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow]]'' has protagonist Soma Cruz harassed by [[OddlySmallOrganization a three-member cult called "With Light"]] that believes in this trope. For {{God}} to be Perfect Good, there must be Perfect Evil to oppose Him, in the form of the Dark Lord, a role that Soma's previous incarnation, {{Dracula}}, filled for [[VideoGame/CastlevaniaLamentOfInnocence just over a thousand years]]. Leader [[BigBad Celia Fortner]] decides that, if Soma is going to defy his destiny, as he did in the previous game ''Aria of Sorrow'', then she'll just have to kill him or find [[TheLostLenore a way to change his mind]]. [[NonStandardGameOver If she succeeds]], it doesn't end well for her.
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* In ''VideoGame/ShuyanSaga'', Master Shan believes this, and therefore rejects the idea that wanting to eliminate evil is sufficient reason for learning martial arts.
--> '''Master Shan:''' It is not wrong to stop evil when you come across it. But you cannot fight evil for the sake of ridding it from the world. You will never succeed. The bad exists so that people can truly understand what good is.
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Apparently I can't write without errors.


* ''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' All-Might gives a speech about this trope to Deku. He talks about Justice wouldn't exist without any wrongs to right. However, unlike most examples, he's giving the speech to encourage Deku to fight until the day comes that Justice is no longer needed.

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* ''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' All-Might gives a speech about this trope to Deku. He talks about how Justice wouldn't exist without any wrongs to right. However, unlike most examples, he's giving the speech to encourage Deku to fight until the day comes that Justice is no longer needed.
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''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' All-Might gives a speech about this trope to Deku. He talks about Justice wouldn't exist without any wrongs to right. However he's giving the speech to encourage Deku to fight until the day comes that Justice is no longer needed.

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* ''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' All-Might gives a speech about this trope to Deku. He talks about Justice wouldn't exist without any wrongs to right. However However, unlike most examples, he's giving the speech to encourage Deku to fight until the day comes that Justice is no longer needed.
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''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' All-Might gives a speech about this trope to Deku. He talks about Justice wouldn't exist without any wrongs to right. However he's giving the speech to encourage Deku to fight until the day comes that Justice is no longer needed.
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** Of course the priest he's talking to immediately shows just how his argument is flawed.

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** Of course the priest he's talking to immediately shows just how his argument is flawed.flawed when Zorg [[spoiler:starts choking on a single cherry he drinks with water at the end of his speech. None of the tech or pet Zorg summons to try and save him can do so in his panicked and frantic actions. Vito notes that his whole empire is crashing down because of one single cherry. Only when Vito, despite having no love for the man, saves his life by slapping him on the back, is Zorg safe]].
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Do not wick to self.


* In ''Literature/InterviewingLeather'', Leather asserts this philosophy, claiming not only that GoodNeedsEvil, but that the superheroes need villains not to just be "porn stars in capes." The protagonist, who is developing StockholmSyndrome, buys into it until [[HeroAntagonist Darkhood]] shows up and the series switches from {{Deconstruction}} to {{Reconstruction}}.

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* In ''Literature/InterviewingLeather'', Leather asserts this philosophy, claiming not only that GoodNeedsEvil, this trope is true, but that the superheroes need villains not to just be "porn stars in capes." The protagonist, who is developing StockholmSyndrome, buys into it until [[HeroAntagonist Darkhood]] shows up and the series switches from {{Deconstruction}} to {{Reconstruction}}.
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* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff didn't fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.

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* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff didn't fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.not smart enough.
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* In a DLC mission for ''VideoGame/SenranKagura: Estival Versus'', Miyabi and Homura talk about their ideals of evil. In the case of Miyabi, she wants to uphold a certain standard to evil so that the righteous have a way to flourish.
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* ''Film/HellraiserJudgement'': The angel Jophiel uses the argument that good cannot exist without evil to [[spoiler:let a serial killer roam free]]. Pinhead sees right through it, pointing out that what really concerns Heaven is continued devotion.
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* Played straight in ''Literature/TimeOfContempt'', in a conversation between Geralt and Codringher, where Codringher rightfully points out that the exact thing witchers strive to achieve is a world that doesn't need witchers.

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* Played straight in ''Literature/TimeOfContempt'', ''Literature/TheTimeOfContempt'', in a conversation between Geralt and Codringher, where Codringher rightfully points out that the exact thing witchers strive to achieve is a world that doesn't need witchers.
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* Played straight in ''Literature/TimeOfContempt'', in a conversation between Geralt and Codringher, where Codringher rightfully points out that the exact thing witchers strive to achieve is a world that doesn't need witchers.
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do we have a Useful Notes page on stoicism?

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** The ancient philosophers Heraclitus and (following him) Chrysippus claim that good without evil is ''logically'' impossible: "There can be nothing more inept than the people who suppose that good could have existed without the existence of evil. Good and evil being antithetical, both must needs subsist in opposition." [[note]] As quoted by Bertrand Russell in ''The History of Western Philosophy'', p. 257[[/note]]
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* {{Discussed|Trope}} in ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'', where one of Literature/{{the Cosmere}}'s sixteen PiecesOfGod is Odium, the Shard of Hatred. Odium contends that his domain is actually Passion in all its forms and that his influence is necessary for humanity to strive and thrive; others say that that's a self-serving lie, and indeed, those most influenced by him tend to lash out and claim that their actions are NeverMyFault rather than act constructively. One person argues that the trope is {{inverted|Trope}}, as "He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context".
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Has nothing to do with familiarity with in-universe fiction.


* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not to fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.

to:

* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not to didn't fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In ''InterviewingLeather'', Leather asserts this philosophy, claiming not only that GoodNeedsEvil, but that the superheroes need villains not to just be "porn stars in capes." The protagonist, who is developing StockholmSyndrome, buys into it until [[HeroAntagonist Darkhood]] shows up and the series switches from {{Deconstruction}} to {{Reconstruction}}.

to:

* In ''InterviewingLeather'', ''Literature/InterviewingLeather'', Leather asserts this philosophy, claiming not only that GoodNeedsEvil, but that the superheroes need villains not to just be "porn stars in capes." The protagonist, who is developing StockholmSyndrome, buys into it until [[HeroAntagonist Darkhood]] shows up and the series switches from {{Deconstruction}} to {{Reconstruction}}.
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None

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* In ''Videogame/DiabloIII'' the titular character of the ''Rise of the Necromancer'' expansion believes in this trope, that the eternal conflict between light and dark is necessary for the stability and survival of the world.
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* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.

to:

* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not to fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not.
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* In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "[Recap/DoctorWhoS34E2IntoTheDalek Into the Dalek]]", the Doctor tells Rusty that he didn't know who he was until he met the Daleks: not them.

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* In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "[Recap/DoctorWhoS34E2IntoTheDalek "[[Recap/DoctorWhoS34E2IntoTheDalek Into the Dalek]]", the Doctor tells Rusty that he didn't know who he was until he met the Daleks: not them.
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* The major theme of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' is that the forces of Heaven and Hell should be balanced rather than letting one win over the other.

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* The major theme of ''Literature/GoodOmens'' is that the forces of Heaven {{Heaven}} and Hell {{Hell}} should be balanced rather than letting one win over the other.



* In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "Into the Dalek", the Doctor tells Rusty that he didn't know who he was until he met the Daleks: not them.

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* In the ''Series/DoctorWho'' episode "Into "[Recap/DoctorWhoS34E2IntoTheDalek Into the Dalek", Dalek]]", the Doctor tells Rusty that he didn't know who he was until he met the Daleks: not them.



* A different spin on this is pretty standard Christian theology, though: simply put, you can't truly do good if you don't have a choice to do evil. Hence all the bad things in the world--if God got rid of them, he would be taking away our free will so we would just be robots. Of course, some object to this idea (for instance pointing out many bad things which don't come from free will, like diseases).

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* A different spin on this is pretty standard Christian theology, though: simply put, you can't truly do good if you don't have a choice to do evil. Hence all the bad things in the world--if God {{God}} got rid of them, he would be taking away our free will so we would just be robots. Of course, some object to this idea (for instance pointing out many bad things which don't come from free will, like diseases).
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-->'''Darkness:''' You think you have won! What is light without dark? What are you without me? I am a part of you all. [[AslongAsThereIsEvil You can never defeat me]]. We are brothers... eternal!

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-->'''Darkness:''' You think you have won! What is light without dark? What are you without me? I am a part of you all. [[AslongAsThereIsEvil [[AsLongAsThereIsEvil You can never defeat me]]. We are brothers... eternal!
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* This is a pervasive theme in ''Disney/WreckItRalph''. Felix may be the celebrated hero of his game (and Ralph is the villain who's even looked down on behind the scene), but without Ralph to do his part, he's just a guy with a hammer and nothing to use it on. Worse, without Ralph, his game gets flagged as broken and scheduled to be disconnected.
* During Satan's song in ''WesternAnimation/SouthParkBiggerLongerAndUncut'', he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".

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* This is a pervasive theme in ''Disney/WreckItRalph''. Felix may be the celebrated hero of his game (and Ralph is the villain who's even looked down on even behind the scene), scenes), but without Ralph to do his part, he's just a guy with a hammer and nothing to use it on. Worse, without Ralph, his game gets flagged as broken and scheduled to be disconnected.
* During Satan's {{Satan}}'s song in ''WesternAnimation/SouthParkBiggerLongerAndUncut'', he sings "without evil there could be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes".



* When [[Literature/TheDresdenFiles Harry]] gets possessed, he gives a plausible argument to the Fallen Angel (Lasciel's imprint) that in possessing him, there's a risk of ''making him a better person'' if he survives with his sanity. Given the circumstances, it's not implausible. [[spoiler:Later not only is he a greater force of good, but he ends up turning her into a force of Good once more as she willingly dies to save Harry.]]

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* When [[Literature/TheDresdenFiles Harry]] In ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'', when Harry gets possessed, possessed he gives a plausible argument to the Fallen Angel (Lasciel's imprint) that in possessing him, there's a risk of ''making him a better person'' if he survives with his sanity. Given the circumstances, it's not implausible. [[spoiler:Later not only is he a greater force of good, but he ends up turning her into a force of Good once more as she willingly dies to save Harry.]]
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Fridge Horror ensues when you think about EVERY BlackAndWhiteMorality story that had a happy ending - without Evil, the story wouldn't exist, and now that evil has been defeated, it's only a matter of time until the forces of good are eventually weakened from the lack of evil and meet a fitting end - like death of old age / corruption / immediate cessation of existence at the end of the story. Think about it - how many {{MMORPG}}s would shut down if all the enemies were taken out of the game?

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Fridge Horror FridgeHorror ensues when you think about EVERY BlackAndWhiteMorality story that had a happy ending - without Evil, the story wouldn't exist, and now that evil has been defeated, it's only a matter of time until the forces of good are eventually weakened from the lack of evil and meet a fitting end - like death of old age / corruption / immediate cessation of existence at the end of the story. Think about it - how many {{MMORPG}}s would shut down if all the enemies were taken out of the game?
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Evil brings out the best in people. Yes, you read that right. Without true evil to fight, Superman would spend his life getting cats out of trees.

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Evil brings out the best in people. Yes, you read that right. Without true evil to fight, Superman Franchise/{{Superman}} would spend his life getting cats out of trees.



* ''Anime/DragonballSuper'': Gowasu, the Supreme Kai and guardian deity of Universe 10, states his opinion that this is true: if evil did not exist to provide conflict and challenges, then good people would have no opportunity to learn and grow. He includes the gods themselves in this, stating that they are not all-wise and even they have lessons they need to learn. This is in contrast to his apprentice Zamasu, who believes that evil should be eliminated entirely, which sounds alright until you realize that anyone who was anything less than perfectly good in Zamasu's eyes would be killed, which includes pretty much ''every mortal being in existence''.

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* ''Anime/DragonballSuper'': ''Anime/DragonBallSuper'': Gowasu, the Supreme Kai and guardian deity of Universe 10, states his opinion that this is true: if evil did not exist to provide conflict and challenges, then good people would have no opportunity to learn and grow. He includes the gods themselves in this, stating that they are not all-wise and even they have lessons they need to learn. This is in contrast to his apprentice Zamasu, who believes that evil should be eliminated entirely, which sounds alright until you realize that anyone who was anything less than perfectly good in Zamasu's eyes would be killed, which includes pretty much ''every mortal being in existence''.



* SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, especially in the comics, practically defines himself in his opposition to Franchise/{{Batman}}, and feels they need each other, and their eternal struggle of good vs evil, to exist.

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* SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker, ComicBook/TheJoker, especially in the comics, practically defines himself in his opposition to Franchise/{{Batman}}, and feels they need each other, and their eternal struggle of good vs evil, to exist.
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* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not like this.

to:

* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not like this.not.
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None


* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right.

to:

* During the glory years of the American UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement, Martin Luther King Jr. would try to set up protests in Southern cities he knew were run by brutal bigots like "Bull" Connor in Birmingham, Alabama. In short, King gambled that those bullies would be so heavy-handed in front of TV cameras that viewers across the nation would be outraged at the violence. As it happened, most of those foes took the bait with vicious gusto, therefore proving him right. Only one local sheriff was {{genre savvy}} enough not fall for it, and completely defeated them. Thankfully most were not like this.
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[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
* ''Anime/DragonballSuper'': Gowasu, the Supreme Kai and guardian deity of Universe 10, states his opinion that this is true: if evil did not exist to provide conflict and challenges, then good people would have no opportunity to learn and grow. He includes the gods themselves in this, stating that they are not all-wise and even they have lessons they need to learn. This is in contrast to his apprentice Zamasu, who believes that evil should be eliminated entirely, which sounds alright until you realize that anyone who was anything less than perfectly good in Zamasu's eyes would be killed, which includes pretty much ''every mortal being in existence''.
[[/folder]]
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* A chapter quote from Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin's ''[[Literature/EarthseaTrilogy A Wizard of Earthsea]]''.
-->Only in silence the word,
-->only in dark the light,
-->only in dying life:
-->bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky.
--->From "The Creation of Ea", an Earthsea poem

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* A chapter quote from Creator/UrsulaKLeGuin's ''[[Literature/EarthseaTrilogy A Wizard of Earthsea]]''.
''Literature/AWizardOfEarthsea''.
-->Only in silence the word,
-->only
word,\\
only
in dark the light,
-->only
light,\\
only
in dying life:
-->bright
life:\\
bright
the hawk's flight on the empty sky.
--->From
sky.\\
-- From
"The Creation of Ea", an Earthsea poem
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-->--'''[[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity Joker's Song]] by Music/MiracleOfSound'''

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-->--'''[[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity -->-- Music/MiracleOfSound, "[[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity Joker's Song]] by Music/MiracleOfSound'''
Song]]"

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