Main But Thou Must Discussion

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05:01:09 AM Oct 16th 2014
edited by
Just looked through the article, and then through the edit history, and somebody has gone through and changed every instance of "force" to "horse" (xkcd reference). It's essentially trolling/wiki vandalism. And if it's here, there's a fair chance other pages will have been defaced as well...

I'll clean this page up later if I can.
06:14:11 AM Oct 16th 2014
Asked for a revert on Ask The Tropers.
09:30:01 AM Dec 27th 2012
Every time I come to this page, the image has a different caption. Can we please just pick one and stick to it?
09:47:57 AM Feb 28th 2012
What if it's just one option? You know picking that option would royally screw everyone but there's no other choice.

For example, someone asks you to sign your name into an ominous looking website that is associated with death. It's an obvious trap but you're forced to anyway with the only choice being "Okay".
05:39:28 AM May 16th 2012
I think we should shorten the "RPG" section to just the part of "Ridiculously common". After all, giving the right answer and not letting you continue until you do is pretty much standard fare for those games.
05:33:30 PM Nov 28th 2011
Can we make a mention of electronic voting systems from the 2000 US Presidental Election? No? Okay.
12:59:26 PM Oct 8th 2011
Removed non-example:
  • In Portal, at the end of the last test chamber, you are told to "place the device on the ground then lie on your stomach with your arms at your sides." There is not a button for either, forcing you to find another option.

04:02:49 AM Aug 18th 2011
I removed the Mass Effect entry from the first section, but I'll expand on the reasoning here. People seem to be thinking that "But Thou Must" is eplicible in all situations where you aren't given a choice, even if that other choice would be taking the Idiot Ball firmly in your hands and commiting suicide with it.

To elaborate on the Mass Effect example, the genophage cure is being created by Saren, who is working for the Omnicidal Reapers. The reason you can't chose to not destroy the facility is because the characters know it will be used against them to destroy all life. There is no logical reason to keep the facility intact, and in fact that is not what the conversation is even remotely about. It's about convincing Wrex why you have to destroy it.

My point is basically that, if we're going to including examples like this, then the trope is going to get filled with examples of the player not being given the option to grasp the idiot ball.
08:01:44 PM Oct 26th 2011
Alright, some more specifcally Mass Effect examples, although I left one in that fit the trope.

As for working for Ceberus, you are given the option to state that Shepard would rather work with the Alliance/Council on this, but it's counter by the Illusive Man saying that it's unlikely they will do anything about stopping the Collector's, and you are given the option to ask them to help against them only to get refuted as them either being too busy to help or convinced it's not their problem.

As for being forced to bring Lirara with you to the Shadow Broker's lair, she's the only member of your party whose dedicated a long peroid of time to studying the Shadow Broker and who knows how to get around some of the defenses.
09:59:21 PM Nov 8th 2011
I would like to debate the removal of the Liara example. The only thing she does in regards to the Broker is open that door at the base, which you didn't even need her to do, just an object in her possession. All the information and resources come from Cerberus.
03:43:38 PM Nov 10th 2011
I see no objection, and it has been over 24 hours. Re-adding the example.
06:21:17 AM Jan 18th 2012
She doesn't only open the door. Cerberus gave her a lead to the Shadow Broker's base (the transmission regarding Feron), but she used her contacts (Sekat) to actually locate it. Cerberus didn't know it. Also, the mission is just as much about rescueing Feron as it is about putting down the Broker. Not taking Liara with you would make just as little sense as doing loyalty missions without the respective party member.
07:59:42 AM Jan 23rd 2012
I see no objection and will remove the example again. Anyway it's less a case of "Shepard is forced to take Liara with him" than a case of "Liara takes Shepard with her".
10:57:46 PM Apr 19th 2011
This page needs to be cleaned up (and damned if I'm the one to do it). There are plenty of obviously misfiled examples (and some of them repeat). Confusion stems from the page being divided into sections that some people aren't taking heed of. Maybe the sectionheads should be made more prominent, or given their own pages????? ?? ?
08:08:27 PM Oct 26th 2011
Yeah, this page is a damn mess. It really needs a clean-up. Any chance we can get some interesed Tropers and break it up?