History Main / ButThouMust

20th Sep '17 1:24:08 PM DoubleU
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''VideoGame/HellCab'', when you get back from the Empire State Building for the first time, and he says he's never been to the top of it, your only choices to continue the conversation are "huh" and "now what?" - both of which simply take you to your next stop on the itinerary.
7th Sep '17 1:56:36 PM StyxD
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* While ''VideoGame/{{Tyranny}}'' offers many possible paths to take, it only allows choosing them at jarringly arbitrary times. For the most part, you can break off your current allegiance near the start of any quest line, but if you pass that point you're committed, and the game will flat out not offer any dialogue options that would disobey your current superior. Even if it would be [[StupidityIsTheOnlyOption sensible]] or dramatically appropriate to do so. For example, you cannot prevent [[spoiler:the Voices of Nerat]] from gaining access to the forbidden [[spoiler:Silent Archive]] once you get a hold of it, or stop the same Archon from taking a terrified mother and her infant into his "[[FateWorseThanDeath custody]]", even though the woman and possibly some of your party members outright beg you to intervene.
7th Sep '17 1:15:11 PM Yigito123
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The other Creator/ParadoxInteractive games also refer to it. In ''[[VideoGame/CrusaderKings Crusader Kings 2]]'', when a character is trying to improve his learning, you might have an event in which you realise that "So it's not an omen, after all ..." (+1 learning). Similarly, in ''[[VideoGame/VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun Victoria II]]'', there is a [[CallBack Comet Sighted!]] event, which gives you a temporary advantage to research: The tooltip reads "Thank God we live in such enlightened times!".

to:

* The other Creator/ParadoxInteractive games also refer to it. In ''[[VideoGame/CrusaderKings Crusader Kings 2]]'', when a character is trying to improve his learning, you might have an event in which you realise that "So it's not an omen, after all ..." (+1 learning). Similarly, in ''[[VideoGame/VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun Victoria II]]'', there is a [[CallBack Comet Sighted!]] event, which gives you a temporary advantage to research: The tooltip reads "Thank God we live in such enlightened times!". Also also, in ''[[VideoGame/HeartsOfIron Hearts of Iron IV]]'', there is an event called "Komet Sighted", about the first test flight of the German Me 163 Komet Rocket Interceptor. It's effect? "Lose 1 stability. [[CrowningMomentofFunny A vase falls over.]]" Hearts of Iron doesn't have stability.
6th Sep '17 8:48:59 AM KingLyger
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** You can't leave the area where the Mana Sword is (your progress is balked by an InsurmountableWaistHighFence that can only be chopped down by bladed weapons) until you remove it from its pedestal.
** Interestingly, the game offers some leeway with regard to when you recruit Primm. In one scenario, Randi is nearly [[DistressedDude turned into soup]] by some goblins, but Primm quickly saves you when they are distracted; she can later be found bickering with her father at the castle. In another, Randi encounters her in the forest, where she demands his help to rescue Dyluck. This is one pig-headed lady.

to:

** You can't leave the area where the Mana Sword is (your until you remove it from its pedestal. Your progress is balked stopped by an InsurmountableWaistHighFence that can only be chopped down by bladed weapons) until you remove it from its pedestal.
** Interestingly,
the game offers some leeway with regard sword.
** You have no choice but
to when you recruit Primm. Primm/the Girl at some point. In one scenario, Randi Randi/the Boy is nearly [[DistressedDude turned into soup]] by some goblins, but Primm quickly saves you him when they are distracted; she can later be found bickering with her father at the castle. In another, If you choose not to recruit her there, Randi encounters will bump into her anyway in the forest, Witch's Forest, where she demands his help to rescue Dyluck. This is one pig-headed lady.forces her way into your party.


Added DiffLines:

* Several conversations in ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'' can have Joker/the protagonist refuse to go through with an idea or express doubt about an upcoming plan, and yet the game continues as if he hadn't said it. At one point, he can even refuse to be the leader of the Phantom Thieves, and the other characters basically browbeat him into it.
5th Sep '17 5:38:22 AM KingLyger
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/SecretOfMana'' does this quite a bit.
** You can't refuse to bring Popoie/the Sprite along with you after clearing the underground cave. Saying "no" will just have the circus master say "oh, please!" and offer you the choices again until you say "yes."
** You can't leave the area where the Mana Sword is (your progress is balked by an InsurmountableWaistHighFence that can only be chopped down by bladed weapons) until you remove it from its pedestal.
** Interestingly, the game offers some leeway with regard to when you recruit Primm. In one scenario, Randi is nearly [[DistressedDude turned into soup]] by some goblins, but Primm quickly saves you when they are distracted; she can later be found bickering with her father at the castle. In another, Randi encounters her in the forest, where she demands his help to rescue Dyluck. This is one pig-headed lady.
** When Gesthar tries the whole [[HostageForMacGuffin hostage stunt with Luka for the Water Mana Seed]], you ''can'' take Luka's advice and just run for it, but Gesthar will forcefully pull you back and call you an idiot for trying to escape.
** The King of Matango asks you what you think of the name "Flammie" for your flying dragon mount. In an interesting twist, both of the choices you're offered have you say that you think the name is dumb. But the king interrupts you before you can even make a selection and say that ''of course'' you think the name is amazing.
28th Aug '17 7:43:15 AM merotoker
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VideoGame/MegaManZero 2'' you are asked early on to help the replied Resistance; the game won't continue until you say yes.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/MegaManZero 2'' you are asked early on to help the replied Reploid Resistance; the game won't continue until you say yes.
28th Aug '17 7:39:53 AM merotoker
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VideoGame/Rayman2'', you are given the choice whether or not to accept a haul of treasure. You get a plot-advancing potion if you decline, and a NonStandardGameOver if you accept.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/Rayman2'', you are given the choice whether or not to accept a haul of treasure. You get a plot-advancing potion if you decline, and a NonStandardGameOver NonstandardGameOver if you accept.



* In ''VideoGame/MegaManZero 2'' you are asked early on to help the reploid Resistance, the game won't continue until you say yes.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/MegaManZero 2'' you are asked early on to help the reploid Resistance, replied Resistance; the game won't continue until you say yes.



* In ''Disney/{{Pinocchio}}'', attempting to exit the first level via Easy Street summons the Blue Fairy, who takes away everything you picked up and sends you back to the start. After Geppetto falls in the water at the end of the final level, if you try walking left instead of going right to save him, you lose a life and have to replay the level.

to:

* In ''Disney/{{Pinocchio}}'', the ''Disney/{{Pinocchio}}'' LicensedGame, attempting to exit the first level via Easy Street summons the Blue Fairy, who takes away everything you picked up and sends you back to the start. After Geppetto falls in the water at the end of the final level, if you try walking left instead of going right to save him, you lose a life and have to replay the level.



** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'' has at least one NonstandardGameOver and one [[MultipleEndings Bad End]] you can get this way. In the case of the Bad End, you earn it by [[spoiler:refusing to use the Rune of Punishment on the flaming ships about to ram your headquarters, even while your strategist, mentor and ''everyone else'' around you ''begs'' you to just use the damn Rune. It's pretty much a TooDumbToLive moment, even though ''overusing the Rune can kill you''... Damned if you do...]]

to:

** ''VideoGame/SuikodenIV'' has at least one NonstandardGameOver and one [[MultipleEndings Bad End]] you can get this way. In the case of the Bad End, you earn it by [[spoiler:refusing to use the Rune of Punishment on the flaming ships about to ram your headquarters, even while your strategist, mentor and ''everyone else'' around you ''begs'' you to just use the damn Rune. It's pretty much a TooDumbToLive moment, even though ''overusing the Rune can kill you''... Damned if you do...]]do..]].



** Later in ''Suikoden V'', an overwhelming enemy force marches on your castle. You have the option of either abandoning the castle and letting them take it, or drawing the line and taking a stand. If you choose to take a stand, several of your most experienced generals and advisers try to talk you out of it, one after another -- but if you keep insisting, they actually all fall in line, and you face the enemy head-on. A very difficult battle ensues, in which at least one of your companions ''will'' die. [[spoiler:Conversely, abandoning the castle instead will lead to a smashing victory for your side, as falling back turns out to have been part of your strategist's {{plan}}. Of course, it would have been nice if [[YouDidntAsk she'd told you that...]]]]

to:

** Later in ''Suikoden V'', an overwhelming enemy force marches on your castle. You have the option of either abandoning the castle and letting them take it, or drawing the line and taking a stand. If you choose to take a stand, several of your most experienced generals and advisers try to talk you out of it, one after another -- but if you keep insisting, they actually all fall in line, and you face the enemy head-on. A very difficult battle ensues, in which at least one of your companions ''will'' die. [[spoiler:Conversely, abandoning the castle instead will lead to a smashing victory for your side, as falling back turns out to have been part of your strategist's {{plan}}.[[ThePlan plan]]. Of course, it would have been nice if [[YouDidntAsk she'd told you that...]]]]



* Another, particularly egregious Final Fantasy example appears in the ending of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'', where much is made of the following decision: [[spoiler: whether Noel should go through with killing Caius or spare his life]]. The game even provides a button-press option to choose between the two. But this is frustratingly betrayed by the plot in an example of [[ButThouMust But Thou Must]], because [[spoiler: even if you choose to "spare" Caius, he commits suicide anyway and the exact same events unfold]]; this is doubly frustrating because [[spoiler: according to the plot, Caius has a death wish and only Noel can kill him, but suddenly he can commit suicide using Noel's sword without Noel's volition - a sword that was never at any point in the plot described as having special Caius-killing power - raising the obvious question: why didn't Caius just off himself years ago if he didn't need Noel to kill him? Argh!]]

to:

* Another, particularly egregious Final Fantasy example appears in the ending of ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIII2'', where much is made of the following decision: [[spoiler: whether Noel should go through with killing Caius or spare his life]]. The game even provides a button-press option to choose between the two. But this is frustratingly betrayed by the plot in an example of [[ButThouMust But Thou Must]], this trope, because [[spoiler: even if you choose to "spare" Caius, he commits suicide anyway and the exact same events unfold]]; this is doubly frustrating because [[spoiler: according to the plot, Caius has a death wish and only Noel can kill him, but suddenly he can commit suicide using Noel's sword without Noel's volition - a sword that was never at any point in the plot described as having special Caius-killing power - raising the obvious question: why didn't Caius just off himself years ago if he didn't need Noel to kill him? Argh!]]Argh]]!



** At the beginning of the game, after having been killed and sent to Yomotsu Hirasaka, Dagda offers to revive you in exchange for becoming his PeoplePuppet. If you persist in refusing, you'll simply stay in the afterlife and the game will end, causing the events of ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV'' to happen as usual.

to:

** At the beginning of the game, after having been killed and sent to Yomotsu Hirasaka, Dagda offers to revive you in exchange for becoming his PeoplePuppet.{{People Puppet|s}}. If you persist in refusing, you'll simply stay in the afterlife and the game will end, causing the events of ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV'' to happen as usual.



** Case 1-4 in ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney'' has an infamous example of this: Phoenix has discovered evidence that another character has tampered with the case and may be involved in the murder themselves. However, the game will not proceed to the trial until you ''show this evidence to the character in question''! At which point they [[spoiler:promptly stun you and take away the decisive evidence to destroy it.]]

to:

** Case 1-4 in ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney'' has an infamous example of this: Phoenix has discovered evidence that another character has tampered with the case and may be involved in the murder themselves. However, the game will not proceed to the trial until you ''show this evidence to the character in question''! At which point they [[spoiler:promptly stun you and take away the decisive evidence to destroy it.]]it]].



* In the Chapter 5 trial of ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa'', you get pitted against Kyoko Kirigiri, who's been your closest ally thus far, as in order to fend off suspicion that she's the murderer, she's allowing it to fall on the player character, Makoto, instead. Near the end of the trial, you're presented with a SadisticChoice; [[spoiler:expose a lie Kirigiri's told and clear yourself of suspicion, but also play right into Monokuma's plans, or let her lie slide and become the prime suspect. Exposing Kirigiri results in her execution and the game's bad ending, and you're taken back to the decision point so that you choose to take the fall yourself instead.]]

to:

* In the Chapter 5 trial of ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa'', you get pitted against Kyoko Kirigiri, who's been your closest ally thus far, as in order to fend off suspicion that she's the murderer, she's allowing it to fall on the player character, Makoto, instead. Near the end of the trial, you're presented with a SadisticChoice; [[spoiler:expose a lie Kirigiri's told and clear yourself of suspicion, but also play right into Monokuma's plans, or let her lie slide and become the prime suspect. Exposing Kirigiri results in her execution and the game's bad ending, and you're taken back to the decision point so that you choose to take the fall yourself instead.]]instead]].



* Naturally used for some of ''VisualNovel/LittleBusters'''s [[MultipleEndings bad ends]], but by far the most memorable and dramatic example occurs near the end of the game where [[spoiler:Riki finally awakens at the scene of the bus crash and must choose between running away with Rin like Kyousuke told him or trying to save everyone. If you choose the later, the gas will catch fire and explode, killing them, and Kyousuke will tell you to go back and do it the other way before the game gives you a NonstandardGameOver. The only reason the choice exists is to force the player to choose to leave them behind, which, after [[VideoGameCaringPotential how close you've come to the characters]] and how [[TearJerker heartbreaking]] the last scene was, is ''not'' going to be easy.]]

to:

* Naturally used for some of ''VisualNovel/LittleBusters'''s [[MultipleEndings bad ends]], but by far the most memorable and dramatic example occurs near the end of the game where [[spoiler:Riki finally awakens at the scene of the bus crash and must choose between running away with Rin like Kyousuke told him or trying to save everyone. If you choose the later, the gas will catch fire and explode, killing them, and Kyousuke will tell you to go back and do it the other way before the game gives you a NonstandardGameOver. The only reason the choice exists is to force the player to choose to leave them behind, which, after [[VideoGameCaringPotential how close you've come to the characters]] and how [[TearJerker heartbreaking]] the last scene was, is ''not'' going to be easy.]]easy]].



* In ''VisualNovel/VirtuesLastReward'', breaking Lock #8 requires you to [[spoiler: create a timeline in which you betray Phi. Even Sigma is completely baffled about being forced to betray her.]]

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/VirtuesLastReward'', breaking Lock #8 requires you to [[spoiler: create a timeline in which you betray Phi. Even Sigma is completely baffled about being forced to betray her.]]her]].



* ShutUpAndSitDown has a skit involving someone who's just lost the card game he's playing being asked, "[[http://youtu.be/Ji5Yd_p6Vco?t=10m23s Do you want to play again?]]" [[SubvertedTrope Ultimately subverted]]: [[spoiler:saying 'yes' only results in him losing--again--and being asked the same question...]]

to:

* ShutUpAndSitDown has a skit involving someone who's just lost the card game he's playing being asked, "[[http://youtu.be/Ji5Yd_p6Vco?t=10m23s Do you want to play again?]]" [[SubvertedTrope Ultimately subverted]]: [[spoiler:saying 'yes' only results in him losing--again--and being asked the same question...]]question..]].



*** Without even exploiting glitches: [[spoiler:By this point, you've been given more than enough thermoptic camo to escape from that area without difficulty - if you [[TooAwesomeToUse brought it along]].]]

to:

*** Without even exploiting glitches: [[spoiler:By this point, you've been given more than enough thermoptic camo to escape from that area without difficulty - if you [[TooAwesomeToUse brought it along]].]]along]]]].



** Also, at the end of a No Mercy run, a character asks you to [[spoiler:erase the entire game world]]. If you refuse, the character says that you were never the one in control and just goes ahead anyway on their own, [[spoiler: with a bonus JumpScare for defying them.]]

to:

** Also, at the end of a No Mercy run, a character asks you to [[spoiler:erase the entire game world]]. If you refuse, the character says that you were never the one in control and just goes ahead anyway on their own, [[spoiler: with a bonus JumpScare for defying them.]]them]].



** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', Terra is asked to help the Returners defeat the Empire. If she says yes, she is given an item, but if she says no first and talks to someone else, she receives a simmilar, but differnt item. If she says no three times, the Empire attacks the Returners' base, and Terra ends up swept up in the ensuing battle. From there, the game continues exactly as it did if you said yes.

to:

** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVI'', Terra is asked to help the Returners defeat the Empire. If she says yes, she is given an item, but if she says no first and talks to someone else, she receives a simmilar, similar, but differnt different item. If she says no three times, the Empire attacks the Returners' base, and Terra ends up swept up in the ensuing battle. From there, the game continues exactly as it did if you said yes.



** In Persona 4 The Golden, they take it a step up. [[spoiler: Nanako]] makes you a dish which appears to be BLUE and has a shape most resembling gelatin. She says it's supposed to be chocolate and that the [[LethalChef girls taught her how to make it]]. Expectantly, she looks to you to eat it. The game LITERALLY SAYS YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS.

to:

** In Persona 4 The Golden, ''Persona 4: Golden'', they take it a step up. [[spoiler: Nanako]] makes you a dish which appears to be BLUE and has a shape most resembling gelatin. She says it's supposed to be chocolate and that the [[LethalChef girls taught her how to make it]]. Expectantly, she looks to you to eat it. The game LITERALLY SAYS YOU HAVE NO OPTIONS.



** While fighting Krishna, he'll extend his hand as an offer of peace. For those wondering if this would cause a NonStandardGameOver or "bad ending" of sorts, it won't: If you try to accept his hand, Dagda will pull your hand back and offer you power to get you to stay focused on your mission.

to:

** While fighting Krishna, he'll extend his hand as an offer of peace. For those wondering if this would cause a NonStandardGameOver NonstandardGameOver or "bad ending" of sorts, it won't: If you try to accept his hand, Dagda will pull your hand back and offer you power to get you to stay focused on your mission.



* [[spoiler:Right after her being revealed as the BigBad of]] ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa'', [[spoiler:Junko Enoshima delivers a CallBack to the Dragonlord's offer in ''VideoGame/DragonQuestI'', offering Makoto half her kingdom along with "honor, status, and some of our finest home cooking!". It doesn't matter whether you accept or reject her offer; she's just messing with you.]]

to:

* [[spoiler:Right after her being revealed as the BigBad of]] ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa'', [[spoiler:Junko Enoshima delivers a CallBack to the Dragonlord's offer in ''VideoGame/DragonQuestI'', offering Makoto half her kingdom along with "honor, status, and some of our finest home cooking!". It doesn't matter whether you accept or reject her offer; she's just messing with you.]]you]].



* ''VideoGame/FateExtellaTheUmbralStar'' tells its story with VisualNovel trappings, appropriately for its roots. However, at no point does any choice you make have any impact beyond changing a couple of lines of dialog, and often there's only one choice to select at all. This turns out to be plot-relevant: [[spoiler:the [[PlayerCharacter Master]] has been splintered into their Mind, Body, and Soul, each now a separate entity. You only get choices that result in one outcome because the other facets of their personality, that would present options that push things another way, aren't present to be part of the decision-making process.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/FateExtellaTheUmbralStar'' tells its story with VisualNovel trappings, appropriately for its roots. However, at no point does any choice you make have any impact beyond changing a couple of lines of dialog, and often there's only one choice to select at all. This turns out to be plot-relevant: [[spoiler:the [[PlayerCharacter Master]] has been splintered into their Mind, Body, and Soul, each now a separate entity. You only get choices that result in one outcome because the other facets of their personality, that would present options that push things another way, aren't present to be part of the decision-making process.]]process]].



** There are a few other examples though. For the most part you are given a lot of freedom when dealing with the various alien races, and can do everything from sucking up to them, to threatening them, to mocking them, etc. But in the cases where you ''need'' to befriend a certain race (usually so they will give you one of the game's PlotCoupons) they will simply accept any abuse you heap on them. Go ahead, mock the P'Kunk's resemblance to Toucan Sam. They'll still gladly ally with you and decide to give you a crystal spindle.

to:

** There are a few other examples though. For the most part you are given a lot of freedom when dealing with the various alien races, and can do everything from sucking up to them, to threatening them, to mocking them, etc. But in the cases where you ''need'' to befriend a certain race (usually so they will give you one of the game's PlotCoupons) {{Plot Coupon}}s) they will simply accept any abuse you heap on them. Go ahead, mock the P'Kunk's resemblance to Toucan Sam. They'll still gladly ally with you and decide to give you a crystal spindle.



* This is how [[spoiler:the collapse of the Togami family]] is revealed in ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa''. [[spoiler:When you're asked to figure out the fate of the family, the only option available is "The Togami family fell". Junko even [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] it by declaring Makoto's answer correct before he's ''even said anything'', and pointing out how this "mechanic" makes things so much easier for her]].

to:

* This is how [[spoiler:the collapse of the Togami family]] is revealed in ''VisualNovel/DanganRonpa''. [[spoiler:When you're asked to figure out the fate of the family, the only option available is "The Togami family fell". Junko even [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] {{lampshade|Hanging}}s it by declaring Makoto's answer correct before he's ''even said anything'', and pointing out how this "mechanic" makes things so much easier for her]].
20th Aug '17 8:19:23 AM Snipertoaster
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/AbsoluteDespairGirls'' has one of the final cutscenes where Komaru holds the controller for the Monokumas and if she destroys it, the Monokumas all shut down and the threat to Towa City will vanish. However, you have to refuse several times in order to advance the cutscene. Breaking it at any point before you're supposed to just gives you a [[ItsAWonderfulFailure Bad Ending]]. [[spoiler: Turns out Monaca was trying to bait you into destroying the controller, because the helmets of the BrainwashedAndCrazy Monokuma Kids will explode as well, effectively committing genocide on a bunch of innocent children]]. You know you've reached the right point when the choice reads "'''[[PlayerPunch BREAK THE CONTROLLER / BREAK THE CONTROLLER]]'''".
15th Aug '17 12:17:45 PM lalalei2001
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Videogame/YuGiOhReshefOfDestruction'', when Bandit Keith takes Ishizu hostage, refusing to hand over the Millennium Items will have him threaten her and move you back to the choice box.

to:

* In ''Videogame/YuGiOhReshefOfDestruction'', ''VideoGame/YuGiOhReshefOfDestruction'', when Bandit Keith takes Ishizu hostage, refusing to hand over the Millennium Items will have him threaten her and move you back to the choice box.
3rd Aug '17 9:28:34 AM GrammarNavi
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''AceCombat5TheUnsungWar''. When your squadmates ask you a direct question there are three options: yes, no, and "no response". The choices don't matter (except if ever asked about a song), and the only thing that changes is the response dialogue from your squad.

to:

* ''AceCombat5TheUnsungWar''.''VideoGame/AceCombat5TheUnsungWar''. When your squadmates ask you a direct question there are three options: yes, no, and "no response". The choices don't matter (except if ever asked about a song), and the only thing that changes is the response dialogue from your squad.
This list shows the last 10 events of 419. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ButThouMust